9mm boolit casting help

[commostud]

I am using a lee 124 gr 6 bullet mould. I am also using wheel weight lead. I have been loading them up for my HK USP compact 9mm. I have lowering my powder amounts and I am still leading up the barrel pretty badly. I bought lee's sizer for .356 and sized the bullets and tried again. Same result. I am also using these boolits in a ruger p85 with the same result. Here is my load:

3.8 gr. Unique
cci 500 primer

Should I try and lower the powder amount to around 3.3 or 3 grains? Thanks for any help you can give me. Oh I am new to this forum. I found out about this on Frugal squirrels. Thanks again jason

[snaggdit]

Welcome! Good (mostly) complete info for this being your first post. My big question is what is the size of the grooves in these two guns? Second question is what lube are you using? I would recommend slugging your barrels to determine the groove diameter then size your boolits .001 to .002 over groove size. 9mms can vary from .354 to .358 or even bigger (but not often). What size are your boolits dropping at before sizing? More info needed and you will get lots more direct help.

[commostud]

Before I size them the aveage is .359 to .362. After I size them they are .356 . The barrel on my pistol has polygonal rifling, but the ruger has normal type of rifling. the both lead the same way.

[snaggdit]

Well, if they were leading as dropped it probably isn't a sizing issue. What lube and do the bases have crisp edges? BTW, you can measure grooves on a polygon rifled barrel by wrapping a layer of aluminum around the slug and subtracting twice the thickness from the measured size. I can't speak to the Unique load since I have only used Red Dot and Accurate #2 and #5 in the 9mms I shoot. I have been meaning to try Unique but haven't got around to it.

[Al_sway]

In my experience, the Unique load he quotes is on the mild side. I use Unique and 124 grain cast bullets, and I don't experience leading in my Browning Hi-power. I would also question what lube he is using, as he doesn't mention it at all.
Also, I found that my most accurate loads were shooting .357 diameter bullets, not .355 or .356.

[commostud]

I am using lee liquid alox with the lee tumble lube bullets..

[snaggdit]

Are you lubing after sizing? Sizing down .004 is probably smoothing out the tumble lube grooves a lot. Try a second light coat after sizing. Maybe a bit more powder might help. Just a thought.

[commostud]

I will give that a try. I will lube them up again and load a test batch a go to the range later this week or weekend. Thanks

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

4.4gr Unique should put you at right around 1,000 fps. Don't go over 5gr.
3.5gr Bullseye will get you about the same velocity. Don't go over 4.8gr.

[Calamity Jake]

And size boolits to .357 or .358

[Cloudpeak]

And size boolits to .357 or .358

Good advice. I've sized .3575" for my 124gr Lee RN's and leading has been minimal in all of my 9mm's.

You can increase the diameter of your Lee push through sizer pretty easily.

[38-55]

Commostud,
I've had the same experience as you.. I finally settled on 3.5 of unique... I just load 'as cast'.. I seem to remember chronographing them at some point and I think they were in the 900 fps range.. Still would get the occasional leading but not very often and it is always easy to clean.. tried a slew of different powders.. same results.. tried different primers.. same results. Tried nato cases and the thin commercial cases.. same results.. taper crimped the little buggers ( hornady taper crimp die ) and things got a little better.. but still the occasional wee bit of leading.. never tried sizing as I kinda feel that defeats the purpose of the lee micro grooves... I did find that I could minimize leading in the nines by: A. cleaning all the copper fouling out of the barrel B. taking a patch of liquid alox and running it through the barrel after cleaning.. C. not mixing jacketed bullet shooting with lead bullet shooting.. clean betweenst the two is a good plan..
Hope this helps ya some..
Calvin

[snaggdit]

Overnight I thought about your problem. The leading with as cast, and I assume single application of LLA is puzzling (should be sufficient without sizing). My only thought is during loading is the boolit being swaged down by your seating or crimping? Pound a loaded round apart and measure the driving bands. This might be somewhere to start.

[bohokii]

do you have a caliper to measure your bullet size

i bought a lee .356 sizer and day one all my bullets measured .354 comming out of it

i used a bore brush wrapped with 600 grip wet dry ran a drill for like 5 minutes now my bullets come through .3555 i get leading but not anymore than in my 45 which is shooting 452 bullets that really measure 452

i generally blame my alloy which is rangescrap about half the lee tumble lube probably 25% of the blame the other 25 probably on my loading i use 3.5 bullseye

i make my cartridges to general specification having 4 different 9mms

i just figure barrel streaking is the tradeoff for not having to buy expensive fmj cartridges

[commostud]

I know what you mean. I am going to try my bullets again. I used my caliper and it is .356. I decreased my load a little bit more, but if this don't work, I will wait until I return from my deployment and I will buy a lyman mould and luber and try it again. I have a decent amount of fmj loaded right now That I will be good for a year.

[sagacious]

I am using a lee 124 gr 6 bullet mould. I am also using wheel weight lead. I have been loading them up for my HK USP compact 9mm. I have lowering my powder amounts and I am still leading up the barrel pretty badly.
...
Thanks again jason
As another member hinted at above, lowering your powder charge may be the wrong approach.

As wacky as it might sound, you may be able to solve or significantly reduce your leading by going to more powder. Sometimes a little more pressure is what you need for the 9mm. I pour the 120gr LEE tc in ww lead for my HK USP 9mm, and it does not like them at the starting load-- a higher powder charge gives me good accuracy and no leading. I size to .356".

