Pre-hunting Bore Treatment

[HPT]

I usually store my Sharps, Win .38-55 & P-patch muzzleloaders with an oily bore to prevent rust. The first 1 or 2 shots are usually a bit outside of the group when I load and fire starting with the barrel in this condition.

I'd like to be able to go out hunting without taking a couple fouling shots first (don't want to take unnecessary risk getting a rustybarrel) and was wondering if any of you have a technique of treating the bore so the first shot will go into the same group (hopefully without increasing the chance of getting a rusty bore).

[docone31]

I use my patch lube. The high corn oil plus the beeswax makes a good rust preventative.
So far, so good.

[HPT]

Hi Docone,

Does coating the bore with your patch lube ensure you don't need a fouling shot or 2? I could try putting some of the bullet lube I use in the bore with a patch - do you think this would help?

[Shooter6br]

Try to foul the bore previous to hunting I find my Ruger shoots way off if bore is slick

[HPT]

Hi Shooter6br,

I was looking for an alternative to fouling shots that would place the first shot in the same group as say shots #3 - #5. Plus it would be great not to have to clean the barrel everyday of the hunt when you don't see something to shoot at.

I don't know how much damage I'd get from hunting all day with a fouled bore, but I did have a gun I borrowed out come back with a pitted barrel after 1 week of no cleaning. It had a perfect bore prior to that, so now I never borrow out guns.

[Hubertus]

Since I am not a BPCR guy (hopefully will be soon) but read this forum frequently I would like to tell you how I am doing this with my SP guns, I don't know whether this is usable here, but currently I don't see why not. Please educate me, if it's totally nonsense.

Whenever I have cleaned a rifle which of course includes oil in the barrel I run one or two dry patches through when taking it out, at the firing line I first fire an empty cartridge with only the primer (sounds like a 22).
So far I did not have any oil shots (as we call it) after this procedure.

Hubertus

[EOD3]

I use TC Bore Butter for patch lube and to coat the bore when it goes into the safe. I clean at least twice before putting them away... :coffee:

[Gray Fox]

I leave my clean barrels with bore butter patched through them, then run a couple dry patches through prior to the first round. In my sidelock percussion guns I always fire at least two caps after patching to burn oil out of the snail, with the bore pointed near the ground to see that it blows a leaf, meaning the bore is unobstructed.

A flint shooter I knew carried a small bottle of alcohol which he used on a patch after the dry patches to get the last bit of oil out, but it was followed by a greased patch, so I don't know what he actually gained.

In my single shot cartridge guns if I'm shooting black or Pyrodex I use Break Free once the barrel is clean and dry. I get it clean using a dilution of Balistol.

[SharpsShooter]

I usually store my Sharps, Win .38-55 & P-patch muzzleloaders with an oily bore to prevent rust. The first 1 or 2 shots are usually a bit outside of the group when I load and fire starting with the barrel in this condition.

I'd like to be able to go out hunting without taking a couple fouling shots first (don't want to take unnecessary risk getting a rustybarrel) and was wondering if any of you have a technique of treating the bore so the first shot will go into the same group (hopefully without increasing the chance of getting a rusty bore).

No solution for you other than to know your gun well enough to know where the first clean barrel shot will print. My Rolling Block puts the first shot 2" left of center with no change of elevation at 100 yards.

Same problem as you it seems:grin:


SS

[EOD3]

A flint shooter I knew carried a small bottle of alcohol which he used on a patch after the dry patches to get the last bit of oil out, but it was followed by a greased patch, so I don't know what he actually gained.

As I understand it, petroleum based products cause the black powder fouling to become harder and more difficult to remove.

[HPT]

No solution for you other than to know your gun well enough to know where the first clean barrel shot will print. My Rolling Block puts the first shot 2" left of center with no change of elevation at 100 yards.

Same problem as you it seems:grin:


SS

Went out again today. tried removing most of the oil by using 2 dry patches first. No change, First shot 3" high @ 100 yds. Very Consistant. I'm thinking I could try to adjust how much powder I use for the first shot to compensate? Might try to chronograph the first shot.

Here's another question for you Sharpshooter. If your first shot is 2" left of center and mine is 3" high at 100 yds would these be double at 200 yds or still 2" left for you & 3" high for me

[BPCR Bill]

I usually store my Sharps, Win .38-55 & P-patch muzzleloaders with an oily bore to prevent rust. The first 1 or 2 shots are usually a bit outside of the group when I load and fire starting with the barrel in this condition.

