303-375 (375/303) who shoots one?

[303Guy]

Building and hunting with a 303-375 (375/303) Lee Enfield carbine has been on my mind for a while now. Who loads for and hunts with one? With paper patch boolits? (That is my intention).

[PAT303]

A mate has a 35/303 on a large martini action.Shoots like a house on fire. Pat

[Bullshop]

I once had a 375/30/40Kraig on a siamese mauser. It got right up there close to origonal 375 H&H velocities. Not too shabby. Its possible I may still have some load data for it somwhere.
Someone else wanted it perty bad so off it went. The fella that built it made another one on a Hepburn but I never was able to get that one from him.
BIC/BS

[303Guy]

The 375/30/40Krag would be the 37 Rimmed if it had a tiny shoulder. I do believe the Krag would be a better case for the project with its longer neck. Mine would have no shoulder at all - keeping the case body unchanged - so as to work in the Lee Enfield magazine.

The 35/303 would make a good choice too! My idea was to increase the expansion ratio as much as possible so as to utilize the cartridge in a shorter barrel. But if a 35 barrel came my way ... [smilie=1: - there's nothing wrong with the 35/303! If I do get around to building a barrel re-boring and rifling machine, I might make the 35 my first stop in case I botch it then I have another chance at 375. Anyway, the 375 is bigger which makes machining easier!:mrgreen:

A problem I foresee with necking up 303 Brit cases is the 'dough-nut' it leaves. I intend to use the 'dough-nut' as a seating stop so that would limit seating depth. I would have prefered being able to seat the boolit deeper for the sake of protecting the paper patch.

[runfiverun]

you ould use an inside cutter/case reamer to take out the donut after outside sizing.

[rollingblock]

I have a BPCR built on an original low wall with a Tony Hawkins barrel in 375-303. I've not been doing much BP lately but its definately a good CB cal to consider. I would not think you would get sufficient velocity to really require PP though. Shot a couple of deer with it but with BP velocities there was not a lot of expansion. Tony must have made this barrel the morning after the night before as the bore is quite off center but it still shoots real well.

[rollingblock]

Its been a bit of a safe queen lately but its much too good a rifle for that.

[303Guy]

Beauty! You know, single shots have always appealed to me! I think when I do finally get or build one it's going to be BP and a fairly large cased cartridge. (Mind you, a 45-90 fits on a Lee Enfield action!)

I could turn the dough-nut off but I would rather leave it there as a seating stop. (Much simpler to form cases - lazy maybe!) A problem I foresee is the residual shape irregularity which will result in a thinner section of the case after turning.

I formed a 35/303 case today and that would solve the dough-nut problem just fine. I'm sure it would be plenty gun and would suite a shorter barrel just fine too. Any bullet weight over 250 grs is going to be overkill anyway (which is what I want. Overkilled critters don't seem to go far, for some reason!)

[rollingblock]

38-303 case with lyman 250gr and the off center barrel

[Euan]

Building and hunting with a 303-375 (375/303) Lee Enfield carbine has been on my mind for a while now. Who loads for and hunts with one? With paper patch boolits? (That is my intention).

Giday 303 Guy, If picture works, From left Loaded 375/303 Rounds. CBE 376 300 grain Gas Check of WW, then a CBE 376 265 With GC Heel paper Patched soft lead weighs 315 grains, 3rd lyman 375- 449 gas Check of WW, Last .369 CBE ajustable length mold 270 grain PP of soft lead. These are loaded to 1850 to 1950 fps. I would not use them in Rollin Blocks Low Wall. I have used them in My Win HiWall 85, my 95 Win, Martini. & even on a No 4 with no problems. case life is excellent. We have shot 100s of head of game over the years with them. Red deer, Fallow deer, White Tail deer, pigs, goats, chamois, even rabbits & hares.
I don't think that I would ever be without a 375/303. cheap to feed with cast boolits easy to shoot without excessive recoil, Kills well, have had no complaints from any of their prey.
Cheer Euan.

[303Guy]

Thanks, Euan & Rollingblock.

