*** Question: Lead shavings when seating bullet

[Hometek]

First post here. I have lurked for a while before joining and am now just getting around to posting for the first time. I'v searched a bit for this problem and haven't found the answer yet.

I'm reloading .40 S&W with Magnum small pistol primer ( only primer available here), 3.8 gr of red dot, and using ww lead in a lee mould #90431. I slugged the barrell but I don't have a very gool caliper. It has hash marks to the hundredths. Anyway the bullet is slightly larger than the slug measurment. Reading posts about bullet size it appeared the bullet only needed to be .001 to .002 larger. Looks like it would be close to that.

The problem is that when I fire the rounds it leaves fairly heavy leading in the barrel. After 200rds it takes a lot of elbow grease using kroil and a tight patch covered with a bronze screen. Most of the lead comes out quick but there is some stubborn lead spots that refuse to come out. I usually take out 95% and just leave the rest.

I do have a problem ftf. the round will chamber 2/3 of the way and stop. A tap on the butt will make the round chamber the rest of the way. The round is still sloped so it's not the size of the bullet stopping it in my mind.

Another problem is that about every 30 rds I'll get a round that won't chamber. I look at the bullet and it has lead smeared down a bit on the brass thus making it larger causing it to not chamber. I have noticed that when I am seating and crimping the bullet that at times it's shaving the bullet a bit. I set the expander die lower so that it would bell the cartridge more. It helped a lot but I still get some shavings. I think that those shavings are what are getting smeared on the brass.

And finally how much does the shell need to be belled? It almost seems like I'm belling it too much. I've had 3 shell split.

Any one care to speculate? This is a great site by the way. I've reloaded rifle for a while but this is the first time I've reloaded for pistol. And the first time I've cast bullets for modern firearms. I appreciate any help.

[jonk]

A few thoughts come to mind-

You ARE using a lube on those bullets, yes? What is it?

By crimping you may be distorting (shrinking) the bullet. An undersized bullet -->leading.

You state you are belling the brass. If you are, you should not have any lead shavings. I wonder if your seating die is set too deep? That could be removing the bell from the case before the bullet is fully seated. How much is enough? Enough so the base of the bullet will set in the case mouth without contacting the top of the neck, i.e. the bell surrounds the whole base of the bullet.

Finally, it could be the load. Without a proper caliper you can't say for sure.

[Bullshop]

It will be helpfull to seat and crimp in seperate operations.
BIC/BS

[Hometek]

I'm using Alox lube.

[carpetman]

Hometek--Welcome aboard. You will probably get a long list of creative ways people "bell" the neck. I'm sure they all work--but for my time and money, the best and most consistent way is to get a Lyman M die for your cal--it expands the neck slightly and eliminates the shaving. With that die body you can buy other sizes of just the expander. The leading could be your lube if fit is correct. I'd go one of two routes for a different lube. One is make your own Felix lube----you can read tons of material here about it or you can talk to felix right here on this board. If you aren't into cooking and collecting the ingredients, right on bottom of this page is a link to lar45Lsstuff---another member of this board makes and sells lube and I've only heard good about it.

[will-mo]

Its possible that you are applying a slight crimp during the seating stage. Measure the bullet before and after seating to see if the bullet is digging into the casing.

Someone recommended this to me. I seated the bullets and then removed the bullet from the case. You could see a significant difference in diameter on the part in the case and the part just outside the case mouth. I had this problem in my .45 acp 1911 and backing out the seating die fixed this.

Will

[fredj338]

Bell the case enough to accept the base of the bullet. Seat & crimp separately. DO NOT use the LFCD, just a light taper crimp works fine. Double dip if using Alox, IMO, just doesn't flow enough in high pressure loads like the 40.

[helg]

Failure to feed on the 2/3th means that neck diameter of the round is too big. It is either undercrimping or excessive bullet diameter. It may be glocked brass, you may figure out this by trying to chamber a sized shell.

Lead shaving when seating bullet is, again, usually either of the two:

1. Seating too deep. With right seating depth for the bullet, which you use, shell neck should just cover the top lube groove. The attached picture shows right seating depth and crimp for your caliber and mold.

