Trail Boss for heavy 45 Colt culled boolits

[jandbn]

I have some .452 325 gr LBT PB culled boolits I would like to let family members plink with. The boolits were dropped and most were dinged up. Unfortunately, I don’t cast as of yet. Otherwise the culls would get thrown back in the pot; Thus the culling.

The thought is to possibly use Trail Boss in reduced loads for the culled boolits in a Ruger 45 Colt Bisley 5 1/2”. I currently do not have any fast powder for reduced loads other than TB. (TB is for reduced 250 grain and under plinking loads in the Ruger for the family members.)

I can’t find any TB load data for heavy boolit 45 Colt loads on Hodgen’s website. The heaviest weight boolit published by Hodgen for the Colt with TB is 250 grains.

Edited to add picture: (See attached thumbnail for 250 gr 45 Colt load from Hodgen.)

However, Hodgen does publish load data for the 454 Casull and a 325 grain.

Edited to add picture: (See attached thumbnail for 325 gr 454 Casull load from Hodgen)

NOTE: Hodgen’s Colt data is PSI but the 454 is CUP.

PLEASE tell me if my thought process is way out in left field!!!! Would using the same % volume ratio of powder and air space in the 454 provide approximately the same peak pressure in a Colt? If this load scenario is plausible, the load should ONLY be used in a Ruger Blackhawk/Bisley as pressure may be over SAAMI spec for the 45 Colt!!

Using Lee Volume Measure Density (VMD) for Trail Boss of .2172 (http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/VMD'S.pdf), I was able to calculate the % of powder and air volume in the 454 load and extrapolate the data to a Colt load. Below is data used for calculation. Note: case water volume and boolit case displacement volume and COL are examples ONLY.

454 CASULL
Case volume of water: 45.7 grains or 2.96 cc’s
Boolit Diameter: .452”
Boolit Weight: 325 grains
Boolit Length: .825”
Boolit Nose to Crimp: .390”
Seating Depth: .435”
COL: 1.773”

45 COLT
Case volume of water: 42.6 gr or 2.76 cc’s
Boolit Diameter: .452”
Boolit Weight: 325 grains
Boolit Length: .825”
Boolit Nose to Crimp: .390”
Seating Depth: .435”
COL: 1.675”

1 gram = 15.4324 grains or 1 grain = .06478 grams
1 gram water = 1 cc water
Lee Volume Density for Trail Boss = .2172

Lee’s VMD conversion is from cc to grains. Most calculations are metric because it is easier than going back and forth between metric and English measurements. (Excel was used for calculation in the table below in case you may be wondering about the lengthy numbers.)

After calculating powder volume % and air space volume % for the 454, the % was used to basically “reverse” calculate the powder and air space for the Colt. Powder and air space cc’s were calculated from the %’s based on the net cc of the case. (Sorry for the poor looking table below-I was originally in an Excel table but I couldn't get it formated correctly.:cry:)

Edited to add picture: (See attached thumbnail for conversion table.)

Provided pressure with the calculated Colt load approximates the 454 published data along with John Linebaugh publishing Ruger safe Colt loads up to 32,000 CUP (http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm (http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm)), and velocity provides for a stable boolit, are there any nay-sayers? Again, PLEASE tell me if my logic is flawed and explain where I went wrong!!!

Question: If the above calculated MIN load of 4.4 grains of TB for the Colt is somewhat accurate and produces the same pressure as in the 454, what is the consensus of a starting load of 4.0 grains and the heavy boolit?

[freedom475]

Use of this info in a Ruger should yield no problems..

When I first started trying Trail Boss (TB).. I checked around for data for the 457L and found none...A friend of mine told me he contacted the manufacture and they told him that as long as you don't compress the powder than you should be fine...He listed some case volume % info as a starting point but I have forgotten that part:roll:..

I just measured the boolit from base to crimp, put powder into the case and left some air space between the boolit and the powder, I just weighed that charge and considered it max. I have seen where a member here used this powder to run his 475L at 500fps...so I suppose minumum is where the boolits sticks in the barrel:mrgreen:

So Armed with all the mathamatics you posted I would say you'll be just fine.....The idea behind this powder was that it is so bulky you can't get enough in a case to cause too much problem...Just Don't Compress It!

Not sure if you will be able to stabilize that heavy of a boolit at such slow velocity but it would still make for fun plinking at closer ranges.

[dk17hmr]

Just Don't Compress It!

Bingo.

[jandbn]

Through the research I did, I had read many times not to compress TB. But I would think in the some instances, whether 45 Colt or another cartridge, a case full (no air space and not compressed) of TB under a heavy bullet would cause a pressure spike over and above what some handguns are capable of standing up to.

[jandbn]

Just a follow up on the Trail Boss. I ran three different charges with the 325 gr. culled bullets using new Starline brass and WLP primers. I started with 4.0 grs. What a mess! The cases did not expand and seal in the chamber and I had powder residue everywhere. Next was 5.0 grs. Same mess. Upped to 5.5 grs. still messy and dirty. Maybe some once fired cases used with 22 gr of H110 and "neck" sized along with 6 grains of TB will solve the problem. Accuracy was pretty much non-existant with the TB, but I expected that using the culled bullets.

Recoil in the BisHawk with the 4 grs of TB was almost non-existant. At 5 grs. of TB recoil was still almost non-existant. 5.5 started to produce a hair's worth of recoil, but the wife sure liked 'em! She also tried one round of H110 @ 21.4 grs. and said she didn't want any more of that. Less than 10 seconds later, she sat back down at the table and shot one more. That sealed the deal. No more heavier loads for her :)

[geargnasher]

Just a follow up on the Trail Boss. I ran three different charges with the 325 gr. culled bullets using new Starline brass and WLP primers. I started with 4.0 grs. What a mess! The cases did not expand and seal in the chamber and I had powder residue everywhere. Next was 5.0 grs. Same mess. Upped to 5.5 grs. still messy and dirty. Maybe some once fired cases used with 22 gr of H110 and "neck" sized along with 6 grains of TB will solve the problem. Accuracy was pretty much non-existant with the TB, but I expected that using the culled bullets.

Recoil in the BisHawk with the 4 grs of TB was almost non-existant. At 5 grs. of TB recoil was still almost non-existant. 5.5 started to produce a hair's worth of recoil, but the wife sure liked 'em! She also tried one round of H110 @ 21.4 grs. and said she didn't want any more of that. Less than 10 seconds later, she sat back down at the table and shot one more. That sealed the deal. No more heavier loads for her :)

Reminds me of Clint Eastwood's experience with the .44 during the filming of "Dirty Harry". He initiall wanted to film with full-house loads, but after a few takes quickly changed his mind and went with .44 spl loads instead. I don't own a .44 mag but have shot and tuned loads for many and I don't care to shoot them very often. I have several .45 Colts and I can shoot any of them all day with pleasure, even with loads that rival the energy levels of the best .44 Magnum factory loads.

Thanks for the follow up, I was considering buying some TB to try for plinking, but looks like you saved me 25 bucks! I'll stick with 5.4 gr. Titegroup and 250-grainers for an accurate, consistent cream-puff load.

Gear

[jh45gun]

I like the standard 8 grains of Unique with a 250/255 grain bullet. Pretty much does all I want and still powerful enough to kill a whitetail if need be.