It's sure good to see my hypothetical 'creation' is actually a sound working cartridge, tried and tested. Now to build mine! I have to start with a barrel re-boring tool .... :rolleyes: Building the rifling machine will be fun![smilie=1:

What is accuracy do you folks achieve with the 375/303?

[docone31]

Heck .303Guy, building a rifleing machine is a simple task.
Get a table, get a large wood beam, about 4" in length. Make a collar. Take the beam, and with a string, wrap the string to the twist. Spray paint it. Remove the spray paint. Route out the channel.
Take the collar, and put a tab in the end. Make it so it indexes on the points needed.
On the end of the beam, put a wood dowel, less than the finished diameter of the bore. At the end of that, put a small file. Shim the file with paper to get the heights.
Now, push the file in, and out of the bore. By pushing on the beam, and haveing it travel the length of the barrel to be rifled, the collar which is stationary, turns the beam, which turns the file.
With a little experimentation, you should have a rifleing machine.
In all reality, it might be simpler to just get a barrel, but imagine how it will feel to have done it completely.
They do that with muzzle loaders, on large twists, you would just tighten up the twist for smokeless.

[303Guy]

I am thinking of a lathe bed mounted device with a gear drive connecting the spindle to the cutting attachment that has a slight differential rotational speed as it is driven by the feed screw. My lathe is small so the rifling length will be limited. Failing that, I know someone with a barrel rifling machine. He has won competitions using barrels he has made for himself.

[docone31]

I figuired you would know someone.
Those machines are pretty scarce here.
I would go for the friends machine.
Sounds like a serious rifle.

[windrider919]

Hi 303Guy

I know you are equipped through the British military sys surpluss so 303 is what you might tend to work with but there is actually a very good 375 cartridge you might consider. I used to shoot 375H&H but it was just too overbore with lighter bullets and the rifles bigger than I liked. So once when I got a 375 barrel and had a Remington 700 regular action I built a 375-06. Actually a 375 Whelen with the 40 degree Ackley shoulder for better headspace. A super shooter and exceedingly accurate it was very versitle with both bullets and powders. And I could form the brass easily, usually only loosing one or two per 50.

Do a search for .375-06 or to see a picture of a regular shoulder 375-06 see:
http://www.ammo-one.com/375-06JDJ.html

so unless you just have to have a rimed case you might look at this one.

Note: I do not like the 375JDJ because of the short neck but it is the only picture I could find.

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/7C7D23E1D49E845/standard.jpg

The JDJ version looks like a Rocky Gibbs conversion. Blow the case out almost straight an put a minimal neck length on it. Heck, just convert the SMLE to 444 Marlin or 45-90.

...............Buckshot

[Frank46]

303GUY, had some thoughts along the same lines. Just neck up the 303 case and seat a lyman 375 gas checked bullet. Had some good discussions on the assra web site sometime back. Another cartridge you may want to consider is the 375 2.5 nitro express. If I remember correctly pushes a 300gr jacketed bullet at about 1900 feet per second. Think Bertram makes brass for this one and was once chambered in the lee speed rifles. If brass isn't available you could trim down 405 winchester cases to 2.5" and have pacific tool and guage cut you a finishing reamer. Make up a ring die to size just about 3/8 of the case. And you should be good to go. Even went so far as to cut down a #4 MKI* junk receiver by removeing the charger bridge and lowering the left wall with files and then spent some long hours cleaning the entire receiver up. but since I have a champange taste and a beer pocket book decided to finally get an origional high wall action barrelled to 38-55 and go from there. Had a winchester 70 in 375 H&H many years ago, two boxes of cartridges later was more fun than I could take. So that one went down the road for something else. Frank

[Euan]

Thanks, Euan & Rollingblock.

It's sure good to see my hypothetical 'creation' is actually a sound working cartridge, tried and tested. Now to build mine! I have to start with a barrel re-boring tool .... :rolleyes: Building the rifling machine will be fun![smilie=1:

What is accuracy do you folks achieve with the 375/303?

