Thoughts on H&R Buffalo Classic

[thx997303]

I am looking at at possibly buying a H&R Buffalo Classic in 45-70, and was wondering what kind of experience others have had with them.

If it's anything like my single shot 12 guage from them, it should be a nice rifle.

Thoughts?

[DennisB]

I've had mine for about a year now and will never part with it! Just got a 535gr Postell mold going and can't wait to see what it does with those.

[redneckdan]

I have one, I like it. Kicks the living snot out of me with hot loads but is very accurate.

[DLCTEX]

Kicks like a mule and that curved butt plate is wicked. It could use a longer throat also. This is from experience with a friend's rifle.

[thx997303]

the curved butts never bothered me, I have small shoulders.

Long as it's accurate and wont break on me.

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Recoil is on the UGLY Side using full house BP loads.

It's not legal in any NRA event, Might be ok in CAS stuff or the gun shoots, But I have never seen anyone ever place or do well with one of them even at Gong Shoots.

KW
The lunger

[SharpsShooter]

I am looking at at possibly buying a H&R Buffalo Classic in 45-70, and was wondering what kind of experience others have had with them.

If it's anything like my single shot 12 guage from them, it should be a nice rifle.

Thoughts?

First off, they are very accurate rifles with a wide variety of bullet weights and types. They are both black powder and paper patch friendly as well.

If you buy one, remove the buttplate to reveal the through bolt hole and fill it with tightly packed #8 shot. This adds to weight to reduce recoil and improves balance too. The sights are "ok" for hunting and plinking those gongs Kenny mentions. But if you want to reach out a bit, plan on sight replacement. Tang types can be installed as well as period correct scopes.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r255/SharpsShooter_photos/base2.jpg
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12869&d=1239555683
SS

[725]

SharpsShooter,
Just exactly which tang sight is that one in the photo? Have had discussion with other members about tang sights and probably can't afford one, but that looks like a dandy.
725

thx997303,
By the way, they are great rifles. From mild to wild, they do alot. From shooting round balls (.457 RB pushed into a case with small amouts of Unique powder - like 8 or 9 grains of Unique) to 535 Postnells. I love mine. It can do everything from squirrels to bison to target competition. Just depends on what youu feed it.

[nicholst55]

Definitely plan on lengthening the throat a bit if you want to shoot heavyweight bullets. I thoroughly enjoy mine.

I also installed a tang rear sight on mine, although I went about it just a bit differently. I inlaid two (female) threaded brass posts into the stock, and attached the sight to them, with the sight base inletted flush with the wood. Looks good, works well. Track of the Wolf carries many different tang sights; prices range from downright reasonable to quite spendy:

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(3lxhvsn2tl5rnj2t1w011lvx))/categories/partList.aspx?catID=14&subID=167&styleID=770

[cajun shooter]

They are a fun gun that will give you many fun times. They are as Kenny W noted not legal in certain matches. If you use it for what it was intended you will be pleased. The negative side is the weight of the rifle, which at 8 lbs is not good for cases full of BP and heavy bullets. You can have a leather shop make you a butt pad that ties on and put a shock absorbing material inside. This will increase the LOP. Fill the stock with shot or a Mercury cylinder. The first thing you should do is make sure the forearm is not touching. Place a plastic washer on the bolt to take of this. Last is that the gun can be used for hunting with bullets in the 3-400 range. I also mounted the Marble's tang sight on mine using the brass threaded inserts on the tang.

[thx997303]

Ok, so add shot to the stock, sights are ok, lengthen the throat if I want to shoot 500 gr. Not legal in some competitions.

Sounds good, I intend to hunt with it anyway.

[Junior1942]

Ok, so add shot to the stock, sights are ok, lengthen the throat if I want to shoot 500 gr. Not legal in some competitions.

Sounds good, I intend to hunt with it anyway.I found the 32" barrel un-Handi for deer hunting in the thickets. The 22" barrel works well in thickets.

Both my 32" & 22" 45-70 barrels much prefer the Lee 450 FP in pure lead over Pyrodex RS and a felt wad. If you have some WC860 you can load it exactly like black powder or Pyrodex except you'll need a heavy crimp for complete powder consumption.

