MMA10MM's 44 Keith

[Patrick L]

I finally got to cast a few last weekend. There a few bugs to be worked out, but these are typical new mold bugs. I think we have a winner.

I think this is a nice looking bullet. Mine weigh about 260 grs from 20:1 WW tin. They are dropping fat, exactly what I wanted. Mine go about .434 - .435".

I was getting a bit of sticky dropping, but I find a mold needs a session or two to really break in. I lightly Leemented this morning with cast slugs, colgate toothpaste, and my cordless drill. We'll see how the next session goes.

I am finding the rear alignment pin really sticks in the bushing while casting, enough that I need to lightly tap the FRONT pin closed while trying to open the mold to keep things parallel. I might hit the rear pin with some 600 wet or dry and "shoeshine" it for just a pass or two to try and smooth things up.

Sorry I have no pics yet, nor have I shot any. I've been busy at work, and when I do get free time I've been working on honing out my sizer die, since I need a larger size than is available off the shelf.

[Patrick L]

OK I managed to load and shoot a few today, and snap a few pics. First off here's our boolit, along with one loaded in a .44 Special
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Bullets/GunStuff020.jpg

I only tried 2 loads, 14.0 and 14.5 gr of 2400. I'm following the path I took with the Lyman 429421, but now that my bullets actually fit (meaning not hopelessly undersize) I'm hoping for better results. I will work up slowly though. I think I made it up to 16 gr with the Lyman, so that's where I'm heading. Also, I've opened up my sizer die to .432, and I'm taking that slowly too. I think I'm aiming to reach about .433".

Anyhow, I shot my 4 inch M24-3 off of the bench at 25 yds. Here's the group with 14.0 gr. This is about as good as I can shoot a 4 inch gun
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Bullets/GunStuff021.jpg

Pretty good I think. The 14.5 gr goup wasn't as pretty, there was a definite flyer I called, but the other 5 clustered about the size of these 6, maybe a smidge bigger. Again, with a 4 inch gun and my eyes its definitely me, not the gun or load.

Maybe next weekend I'll get to shoot a few more. I'll keep the board informed.

[targetshootr]

Mine look good but are lighter and thinner, around .430, but that's been the case with all my Lee molds lately. I just sent back a 260 gr 45 I wish I'd tried to fix myself. I'm going to try the toothpaste trick and some others things before I return any more of em.

[Patrick L]

Gee, with all the people who got this mold, coupled with the long wait, I'd have thought my little range report would have raised just a bit more interest...

[hunter64]

Gee, with all the people who got this mold, coupled with the long wait, I'd have thought my little range report would have raised just a bit more interest...

I will add to your report when ever the mold gets here, sometimes the post office is extremely slow and other times I get packages from Florida to Northern Alberta, Canada in 5 days.

I am anxious for this one and I keep checking the mail first thing when I get home from work. lol

[69daytona]

I have cast with mine a couple days after I got it, the bullets came out nice at 260gr +or- 2gr.
I cast about 500 in just a few hours all bullets have nice sharp edges and filled out real nice.
Havent had time to shoot anything for weeks after tearing some back muscles working on a Packard V12.
I like the mold and what comes out of it, cant wait to shoot these now. I have mine sized at .430 which is what my chamber throats are on my Dan Wesson and all the outher stuff that sise shoot very well so I dont expect anything less from this one.

[targetshootr]

I've tried 14 gr 2400 with that boolit in my 5 1/2" 44 spl Ruger and then went to 13 gr. Hard to imagine Keith using, what, 17 gr? And in a first gen Colt no less. The 13 gr load was also used last year in a lettered 1950 Target 44 spl once owned by Keith that now belongs to a local friend.

But 99.9% of the time I use 6 gr or 6.5 gr Universal.

[Patrick L]

Well, I worked up to 16.0 gr of 2400 with our boolit, and I'm pretty pleased. I know Brian Pearce went up to 17.0 gr in his famous Handloader article on the .44 Spl "power levels," but I'd rather stay prudent. 16.0 gr gave me an actual (chronographed, not estimated) average velocity of 1058 fps from my four inch M24. That's more than enough for any whitetail I've ever seen.

It shot like this from the bench at 25 yards

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb157/patrickl_01/Bullets/GunStuff022.jpg

This is about as well as I can see the sights. I think I'll cut the load another half grain to practice, and I'll carry the full 16 in the woods.

Is anyone else shooting these boolits at all? How about more reports and pictures?

[WARD O]

Nice report Patrick - thank you. I have done one session casting with this mould so far. I used up some misc alloy that is mostly pure lead and mixed in a little tin so it was somewhere around 20/1 but somewhat unknown for certain. I made up about 180 boolits and then sized them half and half at .430 and .432 using LBT blue. I've been playing with some N330 lately as my dealer has a few pounds at a really good price and it is a rather clean burning powder. The Viht manual lists 44 spec loads with a 267 gr Keith bullet and 7 grains at a little over 900 fps and so far it seems to be doing a pretty good job. I also loaded up another batch with the old 7.5 grain Unique load. I was more interested in which guns liked which diameter at the moment. Mostly my results were pleasing and pretty much the same as I had been getting with other similar bullets. Nothing really unusual or drop dead outstanding happened. The nice thing here is now I can make my own and with this mould I can make a lot of them fairly quickly!

