PDA

View Full Version : 45-70



303carbine
04-21-2006, 12:37 AM
I have had several 45-70 Marlin rifles and the best one so far is an 1895 with the Ballard rifling. :-D It shoots cast bullets very accurately and it does not lead up like the micro-groove barrelled Marlin I use to own.:mrgreen: This may be a combination of new riflling, different alloy, slower velocity or a good mix of all the above.:drinks: But whatever it is I'm happy with the performance of the new Marlin.:Fire:

Buckshot
04-21-2006, 04:16 AM
...............303Carbine, welcome to the board. The various Marlin leverguns in 45-70 have a great reputation for strength and accuracy.

.................Buckshot

Ranch Dog
04-21-2006, 07:36 AM
I've have several Marlins... actually I have them all except the 219 Zipper, 32 Special, and 38/55. I consider them all great cast boolit shooters without much difference in the rifling... Micro-Groove or Ballard.

IMHO, the only Marlin with a barrel problem are 444s built prior to 1998. These early rifles have Micro-Groove rifling but it is really the rate of twist that causes problems with the bullets longer than .735". Lead weighs a lot and it is easy to exceed that length in a CB. The instability can be overcome somewhat simply by removing any restrictions in the barrel and fine tuning the individual load. I've shot bullets weighing up to 413-grains (OAL 1.111") in my fire lapped barrel and by paying attention to details of the load.

I've been thinking about rebarreling my 444T. My personal preference would be for a Mircro-Groove barrel with the 1:20 twist. It would be nice to have a barrel without the Owner's Manual roll stamped on it!

SharpsShooter
04-21-2006, 10:32 AM
I have had several 45-70 Marlin rifles and the best one so far is an 1895 with the Ballard rifling. :-D It shoots cast bullets very accurately and it does not lead up like the micro-groove barrelled Marlin I use to own.:mrgreen: This may be a combination of new riflling, different alloy, slower velocity or a good mix of all the above.:drinks: But whatever it is I'm happy with the performance of the new Marlin.:Fire:


303,

Welcome to the board. If you shoot the 45-70, you will find many here that share your enthusiasm for the ol warhorse. My 1960's vintage 1895 loves a 405gr cast boolit driven to 1400fps and when I do my part and am blessed by the cast boolit gods, it will put 5 shots into a 2" group at 100yds. I've heard folks both damn and sing praises for the micro-groove. I have noticed one thing that all the micro-groove sucess stories have in common. It seems that before they even attempted to shoot cast, they had shot a fairly high number of the J-word projectiles and quite possibly this was a contributing factor as their bore surely would have been smoothed up a bit micro-groove or not.

:coffee:

Patty Boomboom
05-20-2006, 10:25 PM
I'm new to rifle shooting/collecting....a long time shotgunner/collector.
I have purchased several rifles in the last 6 months.
One is a 45-70....Winchester model 1886....made in Japan...as yet unfired.
Like to hear some opinions of this rifle.

Also own a Browning BLR in .308, Winchester 1885 low wall in .17HMR, and a Ruger mini 14 ranch in .223.

The last time I shot a rifle was in Vietnam....seem like a million years ago.

Patty Boomboom

Buckshot
05-21-2006, 07:25 AM
.............Patty Boomboom, welcome to the board. That's quite an eclectic spread of rifles you have there :-). The M86 Winchester is a very fine and well made rifle and no doubt. The Winchester Low wall in 17 HMR? Well if it were me I'd like it better in 22 Hornet, but that's a Ford or Chevy deal, ha! The Ruger Mini-14, if in factory trim is the worlds most expensive plinker, yet does a decent job.

In 1982 I bought a factory folder model and that's what it was, a plinker. Then one day some dogs got in with my father in law's sheep. The neighbor guy ran to our house and said to get my 22 there was dogs killing the sheep. I got the Ruger and 2 twenty round mags (what I had in the closet loaded) and went out the back door, slapped in a mag and unfolded the stock.

At the field I saw nothing except 4-5 sheep down on the ground and no dogs. In a few seconds 4 dogs in single file ran out of a clump of scrub maybe 60-70 yards off. Just like a shooting gallery, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop from the front to the back. One was still alive, snarling and snapping as we walked up but couldn't get up. I was holding the Mini by the pistol grip, raised the muzzle and pop!.

One of the dogs had tags so my father in law took them to small claims court and won. He lost 6 sheep total and 2 more had to be doctered for severla weeks . I suppose the Mini-14 justified itself in that situation doing exactly what it was best for. Multiple targets at reasonable range and dispatched with minimal muss and fuss.

..............Buckshot

Four Fingers of Death
05-21-2006, 08:55 PM
I carried one a lot at work (correctional Officer). I am rather fond of them, but alas, they are one of those devices of the devil (semi auto) and we cannot own them.