[Dframe]

Good information. Thanks Junior. I may have to try that in my old shikari

[NickSS]

I have several handi rifles but not a buffalo classic. I do have a 38-55 one that shoots just fine and it is similar to the BC. I also have a 22 inch barrel on one in 45-70. This is my hunting rifle as long barrels are hard to lug around in heavy timber. I have shot several BC in 45-70 and they all shot very well. Except for being too light weight for target shooting they are great rifles. By all means fill the butt hole with lead shot. It will improve balance and add weight for those heavy loads.

[SharpsShooter]

SharpsShooter,
Just exactly which tang sight is that one in the photo? Have had discussion with other members about tang sights and probably can't afford one, but that looks like a dandy.
725


IIRC that is a C.S.A. (C Sharps Arms) vernier.

SS

[thx997303]

I feel stupid asking, but I am unfamiliar with the cartridge.

The 45-70 is always loaded with blackpowder right?

[wills]

I feel stupid asking, but I am unfamiliar with the cartridge.

The 45-70 is always loaded with blackpowder right?

No. It is commonly available, loaded with smokeless, to black powder pressures and ballistics, so it is safe to fire in older riles,

[725]

thx997303,
There are many loadings besides black powder in the .45-70. The Buff Classic is capable of many of them. A good reload manual will give you a wide variety to try, smokeless and black powder work well in it.

[azrednek]

With my ageing eyesight with the Buffalo Classic's long barrel I can get the sights in focus. I don't own one or have I shot one. I got a good look at one at the recent NRA Convention and I've been looking to do some horse trading for one since then. I hope to have one some time this year.

[jack19512]

I had a buffalo Classic but sold it. I liked it OK and it shot reasonably well but sold it and bought a Marlin 1895 CB and have never regretted it. For whatever reason the Marlin shoots more accurately than the BC and for me the single shot was a pain.

[cajun shooter]

jack19512, Why is one shot a pain? I've never needed more in my 62 yrs of life while hunting. I had a 13 yr old boy ask me a question at the deer camp back in 1986. He said Mr. David why is it that we hear you shoot one time and you come back with a deer and the others shoot a bunch of times and they come back with stories? I've always thought that if you have more than one shot it leads to bad marksmanship. Now I'm not saying that this is you in any way sir as I don't know you. I'm talking in general with the average shooter. When the 742 ruled the woods I would laugh every time a deer came down the stand row. Some shooters were firing faster than it was possible to have a sight picture. I'm also a lover of the lever action rifle and have 4 of them. My point was that one shot is no penalty for hunting.

[jack19512]

jack19512, Why is one shot a pain? I've never needed more in my 62 yrs of life while hunting.








That's a fair question to ask. I used my BC a lot to target shoot. And this has been mentioned from others that have used the break open single shot rifles as well as myself, I just got tired of going through all of the process that it entails of shooting a lot of 5 shot groups.

Probably just a personal thing but I don't miss it a bit. As far as the hunting part goes I have always considered myself to be a pretty fair shot but regrettably I cannot brag about the one shot one kill 100% of the time like some can. After all I am just human. :mrgreen:

[thx997303]

I've always loved large bore rifles in single shot, some of the heavier recoilers may have the ability of a second shot, but I've never had the need or desire for a follow up.

I don't shoot at fast moving targets with a hunting rifle.

[jack19512]

I have had 3 of the H&R rifles. I had the Buffalo Classic 45/70, the Ultra Varmint .223. and the 17 mach 2. Although all of them shot OK none were excellent as far as the accuracy goes.

Again, I can't brag like some of you can as far as the one shot one kill goes. I have made a lot of the one shot one kill shots just not every time. I sold the BC and bought the Marlin 1894 45/70 CB and have not regretted it at all.

I sold the Ultra Varmint .223 and bought a Stevens .223 and have not regretted it at all. I sold the H&R 17 mach 2 and bought a Savage 17 mach 2 and have never regretted it.

All of the rifles I purchased to replace the H&R rifles shoot more accurately. And yes, I tried all of the H&R fixes to no avail. For the money they are a reasonable buy but in my opinion if the extra money is there, there are just too many better choices.

I know it must sound like I don't like the H&R rifles but this isn't the case. It's just that in my opinion, and I do have experience with 3 of them I can do better. The original poster wanted info from everyone concerning the BC and this is my opinion.

I was on Graybeard's forum for a while and I was always reading about the problems others were having with their rifles. There are always going to be those that don't ever need a follow up shot(not me)and there are always going to be those that swear up and down that their H&R rifle is one of the most accurate rifles they have ever had(not me)so like it or not I am just telling it like I saw it. I have no desire to ever purchase anymore of the H&R rifles myself but would never fault anyone that does.