Shooting my Ruger 5.5" FT 44 Special I was getting very similar 25 yard results to yours. My Ruger did not seem to show a marked preference to bullet diameter. My 6" M29 Classic did seem to like these boolits in .432 and shot them very well. My Freedom Arms M97 would not chamber ammo loaded with the .432 bullets.

I did not notice any leading in any of the four guns I was shooting - M29 6", BH 5.5", Early M29 4", and FA M97 6.5"

Ward

[Gunsmoke]

My new (arrived in September) Lee .44 Keith (as it is handwritten on the box) is a great mold. The parting line is hard to find which usually indicates that the boolit is round which was confirmed by the mic. When received, the blocks stuck together but it was easy to determine which pin was out too far and .002" adjustment was all it took to fix the problem. Also, once in awhile the rear (bottom) band will tear or break loose and fold back in the Star lubrisizer. This may be my fault for having too much lube pressure or maybe that band was somehow fractured as it came out of the mold. I run the boolits nose first into the Star using a flat punch.

Cast diameter is .432 with my soft alloy. I have loaded some for indoor shooting but will put this boolit to the real test this spring when I don't have to use snow shoes to make it to the 50 yard line at our OD range.

[WARD O]

While playing in the basement yestereday due to inclement weather, I tried running some of these bullets loaded in R-P 44 mag brass thru my Marlin 1894 44 mag. The cartridge OAL is too great - the carrier can not lift the bullet. Load them in Special brass and they work fine. I then also tried a few Keith bullets cast from Miha's 429421 and the Marlin digested these with out problem. There seems to be about .040 difference in nose to crimp groove length here and they just don't work.

Ward

[fatnhappy]

believe it or not I finally got around to working with this mould. It needed serious leementing but since I was in need of a substantial qty of .44 keiths I really didn't have any options. All my other .44 moulds are 2 cavity.

After a couple light lapping sessions with some 400 grit clover I hit the pot this weekend. I loaded up 1500 rnds of ammo and still have a couple hundred left, sized and lubed.

I spent most the weekend casting and loading outside while my son shot his bow. One of my buddies was over for a bit.


http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h152/lhsjfk3t/005-3.jpg

[MakeMineA10mm]

Finally..... Going to post a report on my own boolit! :D

Mine are not perfectly round out of my mould (close, about .001-.0015 out), but they are nice and fat:
http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=179&pictureid=1299
As you can see, they weigh about 267 grs out of my alloy of WW+2% tin.

As far as loading them for lever guns, my Marlin 1894 digests them OK (an occasional "double-clutch" of the lever, about once or twice per magazine full), but I've found that if I crimp about half-way onto the front driving band, they run slicker than owl snot through my Marlin. Now, my Winchester 1894 Trapper is another story... No joy getting these to work no matter what in it -finally decided to save the aggravation and just single load them.

In 44 Mag., I have 2 loads, a Keith load with a different but similar powder to 2400 - AA#9, and a skelton load, again with a powder substitute - W231 instead of Unique. Here are the details:

Skeeter load - 267gr Hvy Keith, Top Brass, WLP, 7.5gr W231, crimped in groove:
S&W 629 (5" barrel)- 893, 884, 888, 897, 892 (avg.: 891 fps)
S&W 629 (6" barrel)- 920, 923, 936, 914, (avg.: 923 fps)
Ruger Flttop (6.5" barrel)- 934, 927, 935, 955, 940 (avg.: 938 fps)
Win Trppr (16" barrel)- 1067, 1081, 1067, 1064, 1070 (avg.: 1070 fps)
Marlin 94 (20" barrel)- 1098, 1085, 1108, 1100, 1085 (avg.: 1095 fps)

Keith load - 267gr Hvy Keith, Top Brass, WLP, 18.5gr AA#9, crimped in groove:
S&W 629 (5" barrel)- 1212, 1293, 1248, 1281, 1207 (avg.: 1248 fps)
Ruger Flttop (6.5" barrel)- 1267, 1334, 1292, 1285, 1310 (avg.: 1297 fps)
Win Trppr (16" barrel)- 1531, 1543, 1545, 1541, 1542 (avg.: 1540 fps)
Marlin 94 (20" barrel)- 1586, 1592, 1582, 1565, 1579 (avg.: 1581 fps)

The Skeeter load is sweet to shoot in any gun. Minimal blast and recoil, very accurate (cloverleafs at 25 yards), and powerful enough for 90% of what a gun is needed for.