I had always fancied making a custom set of the weapons that I use at work, all with my serial number. A 3" Heavy Bbl Model 10 S&W, 870 Remington shotgun and 223 Mini 14.

Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to own any of them now:

Model 10: 4" Bbl minimum
870: Pump action shotguns banned
Mini 14: Semi Auto rifles banned.

Bugger!

PS, Welcome aboard.
Mick.

wmitty
05-21-2006, 09:29 PM
Mick; you serious about no pump shotguns?

Four Fingers of Death
05-22-2006, 04:02 AM
Mick; you serious about no pump shotguns?

I sure am, after the massacre in Tasmania (1998?) Semi autos (all types) and pump action shotguns were banned. They pbviously didn't know about pump action rifles, because they are still legal (go figure, you can't have a 410 pump gun, but you can have a pump rifle in any calibre that you fancy.

You can get a license to have these things for feral pest destruction and lots of farmers have these licenses, but centrefire semi auto rifles are very hard to get licenses for.

PITA, but before they started restricting them, I had 2 good 22s and 2 centrefire hunting rifles, an ex mil rifle, a 22 pistol and a 357pistol and one pump shottie. I now have 35 various rifles, 2 shotguns and 9 pistols. That worked.

Bad Ass Wallace
05-22-2006, 05:14 AM
Don't forget the pistols; must have a 100mm barrel for revolvers or 122mm for semi auto's. And nothing over 38cal unless you apply for special endorsement on your licence to shoot silly-wets or cowboy.
Lucky I'm proven to be no threat to society with my 10.5" Ruger Superblackhawk that I use for cowboy:Fire:
The way we are headed, this may be the handgun of the future
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/GreatPistolLoads.jpg

floodgate
05-22-2006, 11:22 AM
I suspect the reason for no pump shotguns is that someone remembered that old "money winner": "Betcha I can dump five shells outa my ('97) Winchester faster than you can with yer fancy (Browning) auto." You could, too, with (a) no disconnector on the '97, vs. (b) the long-recoil action on the Browning. One friend said a shooting buddy of his dad's used to carry his '97 with the action open, finger on the trigger; when he'd flush a bird, he would swing the gun up, slam the pump handle forward and get the shot off before anyone else could react. Makes a good story, anyhow.

Glad to see you back, BA!

floodgate

Uncle R.
05-22-2006, 05:31 PM
I have one of the first "new" 1895 Marlins they made - with the straight grip stock and micro-groove rifling. Back in those days I didn't know that they wouldn't work with cast bullets so I just loaded some up and tried 'em out. They shot GREAT and they still do...
I used the RCBS 405 gr. and cast them harder than a landlord's heart. (Straight linotype.) Loaded over a stompin' charge of 3031 they went over the chronograph screens at about 1750 and that gun would "kill on the front end and cripple on the back." :roll:
Initial results were pretty good so I mounted a scope on the gun and sandbagged it to see what they could do. At fifty yards they would make a ragged hole. I never found a jack - oops - I mean a j-word load that would shoot better.
I only wish I could figure out a soft lead paper patched load that would shoot like that. It would be a super brush load for deer.

Dale53
05-22-2006, 06:21 PM
UncleR.
Have you read Paul Mathews book, "The Paper Jacket"? It has lots of information on making and shooting paper patched bullets and specific data for the Marlin 45/70.

Well worth its modest price if you are interested in paper patch bullets.

Dale53

lovedogs
05-22-2006, 06:31 PM
Ha, ha! I think some of those politicians should be shot with some of those Preparation H bullets as they are mostly pains in the _ss. They sure aren't running a government "by and for the people."

45 2.1
05-22-2006, 06:32 PM
I have one of the first "new" 1895 Marlins they made - with the straight grip stock and micro-groove rifling. Back in those days I didn't know that they wouldn't work with cast bullets so I just loaded some up and tried 'em out. They shot GREAT and they still do...
I used the RCBS 405 gr. and cast them harder than a landlord's heart. (Straight linotype.) Loaded over a stompin' charge of 3031 they went over the chronograph screens at about 1750 and that gun would "kill on the front end and cripple on the back." :roll:
Initial results were pretty good so I mounted a scope on the gun and sandbagged it to see what they could do. At fifty yards they would make a ragged hole. I never found a jack - oops - I mean a j-word load that would shoot better.
I only wish I could figure out a soft lead paper patched load that would shoot like that. It would be a super brush load for deer.

In your rifle, thats a pretty easy formula. I cast the Lyman 457191 out of pure lead, size it in a LEE 0.454" push thru die, patch it with two wraps of 9# onionskin, lube with Matthews formula patch lube and load it in front of 30 gr. of SR 4759 with a Rem 9 1/2 LR primer and lightly crimp into the shrunken spot left by the top lube groove. Mine shoot that way at 100 yds, yours should equal it.