[nicholst55]

I honestly believe that a single-shot rifle can lead to better marksmanship. Note that I said can, not does. Practice and familiarity with a rifle (any rifle) usually does lead to better marksmanship. When I started burning black powder I found that by the time I had my rifle sighted in and an accurate load developed, I was a pretty fair shot with it. I attribute that to two things - consistency, and practice.

Nothing new or earth-shattering in what I just wrote - it all goes back to the old saying 'beware of the man who only owns one gun - he probably knows how to use it.'

[jack19512]

I don't own as many rifles as a lot of the members here do, I think I have around 25 or so and around 10 handguns but the only firearms that have earned the right to stay in my gun safe are the firearms that I am mostly happy with.

I am getting too old and life is just too short to hold onto a firearm that does not please me to a reasonable extent. If my memory serves me correctly when it came to the H&R rifles the two main concerns I had with them was the single shot break open design which I admit is just a personal thing, and consistency as far as accuracy goes. I sincerely hope if the op gets the BC he is totally satisfied with it.

[jack19512]

Oh, you guys that make these one shot one kill shots know that you can do that with a bolt or lever gun too don't you? :bigsmyl2:

[cajun shooter]

jack19512, That was not bragging about one shot kills but pure and honest fact. My cowboy name is Fairshake and it means that I will never do anything to cheat or hurt my fellow man. I don't lie and will back that up with loads of proof. The one shot kill is very easy to pull off. If you can't be 100% sure that you kill with the shot given then you don't take it. It's that simple. There are no longer men who hunt so that they can eat. If you let the animal walk he will be another days hunt. I hunted with a club that shot only 8 point and above and we weeded out all the shoot im up members by imposing heavy fines. If you shoot a illegal deer you are fined $250 and you must mount him also paying for the mount. You also give up your right to any meat as that deer is put in the camp meat locker. We had two members that had to pay and we lost some but the ones who stayed made good hunters. Why shoot and loose the deer to rot in the woods?

[JesterGrin_1]

Cajun I can not agree more. But the problem is there are many hunters but not many Hunter Shooters.

I mostly Hunt with my Marlin 1895GS in 45-70. But when I do I have only two rounds in the gun. The extra is incase of a snake lol.

I do keep a few extra in my pocket incase I am lucky and run into some Hogs at the same time. :)

But like you my big thing is to put down game as fast as I can to limit how much they suffer and how much I would suffer if I had to chance them down.

But as you said I have run into many so called hunters that will bang away at anything that moves.

[JesterGrin_1]

As for Single Shot Guns look into how many Ruger No 1's and 3's are around. The people that use such Rifle's take great care on how they place that one shot. :) But it should not matter if a gun can hold 1 round or 100 rounds each shot taken should be done as if that is the only round you have.

But hey what do I know lol.

[jack19512]

jack19512, That was not bragging about one shot kills but pure and honest fact. My cowboy name is Fairshake and it means that I will never do anything to cheat or hurt my fellow man.







I never doubted you or anyone else, you're taking this way too serious and personal. I also know people that have had to take more than one shot to put the animal down, that's a fact, and they are good shots. It just happens. I'm sure there are people on this board that has taken more than one shot to do it also whether they want to admit it or not. You kind of make it sound like if you take more than one shot then you are an unethical hunter! No one is perfect and no situation is either, stuff happens. I don't lie either, that is why I admit I have had to take that second shot before. I'm not even gonna go into this "But the problem is there are many hunters but not many Hunter Shooters" crap.

[RMulhern]

Hmmm.....if this were my only option I'd go back to the longbow!!:killingpc

[largom]

As a kid I had a single shot rifle and shotgun. I got ONE box of shells for each per year. I hunted for meat, we ate what I killed. I chose my shots VERY carefully, if the range was too far I crawed closer on my belly.
I have a walk-in gun safe that is full of bolt actions and single shots with 2 pump shotguns, NO AUTO'S. I love my single shots including the BC 45-70. I just turned 66 yrs.old and,knock on wood, I haver lost a game animal or had to take a follow up shot. Single shots make you a better hunter and shooter IMO.
Larry

[parrott1969]

When I hunt I take my AK and four thirty round mags! Every once in a while I manage to hit the deer!