I'd like to be able to go out hunting without taking a couple fouling shots first (don't want to take unnecessary risk getting a rustybarrel) and was wondering if any of you have a technique of treating the bore so the first shot will go into the same group (hopefully without increasing the chance of getting a rusty bore).

What ranges are you expecting to shoot at while hunting?? Define "A bit outside of the group". Is it high, low, left right? How big is the group, and at what range? You can expect a round to be perhaps a couple inches (give or take) high at 200 yards on a clean bore. That of course will be magnified at longer ranges. Are you using open sights or tang sights? Regardless if you are using Bore Butter, or some other lubricant, your bore is going to be "slick". There is nothing like the combination of BP fouling and lube in the bore to get your rifle settled in at a match. If you are shooting between 100 and 200 yards, I would not worry about a shot out of a clean barrel. Establish your group and sight settings (or hold with open sights) with a fouled barrel, then determine your hold shooting with a clean barrel.

Regards,
Bill

[HPT]

What ranges are you expecting to shoot at while hunting?? Define "A bit outside of the group". Is it high, low, left right? How big is the group, and at what range? You can expect a round to be perhaps a couple inches (give or take) high at 200 yards on a clean bore. That of course will be magnified at longer ranges. Are you using open sights or tang sights? Regardless if you are using Bore Butter, or some other lubricant, your bore is going to be "slick". There is nothing like the combination of BP fouling and lube in the bore to get your rifle settled in at a match. If you are shooting between 100 and 200 yards, I would not worry about a shot out of a clean barrel. Establish your group and sight settings (or hold with open sights) with a fouled barrel, then determine your hold shooting with a clean barrel.

Regards,
Bill

Expect to hunt up to 200 yds
First shot 3" high @ 100 yds
Group 2.6" @ 100 yds w/no fouling control
Tang sights

BPCR Bill,

You stated:

"There is nothing like the combination of BP fouling and lube in the bore to get your rifle settled in at a match"

My question is has someone found something close to that that won't cause rust.

[BPCR Bill]

HPT, I really don't think so. Matter of fact, you pose a question that I don't think has ever been posed before. I know exactly what you're thinking, though. When I sight in my smokeless hunting rifles before the season I don't clean the bore until after a succesful hunt. (or if absolutely required). It has always been a matter of course for me to clean my BPCR rifles after shooting and leave them that way. As far as hunting with them, my eyes aren't what they used to be. I've never had an issue in the past with shooting game with a clean bore out to 200 yards, be it Elk, Whitetails or Muleys. Like I said, I wouldn't worry about a shot out of a clean barrel as long as you know where it will be. To the best of my knowledge no one has developed nor marketed, nor even mentioned a non-corrosive "fouling compound". Besides, three inches high from point of aim on a clean barrel would certainly put you into the kill zone, and probably be dead on or very close to it at 200.

Regards,
Bill

[Boz330]

The simple answer is clean after each shot like many of the long range shooters do. Personally I shoot a clean shot and then a backup to see if the rifle will stay in the kill zone. Chances of getting more than that in a hunting situation are slim so I clean after 2 shots. I tend not to take shots much past 100yds because at 150 to 200yds, range estimation has to be dead on. A zero at either distance will but you over or under a whitetail with a center hold.
In a nutshell you have to know your rifle. A shot 3" high would probably fall within an unsupported shot type hunting group. The other thing to take into account is that a BPCR probably won't shoot to the same point of aim between sand bags and a normal field position, so practice what you will do in the field. Trigger time will sort out all sorts of things.
On a ML I never pop caps to clear a nipple unless I intend to clean at the end of each day, which I don't. I make sure there is absolutely no oil or grease in the bore or flame channel then load. If it is wet then I seal the cap and run a dry patch down the bore at the end of the day, after removing the cap. The residue from the popped caps can attract moisture. I have literally left a ML loaded for weeks and NEVER had one fail to fire using this method.

Bob

[SharpsShooter]

Went out again today. tried removing most of the oil by using 2 dry patches first. No change, First shot 3" high @ 100 yds. Very Consistant. I'm thinking I could try to adjust how much powder I use for the first shot to compensate? Might try to chronograph the first shot.