303 Guy; Acurracy is pretty good. The target was shot at 100 yards off a bench with my Win Hi Wall 30'' barrel, 1 in 12'' twist, Lyman 375-449 GC 285 grain of WW @ 1950 fps. the High 3 were getting a zero. The I ajusted the tang down a little and fired 5 shots that went pretty good, but I duffed the last shot. But still not bad For a huntin rifle. It just shows you dont look after shot 4 to see how ya going.
The next picture is the 85 High wall, sorry about the quality of pic. She is just about my favourate rifle.
Cheers Euan.

[303Guy]

Thanks for all the input guys!

Euan, there's nothing wrong with your rifle! Hunting with a singhle shot must be very satisfying! (I have the beginnings of a single shot in the form of a shotgun which is destined to get a barrel insert to make it a rifle. It will get a suppressor and scope - I'm a scope person).

The reason for wanting a 375/303 is standardization on the Lee Enfield action and a desire for a ten shot magazine. The rifle is intended as a short barreled bush carbine. Our bush conditions can be quite challenging! Muddy, steep, irregular and heavy undergrouth. The gun butt is likely to be used as a 'mud pick' to keep from slipping down a slippery slope. The gun would be fitted with one of my own suppressor/break creations which will also serve to keep mud and debtis out of the muzzle.

I have considered the 444 and 45-70 or 45-90 but magazine capacity would be lost and there would be some action mods required.

A 41/303 was my first consideration. I could theoretically creat a 375/444 or even a 41/444. Another contender is the 9.5x45 - made by cutting the 303 Brit case off at the shoulder/body juntion leaving a case length of 45mm. Or 10x45 (41cal).

In the end, what I want is a cartridge that holds the patched boolit within its body like a 45-70 would - that's to keep the boolit protected and the catridge to a manageable length (I don't want too much power and recoil).

Another 303 based wildcat I have in the waiting is a 303-22 also for a Lee Enfield. That is basically a rimmed 220 Swift (pressure would be kept to Lee Enfield levels of course which would make is just shade behind the 22-250 - starting load levels, basically. I have a 1-in-14 twist barrel).

[JeffinNZ]

Peter, I have a Hawkins .38-303 on a MLE action. Shoots like a house on fire!!!! Mainly shoot BP in it but a full case of W748 under a 300gr soft cast bullet shoots WAY better than it has any right to.

[303Guy]

Thanks for that, Jeff. Is "Hawkins .38-303" the name for the cartridge I am trying to 'invent'? (The problem with the name "38" is that it could also refer to the 357!) Do you have any pics or even cartridge specs?

[JeffinNZ]

The barrel is stamped ".38/303" and it is simply a .303 blown out to fit the chamber. I will measure for you.
Here it is with the .38 Hawkins bullet the mould for which I don't have unfortunately and that is a 100m group.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/38303group.jpg

[elk hunter]

I went with a 375 Waters Express, 444 necked to .375, on a #4 SMLE. This one had been sporterized by the Muppits or some such. I've been working on it as I have time trying to get it to feed, it has been a bit of a trial, but is coming along. I hope to end up with a copy of the Lee Speed sporter. Don't know what I will do with it, but hey one can't have too many options when it comes to rifles.

[303Guy]

Thanks for that. So 38/303 Hawkins it is! Or is hawkins a barrel manufacturer? 38/303 then! (Since it's exactly what I am trying to re-create).

elk hunter, do you have any pics of your rifle and it's cartridge?

[JeffinNZ]

Tony Hawkins died some years back but was a VERY good barrel maker and was based in Tauranga. I have one of his .22RF barrels on my Roller and of course the .38 on my .38-303 plus a spare .38 MLer barrel for a project. He made moulds to match the barrels and they remain in big demand. I nearly fainted when the guy who gave me the 300gr bullets to try told me he sold the mould.

Shall I post you one of my cases???

[303Guy]

Thank you kindly, Jeff, that would be appreciated! Do you still have my address? (Could you spare a boolit?[smilie=1:)

Say, have you done an article on the Hawkins 38? (That name has a 'ring' to it! Not to be confused with the Hawkins 36!)