Do not exceed or reduce below the published recipes.

Good luck, and stay safe.

[armyrat1970]

As another member hinted at above, lowering your powder charge may be the wrong approach.

As wacky as it might sound, you may be able to solve or significantly reduce your leading by going to more powder. Sometimes a little more pressure is what you need for the 9mm. I pour the 120gr LEE tc in ww lead for my HK USP 9mm, and it does not like them at the starting load-- a higher powder charge gives me good accuracy and no leading. I size to .356".

Do not exceed or reduce below the published recipes.

Good luck, and stay safe.

First, welcome to the board. You've come to the right place.
I think I have to say +1 with this. The boolit may not be expanding enough at the base to fully fill and seal the bore at that lower pressure. Some prefer to use the big letter word of obturate, or however you spell it.[smilie=l: I assume you are not using a Gas Check boolit? Bumping up your charge may be the way to go.
As snaggdit pointed out though, you should relube after sizing.
Where are you deploying to? Are you able to use this weapon during your deployment with your handloads?
Keep your **** down!

[finishman2000]

for the most part poly barrels don't like lead. They will all lead up and have to be cleaned much ssomer than a reg barrel. I still shoot lead out of mine but i do clean them out every hundred or so.
If you size your heads over 357 you can start to effect reliability as the chamber gets dirty, it get tighter.

[commostud]

First, welcome to the board. You've come to the right place.
I think I have to say +1 with this. The boolit may not be expanding enough at the base to fully fill and seal the bore at that lower pressure. Some prefer to use the big letter word of obturate, or however you spell it.[smilie=l: I assume you are not using a Gas Check boolit? Bumping up your charge may be the way to go.
As snaggdit pointed out though, you should relube after sizing.
Where are you deploying to? Are you able to use this weapon during your deployment with your handloads?
Keep your **** down!


I am deploying to afganystan. And NO I will not be able to take any firearms that I own. Believe me when I say I have tried. I have had military lawyers say no, commanders, brigade commanders, and just about everyone who matters say NO. I have also tried to get them to let me bring something home. They still said NO. Could not win for losing. Oh Well,

No back to the important stuff. I will try a higher powder charge and relube after I size them. I did try a lower charge today, and I did not lead the bore up at all. But it would not cycle the action. Boy the accuracy on it sucked too. I was shooting at a target 75 yards away and it would hit a mile from the target. Oh well I will keep trying.. By the way, I am using this as an excuse to go to the range and shoot everything else too. I took my kids out today, and they shot the .22's alot. Then I broke out the Nagant and made big rocks to little rocks. And the Same with the garand. That is one sweet rifle. I am trying to get my armorer to sign for a M14, I told him I would give him just about anything he wants if he can get me one. I would even buy the magazines for it too. Man that would be sweet. I digress, sorry

[carpetman]

Commostud---If you are hitting a mile from the target with a 9mm, I'd say you need to aim lower.

[armyrat1970]

I am deploying to afganystan. And NO I will not be able to take any firearms that I own. Believe me when I say I have tried. I have had military lawyers say no, commanders, brigade commanders, and just about everyone who matters say NO. I have also tried to get them to let me bring something home. They still said NO. Could not win for losing. Oh Well,

No back to the important stuff. I will try a higher powder charge and relube after I size them. I did try a lower charge today, and I did not lead the bore up at all. But it would not cycle the action. Boy the accuracy on it sucked too. I was shooting at a target 75 yards away and it would hit a mile from the target. Oh well I will keep trying.. By the way, I am using this as an excuse to go to the range and shoot everything else too. I took my kids out today, and they shot the .22's alot. Then I broke out the Nagant and made big rocks to little rocks. And the Same with the garand. That is one sweet rifle. I am trying to get my armorer to sign for a M14, I told him I would give him just about anything he wants if he can get me one. I would even buy the magazines for it too. Man that would be sweet. I digress, sorry

M14. Sweet. Love them. First weapon I trained on. Later switched to the 16A1 before deployment to Nam in '70. Liked them too but still have a sweet spot in my heart for the 14.
You take care over there 'Bro and let the troops know we back here support them All The Way.

[fredj338]

for the most part poly barrels don't like lead. They will all lead up and have to be cleaned much ssomer than a reg barrel. I still shoot lead out of mine but i do clean them out every hundred or so.
If you size your heads over 357 you can start to effect reliability as the chamber gets dirty, it get tighter.

This is the issue. Poly rifling does not like lead bullets. I shot quite a few in my G17 trying to find what would work. I cast them hard & run them @ 1150fps for best results. Try water dropping, sized to 0.356, load o/ 5gr of Unqiue & see if things don't improve.

[commostud]

This is the issue. Poly rifling does not like lead bullets. I shot quite a few in my G17 trying to find what would work. I cast them hard & run them @ 1150fps for best results. Try water dropping, sized to 0.356, load o/ 5gr of Unqiue & see if things don't improve.

I will try this. I am currently dropping them in cold water as they fall out of the mold. Then I size them to .356. But I am going to try to lube again after sizing and I will try 5 grs. Unique. I currenlt have no problem in My HK 45 with lead bullets. I love the lead. Its cheap. Thanks

[fecmech]

Commo---- I just went back over the thread and have not seen any instance of you trying anything larger than .356. I've shot literally thousands of cast rounds through a Khar with poly rifling with no leading to speak of. Since I see no reference to you slugging the barrel I would suggest lubing some bullets as cast and shooting them without sizing. Your leading problem may be as simple as that.