dirty bullets/ gun jamming

[mwohlenhaus]

I have been running NRA 50/50 through a lyman 45 sizer with 200 Gr. Lee SWC with BB. My question is this, The lubing process is messy, and makes a mess out of the base of the bullet which I believe is causing my 1911 to get dirty real fast and after 150 to 200 rounds the slide will occasionally not fully lock shut(about an eighth inch open) not allowing the weapon to fire. I used to shoot LaserCast bullets and never had this problem. The only thing I changed in my load was the bullet. Would going to a harder lube change things, or I have also read of someone de-BB'ing the mold with a drill press. This would prevent the lube buildup on the bevel. Any advice, suggestions, or similar problems from anybody? I have also read about someone here making a ram for the bottom of the sizer to match the base of the bullet. Thank you in advance for any info.

[44man]

I have been running NRA 50/50 through a lyman 45 sizer with 200 Gr. Lee SWC with BB. My question is this, The lubing process is messy, and makes a mess out of the base of the bullet which I believe is causing my 1911 to get dirty real fast and after 150 to 200 rounds the slide will occasionally not fully lock shut(about an eighth inch open) not allowing the weapon to fire. I used to shoot LaserCast bullets and never had this problem. The only thing I changed in my load was the bullet. Would going to a harder lube change things, or I have also read of someone de-BB'ing the mold with a drill press. This would prevent the lube buildup on the bevel. Any advice, suggestions, or similar problems from anybody? I have also read about someone here making a ram for the bottom of the sizer to match the base of the bullet. Thank you in advance for any info.
The BB is a problem and it is best to remove it for better accuracy. Lube on it sure does lead to a dirty gun. So does some powders.
I just don't like any Alox either. I still say it burns and leaves ash behind.
I would buy some of Lar's Carnauba Red lube or mix some Carnauba flakes in your lube. That should help. But you do need to keep lube off the bevel.

[Shiloh]

Find a .45 cal gas check, or make something similar to put in the base of the size die. The bevel base will fit into it and be protected from the lube. Works for my .38 cal boolits.

Shiloh

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

What type of crimp are you using? I have in the past had a problem with the exact same scenario. I was due to have too much roll crimp. Most of the experienced shooters on here will suggest the use of a taper crimp. But I found if I backed off the roll crimp, I eliminated the problem. Check your case diameter at the crimp of the effected round and see if you aren't actually bulging the cases just enough to cause problems when your chamber gets dirty. A 1911 should function whether it is dirty or not if the ammunition is with in spec.

Regards,
Everett

[yondering]

I have been running NRA 50/50 through a lyman 45 sizer with 200 Gr. Lee SWC with BB. My question is this, The lubing process is messy, and makes a mess out of the base of the bullet ...

The gas check suggestion above sounds good for keeping lube off the bevel base, although I haven't tried that. My method is to use the petals from a shotgun wad; hold a piece of the wad petal over the die, put the boolit on it, and push down on the sizer handle. It will act like a cookie cutter, and the plastic wad petal will form to the base of the boolit. It stays in place (unless you are raising the ram too far) and has worked for me for several hundred boolits at a time before needing a new piece of wad petal.

Also, if your lube process is really messy, you may have your lubersizer adjusted wrong. You could also switch lubes, but I've found that the harder lubes like Carnuba Red don't work as well in my guns. I really like Bullshop's Speed Green for the 45 ACP, it works great and I get no leading.

[DCP]

What type of crimp are you using? I have in the past had a problem with the exact same scenario. I was due to have too much roll crimp. Most of the experienced shooters on here will suggest the use of a taper crimp. But I found if I backed off the roll crimp, I eliminated the problem. Check your case diameter at the crimp of the effected round and see if you aren't actually bulging the cases just enough to cause problems when your chamber gets dirty. A 1911 should function whether it is dirty or not if the ammunition is with in spec.

Regards,
Everett




I thought you didnt any roll crimp 45acp or 9mm,380 etc. It head spaces off the front of the case. So it may be unsafe

I use a taper crimp

[yondering]

I was going to ask where he found a roll crimp die for the 45 ACP anyway? All that I know of are taper crimp dies.

[SPRINGFIELDM141972]

My standard die set does not put a taper crimp. It puts a roll type crimp and if you set the crimp to tight it will bulge the case in that area.

