T P filler

[Ramsmacker]

Hi all,
Is it safe to use a small wad of toilet paper to hold the powder down in a 32-20.
Rifle is a new 94 Marlin CL. Load is 3 to 5 gr of Win 231. Case is Win, primer is Win SP, Bullet is 115gr PB RNFP at about 20 BHN using Felix lube. Thanks for your help.

Ramsmacker

[David R]

It has been said many times here as long as you have no air space between the "wad" and boolit, it will work. I have tired it many times and gave up. Ballistics are always better and accuracy worse. Check for your self.

MY opinion, no filler needed in that size case or that type of powder charge. I shoot a 32-20 also. Best load for me is with SR4759. It almost fills the case.

David

[44man]

It depends on the case, powder, etc. My 45-70 is a little more accurate with dacron.

[Ramsmacker]

David,
Thanks for the reply. I've tried SR4759 and got a lot of unburned powder from it. Accuracy was good but still got fliers. Tried heavy crimp and small rifle primers to get rid of unburned powder, no luck. The load was not below or above loading manual specs. Are you getting unburned powder with your load?
Ramsmacker

[Jon K]

Ramsmacker,

Try 5.5 grains of Unique. It worked for me in a Uberti '73 32-20 20 inch barrel, Saeco 118 gr TCFP, Sized .312. No filler used, the case is small enough, and the bullet long enough that there is very little air space.
Good Luck,
Jon
:castmine:

[44man]

The unburned powder doesn't make sense in that caliber. I shoot 4759 out of a 45-70 10" revolver with no unburned powder. Are you sure you have boolit tension in the case? Crimp will not solve a loose boolit. That barrel is long enough to burn almost any powder listed for the caliber.
I would not use toilet paper over the powder. Go to a fabric store and buy a bag of garneted polyester fiberfill (Small animals and pillows are stuffed with it.) and put a small ball of it over the powder. A bag is cheap and will last for years.
It sounds like your cases are expanded so much there is zero resistance for the powder burn. Or your boolits are way undersize for the bore.
4759 is a fast powder.

[Bucks Owin]

Ramsmacker, I don't let "unburned powder" worry me too much. I use SR 4759 in .44 mag handgun loads and get some powder left in the bore. Big deal! It shoots very accurately and with a small SD. When a load works that well, I don't mind an extra pass or two with the ol' cleaning rod.... ;-)

Using 4759, usually there isn't much airspace in the case, it "bulks out" pretty good in my experience. Maybe your load's a little on the light side?

FWIW,

Dennis

[44man]

Bucks, I LOVE 4759. But he should get a complete burn in a rifle. Something else is wrong.

[Cherokee]

I shoot 32-20 extensively using original Marlin 1889's and custom Ruger postols. The load I use for plinking is 3 to 3.5 gr 231 and is great in my guns. Never tried a filler because never felt I could improve on the load.

[Larry Gibson]

Hi all,
Is it safe to use a small wad of toilet paper to hold the powder down in a 32-20.
Rifle is a new 94 Marlin CL. Load is 3 to 5 gr of Win 231. Case is Win, primer is Win SP, Bullet is 115gr PB RNFP at about 20 BHN using Felix lube. Thanks for your help.

Ramsmacker

Cherokee makes a good point. In a case as small as the 32-20 with that fast of powder no filler is necessary. I use a lot of dacron (suggest its use instead of TP) as a filler in many cartridges and in most cases its use provides more uniform internal ballistics, perhaps acts a a gas check with plain base bullets and gives better accuracy. However, I only use it with medium burning rifle powders when loading density is less than 80%.

As to the unberned 4759, I agree that there is another problem if you have a lot of it. 4759 Ia good performer in the 25-20 and 32-20 in my experience. Again to answer the question; no, a TP wad should not be necessary with the load you mention.

Larry Gibson

[Dale53]

I don't load for the 32/20 but have loaded extensively for the 25/20. I use a Lyman 257420 with 4.0 grs of Unique for squirrels. For a heavy load I load 14.5 grs of RL-7 (compressed load) and for a moderate load 11.0 grs of RL-7. No fillers are necessaary. At fifty yards, all three loads with stay in the NRA 10 ring. I do NOT get a high "X" count but this is NOT a target rifle. The two RL-7 loads should only be used in a strong action rifle (mine is a late model 1894 Marlin). Work up the top load carefully as your rifle and components may differ.

I prefer Remington 61/2 primers and my bullet alloy is Linotype. I use GC's with all
of these loads. The bullet is sized .258.

I would think that the .32/20 would respond similarly. All of my loads were worked up using a chronograph (Oehler #35). The top load gives just under 2200 fps. This is similar to the old High Speed load except the factory used a 60 gr jacketed bullet.

I have NO pressure problems with this load. After I settled on the top load, I loaded five cases, on the range, twenty times with no problems. I am still using those cases. I am getting NO case loss. I ruined a couple in the press (nicked the mouths when I got careless) but this combination shows longevity.

RL-7 seems to work well in all of the old black powder cases that made the transition to smokeless (that I have worked with).

Dale53

[shooter2]

All powders/loads leave some that is unburned. Up to 2% +/- on the average with faster powders having a lower percentage than slower powders. Even the ballisticians are not sure why this happens. W231 burns before the bullet leaves the case and any canister powder will burn before the bullet leaves the barrel. That is, all that's going to burn, will burn. Dacron is a better filler than TP, but no filler should be necessary with that load.

As to fillers in general. IMHO, if you can get by without them, do so. That said, my 45-70 shoots much better with a generous wad of Dacron (one grain) and 28 grains of 4198 and a 405 grain bullet than without it...

[Mugs]

I agree 100% with what shooter2 said. I shoot a 30 carbine, almost the same capacity as 32/20, with the RCBS 115, 4.5 grs. W 231 and REM. 7 1/2 primer, out of a 10" TC. I use it for NRA Hunter Pistol/ IHMSA Field Pistol. Very accurate.
Mugs

[Ramsmacker]

Here we go for the 5th time, keep getting logged off when I try to post. So we will copy and paste. And now the rest of the story! I’m shooting at 6,000 ft above sea level. I only size the case to the depth the bullet will be seated and seat the bullet to just short of the lands. Liability forces the club to allow only single loading in the cowboy silhouette matches. Possible mag tube blow up with a pointed bullet! Are 7 to 10 unburned granules of 4759 not enough to worry about? The load shoots well except for the fliers. I’m an old BR shooter, maybe I’m expecting too much? Or do I need to FL size and seat deeper? Your response has been amazing!! You have all given me great ideas and lots of things to think about. Is this not a great forum or what? Thanks again for your help.
Ramsmacker

[44man]

The only way you will know if the unburned powder is a problem is to chronograph the loads. Wide swings in velocity will cause your flyers.

[Jon K]

Ramsmacker,

Chronograph and group test the loads to see which the gun likes best. Don't worry about the unburned powder left in the barrel. I have shot a lot of 4759 and 5744 in Silhoutte since 1983 and, it is common for those powders to leave granules of unburned powder. Just something those powders do, and they are good powders for cast bullets, also work good as reduced velocity loads w/jacketed bullets.

May all your Rams fall,
Jon

[Ramsmacker]

Thanks guy's,
I'll give 4759 and WW231 another try, this time with the radar gun. I'll let you know if they get a ticket for a too wide of speed variation. Jon, I'm just happy to hit the rams even if they don't fall.

Ramsmacker