[Trifocals]

I have a BC .45-70. Purchased it from a hunting buddy whose passion always has been to try something else. I haven't shot it much. Initially I shot it with some loads I had made up for my 1885 Marlin. 100 yd groups were very acceptable for hunting. Then another friend handed me (5) rounds of his favorite load. All I know is the bullet was the Lyman 457122, the recoil was very tolerable and the 100 yd (5) shot group was one very small ragged hole. The BC seems to be one fine shooting rifle, with the right load. I am soon to dig out a PP swaging die that I purchased from Larry Blackmon and have never used. PP in the BC should work out very well once I get all my ducks in a row. :drinks:

[shaner]

ive owned a few of the BC 45/70 found if you reload the 45/70 with a 300 gr lead and 12 gr of green dot powder its a joy to shoot , full house factoru loads will jar your teeth loose

[Lumpie]

As most of you know by now that Remington bought Nef. I had the good luck to have one of these given to me as a gift. I have several rifles in 45 Cal. They are as follows. 1885 Highwall 45-90. 32 inch barrel. 1885 Highwall 45-90 Uberti 32 inch Barrel. 1886 Browning. This rifle was converted into pistolgrip, so as to have a recoil pad installed. A Nef BC 32 inch barrel Tang sights on all of the afore mentioned. Now my point that I am going to make, is that the cost of a rifle, does not always spell how accurate it will shoot. I would like to state before I go on with this, is that I am not an expert in anything. I have been casting, and shooting for over fifty years, and the first thing that I learned was that most bullet molds are worthless. They drop bullets boresize. Now as most you know the excepted rule of thumb is .002-.003 over bore size. Now if you have the misfortune of owning a mold that drops bore size, and the barrel slugs .002 overwhat do we do? We could bump, but this is like having a car wreck. Start out with a good bulett, and wind up with something else. I have the fortune of having one of my late Fathers H&G molds. 6 cavity 385gr. FB.mold #399-4 Comes out of the mold .464 I make my own alloy.9lbs. dead lead. 1lb Nickel Babbit. This material is used to make high speed bearings. They look like lone ranger bullets. Hard as hub of hell. Now the Bc. If you shoot bullet that are sized .458-.459, you will just get mediocre accuracy. My barrel slugged .4595. I slug bullets .462 Shoots with as good accuracy, as guns that cost 10 times as much. Point is if you have the skills to shoot, and the knowledge of how to get your ducks in line, then this rifle is just the ticket. Best thing about the BC, is most everyone can afford one. Also you can go on line to NEF.barrelprogram.com. It will blow your mind at the cost of the replacement barrels. Most affordable for anyone. I purchased a 12ga turkey barrel 3 and one half inch. 28ga. barrel. and a 38-55 barrel for my Bc.. If anyone of you need a very good tang sight, just call the man that gave me this rifle. His name is Tom Chase. He lives in Okla. City Okla. (405) 635-0101. Now I am in no way an expert. Just tried, and true methods I use. Lumpie

[Lead Fred]

Happiness is a warm 45/70

Tho I walk through the valley of death, I fear not,

For I am the biggest **** in the valley! [smilie=w:

[Lumpie]

I have two barrel in 45/70, so I decided to have one chambered out to 45/120 Had this done so I could test it out on anything from 45/65 to 45/120 If it does not pan out,Ican use it for the 45/120 only. I had a recoil pad installed on it. I will probably need it. I will post what my experiment will bring. Lumpie

[montana_charlie]

Nothing new or earth-shattering in what I just wrote - it all goes back to the old saying 'beware of the man who only owns one gun - he probably knows how to use it.'
Seeing that 'old saying' reminds me...

We have a member who spends some time writing gun-related pieces for publication. His 'signature' on a different forum has always nettled me, and now I know why.

I had to go there to copy/paste this so I was sure to get it right, but he believes we should...
"Beware the man with one rifle. He may not have enough interest in it to be competent!"

CM

[jack19512]

"Beware the man with one rifle. He may not have enough interest in it to be competent!"







Or could be that's the only one he can afford. :smile:

[New2daGame]

How would i go about pitting a vernier tang sight on a H&R Buffalo Classic. I see one on the first page and am interested the process of doing this to my Buffalo Classic. thanks for the advise.

[docone31]

Why would you want to do that?
Better with a reciever sight.

[nicholst55]

Why would you want to do that?
Better with a reciever sight.