The Keith load, even though it is not a book max load, is quite powerful. No pressure signs in any of the 4 guns tested with it. After looking at the velocities achieved, I think I'm going to drop the load to 18.0grs, which should be around 1200 in the 5" pistol and still give me 1500 out of the rifles. Accuracy was also good with this load. At 100yds out of the carbines, it was shooting around 2-4". (Not bad for my eyes with open, buckhorn sights...). Definitely within "minute-of-deer"!!!
:cbpour:

[375RUGER]

I recently acquired this gb mould and have been doing a little casting. I had to do some lee-menting of the vent lines because the middle cavities wouldn't fill out the front band. Front band fills out now but I still have to "swirl pour" the middle cavities to get the base to fill out.
Mine is casting at 263g, 265 with the grease. Boolits are a little out of round, about .0005", with one or two of the cavities throwing .001" out. Size is running about .433". I'm not sizing them, loading as-cast.
I have AC'd some and WD'd some. couple days out of the mould they are about 9-10BHN, but in a couple weeks my AC'd are at 14BHN. (Today this boolit penetrated 32" of my homemade ballistic stuff+5 gallon milk jugs of water, with no deformation at all)( I was at least expecting the nose to be a little deformed)
My alloy is 2.1%Sn, 1.8%Sb,.1%As, balance lead
Loob is a lotak substitute with very small amount of opti-lube added.
I got to the range today to put some holes in the paper. I had several loads of W231. I finally decided that 7.6g W 231 was the one I'd go with.
This is a 25yd target. 6 shots with the flier measures 1.900" I will load up some more
Gun is 4-5/8" SBH 44 Mag. Cylinder opened to .432".
Now I'm going to HP 2 or 3 of the cavities and I should have a real nice hunting boolit.

[375RUGER]

I wanted a 250g HP and that is exactly what I got. This is throwing 248g -252g right now. The HP is .350" deep with 25* angle, .198" diameter at the nose, I'll post range results when I can.

[MakeMineA10mm]

WooHoo! Glad your enjoying it, and nice job on the Hollow-pointing! They look awesome!

I'm still enjoying mine. I keep a couple thousand of these on hand all the time under the bench, so, as soon as 44 brass turns up empty, I'm ready to re-fill them.

I'm not surprised your testing ended up at the load you indicate. My own testing with this boolit showed that, depending on the lot number's burning speed, w231 gets much less enjoyable to shoot around 8.0-8.3 grs (right around where the boolit goes supersonic in this particular load).

To add to my prior post's chrono data, I was able to try my "Skeeter load" out of my new 16" Marlin 1894P (ported), and it averaged 1052 fps out of it with excellent accuracy. (The new-to-me Marlin has a nice receiver-mounted peep sight, so it shoots everything well.) (Oh, and the 1894P feeds this boolit better than my 1894SS does, so I'm one happy camper!!!)

Please let us know how the HPs work out! (I may have to get this done to my mould...) :smile:

[375RUGER]

My mule went to a new home yesterday :-( and I needed some range time so I played hookey this morning. :Fire:

Needed to paper test my HPs.
First though I needed to season the bore of the Super Blackhawk Hunter with the 265g MMA10MM Keith Style and my LOTAC substitute.
I made up a load with 8.0g of W231 and CCI300 primers.
This time I took my Super Blackhawk Hunter 7.5" and mounted my Leupold 2X on top I hardly ever use the scope unless I'm working up a load. I have not modified the cylinder on this one. It mics out at .4310-.4315.
I had 5 rounds for it and 5 for the 4-5/8" SBH. Pic below-25yds-rested on bags. I forgot to measure this one, but the orange spot is 1.25".
I shot the 5 through the SBH off hand and not being very careful.
I pushed a dry patch down the bore to clean powder residue and inspected after each group. In the SBHH this 8.0g/W231 load left a few little spots of lead just past the forcing cone. I left it there since it was such a small amount.
Now onto the good stuff H110

loaded up 21.0g, 21.5g, 22.0g, and 22.5g all with CCI350.
First up was the 21.5 at 25yds through the SBHH, .810" group, 6 shots. That made me smile. I checked the bore after a dry patch, the leading that was there before was gone, nice.
I was pleased enough that I decided to do the 22.5g at 25yds and do the 21.0 and 22.0 at 50yds.
I made a scope adjustment and shot the 22.5g/H110. I'm thinking, as you can see from the target that the scope had to settle just a little bit. I still ended up with a 1.625" group. No lead in the bore, insert smiley.
No more scope adjustments.
At 50 yds the 21.0g did OK but I didn't measure it since one shot was off the edge of the paper, but it was a decent group.
Pic of the 22.0g is below. I only had 5 shots each for the SBHH and SBH.
I don't think the 22.5g is the max load in my gun- the primers on all loads were just a little flat.
Definately need to do some more experimenting but I think this is a good start and I'm happy with the results so far. I think this will make a dandy hunting boolit.
Now I just need to do an expansion test on the HP and get the chrono out for my next go 'round. I'll sure be letting ya'll know what I find out.