Cough! Thump! Quiet, Heavy, Slow .357 loads

[Old Ironsights]

I have some 180gr soft lead Keith "boolits" coming from my caster (I cast my own .50/.73 Round Ball & .50 REALs, but not .357) and need to know how low I can go safely using BP or Substitutes without plugging up a 20" barrel.

It looks like I will have a maximum case capicity of about 15gr BP. I will be using a Lee Loader & dippers.

What I want to make is a heavy, sub-sonic small varmint load like but using BP or Substitute rather than smokeless. (I have about 3lbs of "3F" Substitutes and 2.5 lbs of 4F to play with.)

Thanks.

[DX250]

I use a 158 RN with 16.5gr of Goex FFFG with a card wad and a .060 thick veggie wad that is bees wax saturated. That load is good for about 750 FPS in my 7 1/2" colt clone. Off sand bags it gets about 3'' at 50 yards but my front site is a hair loose though. I would try a wad if you are still getting too much velocity with a case full of the FFFG sub. The will most likly be to "fast" for you needs as the smaller grains of this powder will burn mor readily and create higher pressures, also the finer the granulation the more the fouling in my expirence. My 2 cents or 4 maybe.

Brian

[Old Ironsights]

Thanks Grey.

Anybody else? The "3F" granulation of most substitutes (other than 777) is larger than 2F BP. But I also have all this 4F/Fines left over from screening 5lb BP.

I want to be efficient with both my powder and bullet effectiveness. It needs to be slow, quiet, and heavy - capable of whacking most small to medium size varmints (squirrel to coyote) at short range (max 50yds)

[montana_charlie]

I have about 3lbs of "3F" Substitutes and 2.5 lbs of 4F to play with.
It's been a while since I paid any attention to percussion revolvers, but I think I remember that 3F was the granulation used in them. I would imagine that any load designed for a .36 Colt Navy would work (or come close) in a .357 case.

I would probably stay out of that can of 4F, though. It might be OK to toy with it in a stoutly built singleshot, but I would hate to mess up a revolver.
CM

[Old Ironsights]

Well, my Percussion gun is an ROA, and it likes 4F, but in this case what I want to load low velocity, soft lead 180gr .357 loads for use in a 20" Rossi '92 .357 Levergun and (possibly) an SP101 Revolver.

[omgb]

Even 12 grains will not jam that slug in the bore. I'd be willing to be that 12 grains and the slug you mention will go about 550 fps out of a 20 inch barrel. Use a mag primer and I'll bet you get almost no fouling build up.

[Dale53]

Keep in mind that you will need a good black powder lube for your loads. I used Emmert's Home Mix, but any good BP lube should work for you. You WILL have a limited number of shots before accuracy goes to heck... Then you clean and start all over again.

My experience has been with the .45 LC which is a VERY practical BP revolver when loaded correctly. I would suggest you get and read Mike Venturino's book on Shooting the Colt Single action. He lists a complete section of BP loads and my findings paralleled his. I don't have it handy so can't say whether the .357 is in there or not. However, the principles are the same for all revolvers and I would think it would be quite helpful to you. It sure was to me.

There are some differences when shooting BP in a rifle as opposed to a revolver, but mostly the problems are similar.

Use a soft alloy (I use 30/1 lead/tin) sized correctly for your equipment, a good BP lube (in a bullet design that carries enough lube - Elmer Keith's designs will show you what works with black). You WILL have to clean frequently. Some revolvers and rifles will only go a few shots before needing cleaning. Your first clue will be wild shooting. My .45 Colt revolver will go 75 shots with Pyrodex powder before it starts to tie up. Some revolvers and rifles will be lucky to get ten shots in. Failure to chamber because of fouling may occcur in just a few shots. You'll just have to try it and see what works for you and your gear.

Dale53

[Old Ironsights]

Well, I expect to not fire more than one or two of these at a time before I go hide it anyway. We are talking about a load for use on racoons in a built-up area...

[RalphH]

Greetings, Old Ironsights,

Now's the time to try the PinnAcle 3f you told me you have. Fill case to bottom of boolit. Needs hardly any compression. What ever bullet lube is already on the boolits is good enough. Don't need BP lube with PinnAcle. Fouling almost non existant. Clean gun like you would smokeless powder. See if it's satisfactory.

[Old Ironsights]

That's the plan. Use up the Pinnacle and Shockey Gold and save the 4F for my Ruger Old Army.

[shooter575]

If your case full of BP or sub is still too much try using a filler.I have good luck with Cream of wheat[COW] I have used it in 45-70 and 44-40 with good results.Lots of my southern shooting buddies use grits with same results.They say.[I just hate grits,yuck] Them fillers work real well in percussion revolvers too.A buddy uses 16 gr fff in a 44 rem.Ballance of chamber is COW to keep ball just below cylinder mouth.

[Old Ironsights]

I have a TC black composite Flask full of farina in my Range Bag. Have ever since I got my ROA.

Do you have to put a card between your powder & farina in the cartridge case, or is compression alone enough?

[shooter575]

No card is needed.They have made the Mi to Va trip and back [500 mi each way] with out a hitch in my 44-40 loads.If any lube melts it will get asorbed by the COW before the powder.Not that I have had that problem.I keep rounds bullet down in the the shade.

[Old Ironsights]

Heh. I've got a 158gr HP on order and now I'm getting in on the 180gr buy. Fun Fun.

[StrawHat]

Heh. I've got a 158gr HP on order and now I'm getting in on the 180gr buy. Fun Fun.


So, what load did you end up with?

I too, am looking for a varmit load for use in the "city".

Thanks

[Old Ironsights]

I setled on 5gr & farina under the 180. Works well.

I also worked up a gallery load using 1gr titegroup & the 158, but I think I'm going to bump it to 1.5gr.