2. Bullet diameter is too big.

As the ftf and the shaving occur at the same time, the second is more likely.

My Lee TL401-175-SWC when hot was dropping WW bullets up to .408". Unsized bullets of this diameter would cause FTF and shaving exactly like you described.

Leading is another story. It may be not enough lube or insufficient bullet hardness. When you size with Lee sizer, the bullet is usually lubed twice: before and after sizing. This should help to solve the lubing issue if any. Hardness... Did you water quench your bullets?

[462]

Hometek,

I was experiencing similar problems, here's what worked for me:

1. The Lyman "M" die! It expands rather than flaring the case mouth, and installs a step that allows the boolit to sit squarely in the mouth as it enters the seating die. Also, I was using a Lee seating die, and it was down-sizing the boolit. Going to Lyman dies eliminated two problems.

2. Seat the boolits in one step, then come back and crimp them. Seating and crimping at the same time will cause the case mouth to close too soon, which creates the shavings.

3. Though it is a time consumming job and not fun, remove ALL the lead from the barrel. Shooting lead over lead will exasperate whatever leading issue you are having. Also, if you have fired jacketed bullets, you will need to remove all traces of copper. Sweet's 7.62 or Montana Extreme Copper Killer will do the job.

Whatever you do, don't get discouraged or frustrated.

[canyon-ghost]

I have one more little 'goodie' suggestion, had the chamber problem with a tight 9mm barrel. Try a chamfer tool that does both the inside and the outside. If the brass is sharp on the case neck sometimes it needs just a touch with the tool. Doesn't take much but it does help out the situation.

[Bret4207]

You've been given some good advice. I'd take a good look at the boolit after it's loaded. Leading can often be traced to poor fit. And do as the man says- get ALL the fouling out! Copper, lead, powder, dust bunnys and any stray cats, rats or sheep that may be in there. Fouling can end up working just like a rasp on wood. Not good.

[462]

So that's where my wife's cat disappeared to.

[Hometek]

Acording to the picture above I was seating too deep. I had read somewhere that on the 40 seating them deeper would help the round load into the pistol easier. I adjusted the die and ran a few. They shot a lot better. The only problem now is fixing the ftf. I still had 2 in every mag that would load about 2/3 and then jam. Smacking the butt of the pistol would fix the problem every time. I wish I had a good digital camera to show pics.

The only think I can think of is the part of the slide that the base fo the shell slides against needs to be polished. There are slight tool marks. The other thing is, as I'm reloading (Hornady L-N-L AP) the shells get lube on them. I pick up alox lubed bullets and my fingers get the lube on them and then on the shells. I'm going to clean the next 50 rounds after I load them and see what result I get.

[helg]

I would still recommend to measure cast bullet diameters. Good calipers are not that expensive these days.

Anyway, there is a way to measure bullet diameter... without caliper or mike. Basically, you roll the bullet 50 full turns and measure the path with a ruler.

First, the bullet has to be round. No lines where two parts of the mold connect. I believe you do not load these bullets. You will need a straight surface of about 6ft long, (kitchen desk or smooth concrete floor), tape measure, marker, masking tape, some flat bar to roll the bullet for the 5ft without slippage. I use a thick metal ruler.

See the picture. Mark a slash at the bullet. Stick a piece of masking tape to your rolling surface and put a slash at the tape under the slash at the bullet. Then roll the bullet with the bar on top 50 full turns. 40 caliber bullet moves about 63 inches, make sure you have enough space. Put another piece of masking tape with a mark where the mark on the bullet appears after 50 turns. Measure the distance between the two marks. Then calculate bullet diameter with a formula:

Bullet_diameter = measured_path / ( 50 * 3.1416)

For example, if the measured path is 63", the bullet diameter is .401". If it is 63 and 1/16", the diameter is .4015". Pretty accurate, heh?

[GRid.1569]

:holysheep

Now that's true genius.... I'd never have worked that out in million years... suppose you could go for less turns and change the 50 parameter... Cool...

and +1 on the separate seating / crimping operations... those rounds that headspace off the case mouth seem better that way... (used to have the same prob with 9x19mm before the handgun ban following Dunblaine)