[elk hunter]

elk hunter, do you have any pics of your rifle and it's cartridge?[/QUOTE]


303guy,

Here's a couple of pictures. As you can see I haven't done a whole lot on this project.

I fit the new barrel, removed the charger bridge, extended the bolt handle with a new knob, changed the contour of the trigger guard, worked on the feeding and test fired it. I haven't ordered the new wood yet.

The cartridge on the left is a 303 the 375 is the Waters Express version as designed by Ken Waters a US gun writer.

I intended to use the Speer 235 grain bullet, but have heard that it is too hard to expand at the lower velocity of this round. I'm thinking I'll try the 225 grain for the 375 Winchester for jacketed and make a mould for it also.

[303Guy]

Thanks for that, elk hunter. So you say it has some feeding issues? My idea of going 'straight walled is to avoid any need to deal with such issues and besides, how much power does one need? But then again, looking at that cartridge, I can see its appeal! Mmmmm..... (Perhaps you should just send it over the equator to me for evaluation and checking for safety and safe keeping! :mrgreen:
And of course the fitting of a noise reducing, shrowded muzzle break. :rolleyes: )

You know, a Lee Enfield, when fitted with an 'after market' butt-stock, makes a wonderful hunting rifle.

[elk hunter]

303guy,

I would suggest that you pull the barrel from your action and then try to feed a dummy round of the caliber that you decide on from your magazine. If your cartridge of choice is based on the 303 you should meet with at least some success. The 444 parent case of the 375 Waters Express is quite a bit larger in diameter than the 303 and as such it creates some issues, but I believe it can be made to work. I have a number of other projects that I need to finish before I get any more involved with this one so it might be some time before I finish it. I do believe it will make a very nice cast bullet shooter. I might even try to take an elk with it one day.

Good luck with your project.

[303Guy]

Thanks. I intend making a dummy barrel to test the catridges with before I embark on the project.

[deadkelly]

i know this is a old tread i'd like to know how the 375 303 turned out ?

[Pepe Ray]

DeadKelly;
For results, you should P.M. 303 Guy.
Pepe Ray

[BRUCE MOULDS]

for 375/303, read 38/50 remington-hepburn.
with a 12 twist barrel and appropriate bullets, this cartridge is suitable for 1000 yard shooting and sillywet with black powder.
the 303 cae necked to 40 is the 40/60 maynard.
just a bit of historical interest.
sometimes a bit of size juggling can be done by replacing the 303 casewith the 30/40 krag case.
bruce moulds.

[303Guy]

40-60 Maynard it is. (Very nearly). Look up 40-60 Maynard on the web or click on; news.webshots.com/photo/1102168776043890194BeJRmi

[BRUCE MOULDS]

303guy,
if using black, try large pistol primers, and when seating the primer use it to cut a paper wad which it then pushes to the bottom of the primer pocket. this will sometimes improve accuracy.
don't forget to wash with a brush your fired cases in vinegar and water to maintain case life.
if you run patched to bore dia, you can seat bullets out further, thus gaining powder capacity.
bruce moulds.

[chrispy]

The 40/60 Maynard looks like the go to me. The largest you could possibly make your 303 brass to be. Just Awesome!

Chrispy

[nanuk]

what weight of boolit is normal in the 40/60?

i'm gonna guess about 300--375 at 1250fps?



nevermind found it at the site 303guy posted... 400gr at 1200fps.

[deadkelly]

yeah the 38 rem-hepburn & 40-60 maynard both look very interesting to me . i have had the 40 cal 303 on my mind for a long time . i'm looking at building a lee enfield no1 mk111* . i'm looking for a cartridge with similar power to the 375 win , 444m , 45/70 . i'd like to stick with the 303 british case , mainly because it's easy to get & quite cheap , but teamed up with a smooth & fast smle with 8-10 rounds in the magazine + the option of being charger / striper clip fed appeals to me . 303 , 30-40 , 405 win & 9.3x74r all are similar cases apart from length , with the 303 being easyer to obtain .

[slug]

The .38/45 Bullard uses the same back end as the .303B. I had a chance to pick up an unused reamer and die set and grabbed it. I will probably never use it, but it is a neat idea.