Here's another question for you Sharpshooter. If your first shot is 2" left of center and mine is 3" high at 100 yds would these be double at 200 yds or still 2" left for you & 3" high for me

My first shot is left at greater distances as well, but not quite exact multiples. If you are 3" high at 100 I seriously doubt you would be 6" high at 200 with any BPCR. :mrgreen: Gravity Just don't give up. My load is 16" high at 100 to be dead on at 200.

SS

[.45Cole]

Just lube your bore up as normal and on the way up to camp take a couple of pot shots at road signs. This should get your barrel fouled. If people are skilled enough to text while driving I'll bet you could reload a muzzle stuffer and stay above 65mph! :redneck:






Of course I'm just kidding. You would probably have to pull over to reload.

[montana_charlie]

Went out again today. tried removing most of the oil by using 2 dry patches first. No change, First shot 3" high @ 100 yds. Very Consistant. I'm thinking I could try to adjust how much powder I use for the first shot to compensate? Might try to chronograph the first shot.
So, which way would you go to bring the first shot into the group?
Are you aware that a lower muzzle velocity will often make the bullet strike higher?

If your first shot is 2" left of center and mine is 3" high at 100 yds would these be double at 200 yds or still 2" left for you & 3" high for me
The difference in windage would probably double (ignoring the wind factor), but the difference in elevation would just mean your bullet would not strike quite as far below center (with that 100-yard setting).
Do you plan to adjust the sight for a single range, and then take shots from 100 to 200 yards...or do you plan to make elevation changes in the field when the shot presents itself?

CM

[HPT]

So, which way would you go to bring the first shot into the group?
Are you aware that a lower muzzle velocity will often make the bullet strike higher?

CM

I shot three 10-shot groups w/same settings etc except powder charge (65,70 & 75 grains) and the heavier the charge, the higher the group. So I guess I would reduce the charge for the first shot in this particular gun & see where that goes

I realize in a gun with heavier recoil I may have had lower groups with the heavier charge. In this one I'm only using a 361 gr KAL P-Patched .44 cal (.429) so there is not much recoil

The rifle will be sighted for 100 yds with bullet drop & sight settings taped to the side of my rangefinder. If time permits I will make elevation changes, if not I will guesstimate holdover

[jim4065]

Interesting thread. Don't know if you can equate muzzle loaders with BPCR, but my experience with ML says to clean after every shot while grouping and then hunt with a clean bore. Used to store with WonderLube in the bore (after thorough cleaning and rechecking for two weeks), but my .32 sat that way for 4 years and definitely had rust when I pulled it off the wall this summer. Never again. I know that it won't rust with a good petroleum based oil - period. Before loading it I now swab the bore with a dry patch, then load. Never had any asphalt in the bore (that I'm aware of) and never had any rust before I went to WonderLube for storage. I use WonderLube, etc when shooting - but have lost all confidence in it for storage.

[HPT]

I tried unsuccessfully to vary the amount of powder to bring the 1st shot into the "dirty" group. Both increased and decreased charges still shot high, in fact with 5 grains less & 5 grains more than my regular load, these were a full 5" high (and both holes were touching).

As BPCR Bill stated, "There is nothing like the combination of BP fouling and lube in the bore to get your rifle settled in at a match" and now I know that varying the charge will not compensate for this fact.

The only thing to do is to take Boz330 And Jim4065 advice and sight in with a clean barrel and clean between shots. I did this yesterday, sighting in using a bore snake between shots & this is what I'm packing when hunting (don't want to wet bore below freezing temps).

Since I can unscrew the breechplugs of my muzzleloaders, I'll be using snakes thru these as well.

[Lead Fred]

Petrolium based products have never touched my bore.

I clean with T/C 1000+ #13 cleaner. Lube with T/C 1000+ bore butter.

Every shot follows the one before it.

At the end of the year, I do a clean well, then coat the bore with a LIGHT coat of bore butter.

Next January, I can take out the last target I shot, and place the holes in the same place.

[Boz330]

Hpt, for what it's worth I was talking to my hunting, shooting buddy yesterday and he had good luck with pretreating his bore with neatsfoot oil and it kept the 1st shot in the group. Might be worth a try.

Bob