Regards,
Everett

[billyb]

By all means try Lar's carnauba red. great lube! I shoot several thousand BB out of a magma mold in my Kimbers. When i used the 450 luber I kept a paper towel handy to wipe the base of the boolits as they came out of the die. Some of the people here use a piece of the styro foam take trays on top of the ram to help keep the BB clean. The older die sets all came with a roll crimp seater die. I purchesed two sets that were that way. I learned about the taper crimp dies from a 1911 smith that went by the handle of" The Greek" in Tulsa Ok. when I had my colt series 80 throated to accept the SWC boolits.I now use a Star to lube and size my handgun boolits. Bill

[jdgabbard]

My standard die set does not put a taper crimp. It puts a roll type crimp and if you set the crimp to tight it will bulge the case in that area.

Regards,
Everett

The same thing with my RCBS 9mm dies. If you set it to crimp it will put a roll crimp and not a taper.... But they seem to feed and cycle. They just don't look purty...:sad:

[hyoder]

I wipe the base of bullets on a paper towel on by bench. most lubes on the base of bullets will contaminate the powder that contacts it, especially alox, remove it from the base. the contaminated powder does not burn but leaves it as residue in the throat and barrel.

[243winxb]

Your lube is OK.Take lube off by using a fluffy towel, bullets bevel sinks into towel, one turn , lube gone. Are you shaving lead on bullet seating? Flare case mouth more. The little slivers of lead will build up in your chamber, mixed with dirt from powder and lube. Sometimes the gun will like .451" dia. bullets over .452"
I was going to ask where he found a roll crimp die for the 45 ACP anyway? All that I know of are taper crimp dies. Lee seating dies taper first then roll crimp. RCBS has die sets of 45acp, roll or taper, your choice.

[mwohlenhaus]

I have RCBS taper crimp dies, and I have noticed that there is a ring of lead around the case neck on some bullets after seating and crimping, I just thought that it was due to the varied thickness in case wall because I don't bother sorting brass. It is not on all of them, but I have definately noticed it on some. Overall it just seems like there is a greater buildup of gunk on the feed ramp and on breech face than when I was shooting the Laser Cast. So the powder contamination theory is plausible. So do I need to go with a lighter crimp in conjunction with more flare on case mouth when I try that avenue, or just try the flaring first? Thank you for the quick responses. On the Luber, I have it adjusted so it hits the top two holes of the die, however I think where most of my mess coming from is that when the lube groove is aligned with the top holes in the die, it is allowing the next run of holes to have access to the cavity caused by the BB. I have never had any problems with accuracy with swc's in fact I find them way more accurate than I can regularily shoot. (how do you know you ask?) well I get a good string once in a while and know what the gun is capable of in my hands

[243winxb]

So do I need to go with a lighter crimp in conjunction with more flare on case mouth when I try that avenue, or just try the flaring first? Seat the bullet & taper crimp in separate operations, 2 dies. Try flaring/belling a case a little more. Measure bell/case mouth. Run the empty case into the seating die just a tiny amount. Measure the bell, has it change? Keep doing this checking how much the die is closing the mouth. The die might be on the tight side, needing some removal of metal from the inside. My RCBS die has the seating stem turned all the way down so the case enters the seating die as little as possible and this is after removing some metal from the inside. Then i crimp in a separate taper crimp die. You could try a lighter crimp, just take out the bell. Also different length cases will crimp different. Make sure the adjustment on your sizer is correct. The correct bullet diameter has to be the whole length of the bullet.

[XWrench3]

IF you decide to remove the bb from the mold, i would NOT do it in a drill press. many drill presses spin drills a few thousands out of round. if it is doing that, it could easily ruin your mold. plus getting your mold EXACTLY center in the press, is highly unlikely. either send it out to be done, or just buy a different mold. yes, there is someone out there, who makes custom sizer rams, which, if you like the bb bullets, might be the easiest way to go. i do not however, know his name/contact info.

[jonk]

I did not know the 200 gr Lee SWC was a BB unless they make different ones. Mine certainly isn't.

I never got the point of a BB bullet.

You have a few options.
1. Remove the BB.
2. Get another mold.
3. Tumble lube

[Echo]

Many good comments here, and good suggestions. I believe the lube is the problem. I had the same problem with my wad gun. It simply requires cleaning after a match. The NRA 50/50 lube is danged good, but I will agree - it's messy, and goobers up your gun. Having BB boolits exacerbates the problem.

Jonk - BB boolits are easier to start in the case when seating.

[jonk]

If you say so. That's why God made case flare dies.

[243winxb]

The Lyman 200gr lswc BB is the most accurate for me with 3.8gr. Alliant Bullseye. Plain flat basebullets can be just as accurate if you push them faster than a target load. Having to wipe off the extra 50/50 alox is a pain. The Lyman round nose is listed in the photo at the wrong weight, should be 225gr., they drop from the mould closer to 230gr. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/th_castbullets.jpg (http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/castbullets.jpg)