I would say that depends entirely on what range(s) you plan to shoot at. If 200 yards is your limit, then either a receiver sight or the factory sight is more than adequate. If you want to stretch things out a bit, say to 600 yards, then I doubt if a receiver sight will have enough elevation adjustment when the trajectory of the .45-70 is taken into consideration. I may be mistaken on this, because I haven't actually shot mine that far away yet, so please correct me if I am mistaken.

One other reason would be because it looks cool. ;-)

[New2daGame]

I love my Buffalo Classic and have always wanted a Creedmoor sight. I have found them and on the first page of this thread there is a buffalo classic with a tang sight. I like th eset-up and want to put the vernier sight on my rifle. I just need to know how to do it. I need to know what to tell the gunsmith.

[RayinNH]

New, I did a similar thing as your wanting to do. My brother put the action in his milling machine. You have to level the wrist of the stock, we did this by trial and error. Find the center point of the action, now crank the table until you get to the wrist. In my case I used a piece of brass .125" thick by .5" wide and about 2.5" long. Yours will be similar. Use a milling cutter and cut to the depth, width and length of your material. I epoxied mine in and used a short countersunk wood screw in the center to hold the piece while the glue dried. The screw will be covered by the sight. Be sure you drill and tap the piece to match your sight before gluing in.

Quite frankly any gunsmith worth his salt will know what to do once you tell him what your after...Ray

[New2daGame]

Thanks again for the info. I am going to take it to him this week. I really want to see it with the new sight on it.

[pls1911]

A friend of mine loves his HRBC, except for the recoil.
Pads, lead shot in the stock, and mercury recoil reducers just didn't make enough difference, especially when compaired to my 14 pound sharps...
His solution ?
Through some connections, he managed to procure a perfectly dimensioned, machined to spec slug of tungston.. 3/4" x 8 ish inches... a nearly four pound increase right now.
He's anxious to go shoot.

[school of mines]

The attached picture shows the williams adjustable rear sight on my Buffalo Classic. The one thing unique about this rifle is that it likes HARD boolits! I tried some range lead scrap out of the lyman 457124 mold and the rifle grouped horribly! Then tried some hard cast Lee's 405, 450, Postell and 500 gr GCs and it shot 3/4" groups at 50 yards. I think this is due to the shallow rifling of the bore.

I use a Past recoil pad when I shoot this off the bench. 20 Rounds with that metal buttplate and I've had enough!

[RMulhern]

1874 Sharps are what all THE OTHER RIFLES wanna be when they grow up!!

[Dakoma]

The attached picture shows the williams adjustable rear sight on my Buffalo Classic. The one thing unique about this rifle is that it likes HARD boolits! I tried some range lead scrap out of the lyman 457124 mold and the rifle grouped horribly! Then tried some hard cast Lee's 405, 450, Postell and 500 gr GCs and it shot 3/4" groups at 50 yards. I think this is due to the shallow rifling of the bore.

I use a Past recoil pad when I shoot this off the bench. 20 Rounds with that metal buttplate and I've had enough!

Does all the 45-70 H&R rifles have the shallow rifleing or is it just the Clasic that is that way because of the longer barrel ? I read the article in Rifle or Handloader Magazine where the Clasic was used to take a Buffalo and it did mention the shallow rifleing but said it was also acurate.I had sent my reciever off to Marts Custom Guns here in Tennessee to have fitted a 38-55 barrel and the 45-70 Clasic barrel and he stole my reciever along with many more and was told they were sold in 2 states,filed charges but nothing happened and I may send my 223 barrel and see about getting another reciever and a few more barrels fitted also.He also got me for $333.00.Often wondered if the Win.375 could be shot in a 38-55 H&R or NEF as they are called today.

[tacklebury]

I am looking at at possibly buying a H&R Buffalo Classic in 45-70, and was wondering what kind of experience others have had with them.

If it's anything like my single shot 12 guage from them, it should be a nice rifle.

Thoughts?

I love mine! I need to do a tiny bit of tuning on my forearm as I cannot tighten it down or it won't group. Especially, make sure you cool her down in between groups. I have lately been playing with .457 Round Ball loads and having fun with those. I picked up a slip on Limbsaver small shoulder pad, so as not to mess with the look of the stock, because when shooting stouter loads that metal butplate really starts talking to you. I am mainly using RL7, although I'm playing with BP some and also Unique for the round balls. I have found that some of the light loads listed for normal handi-rifles barely exit the barrel and have settled on 11.2gr Unique with the round ball gives pretty good accuracy with enough oomph to hit a 10" target gong at 100yards. This isn't a deer load of course, but something to carry for varmints and taking out ground hogs at my grandpa's house. 8)

[nicholst55]

FWIW, for those who don't like the straight stock on these rifles, the stock from the Topper Trap Gun and the Topper Deluxe Classic will drop right in; they are walnut, pistol grip stocks, with recoil pads. The Trap Gun stock has cut checkering and features pretty wood, and retails for around $75. I have the part number here somewhere, if anyone is interested - PM me and I'll hunt it down.

I recently ordered one for my BC; I'm going to install a better quality vernier tang sight this time.

http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/toppertrap.asp

[Ljohn]

I'm new to this forum but thought I'd give you my .02 cents worth about the Buffalo Classic - I have the predecessor to the H&R - a Wesson & Harrington Buffalo Classic. Bought it specifically for BPC shooting and am having a great time getting it dialed in. Using Missouri Bullet Co 405 gr hard cast ( 18 BH ) and 65 gr of FFg through a drop tube with a 45 cal Wonder Wad. Recoil was manageable but troublesome from the bench so took a trip to the local hardware store to purchase 8.5" of 3/4" copper tubing. Poured it full of melted lead and it slid perfectly into the stock hole. This added 2lbs to the rifle which makes very comfortable to shoot with the above load. I've ordered a Williams FP aperture rear/front sight set since the blade and rear notch setup that came with it is too course for longer shots. This 100 yard group was not bad with open sights - the one flyer being my fault from canting the rifle - but I think it will do better with the new sight setup. The shallow rifling seems to take the hard cast bullet fine but wiping between shots is mandatory. I've had two Sharps replicas which were awesome, but this one is just good cheap fun and is built like a tank - capable of firing modern jacketed loads if you so desire. I would not hesitate recommending one as a first single shot rifle. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/ljohnwa/Guns/WH1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/ljohnwa/Guns/405grbullet.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/ljohnwa/Guns/45-70100yrdgroup.jpg

[Bob S]

A friend of mine loves his HRBC, except for the recoil.
Pads, lead shot in the stock, and mercury recoil reducers just didn't make enough difference, especially when compaired to my 14 pound sharps...
His solution ?
Through some connections, he managed to procure a perfectly dimensioned, machined to spec slug of tungston.. 3/4" x 8 ish inches... a nearly four pound increase right now.
He's anxious to go shoot.

The original Creedmoor rules specified a 10 lb rifle max with a plain trigger that had to hold 3 lbs; no set trigeers. Nearly all rifles that are used in BPCR "Creedmoor" these days are not authentic to the period. I guess the guys that shot in 1874-1880 were "tough". :)

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Swampman]

I really like the Handi but the Buffalo Classic is too heavy IMO.

[RMc]

It seems like the 45-70 with a 32 inch barrel would be perfect as an Urban Deer Rifle. Say 405 grains @ 900 fps with Trail Boss should be very quiet with that long barrel. Has anyone tried this combination?

[Swampman]

Mine shoots great with 34 grains of IMR-4198 under a 405 grain Remington bullet.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d34/Woodsman1956/NEF/100_2427.jpg

[thx997303]

Ha, this thread is still alive.

I ended up buying the Marlin 1895 Guide gun.

Though I'm still thinking about the BC.

[rfd]

keepin' the thread alive ... :mrgreen: [smilie=s:

the 45-70 is a reasonably versatile and fun caliber that can go from rimfire mild to bone-bustin' wild, with regards to recoil, by choosing the appropriate powder and lead. i load trail boss, aa5744 and imr4198, with lead from 350 to 535 grains. they're all capable of good to excellent accuracy from 50 to 100 yards, and beyond. the trigger is not adjustable and can be lightened (with care), or just shoot the thing a bunch and it'll smooth out. i've found that the trigger break on most handi's is crisp.

the longer 32" barrel of the buff classic allows for a better iron sight picture and aiming. whether or not that length is suitable for hunting is up to the shooter/hunter. as is, and if the barrel length isn't an issue, it's hunting ready. the only concern might be recoil with lever or ruger power loads, and that can easily be tamed with stock weight/mercury and/or a slip-on butt recoil pad - been there, done that with both.

going the longer distances - the supplied rear and front sights work very well out to maybe 200 yards or so, depending on the cartridge load. reaching out longer with iron sights requires a receiver sight change, to perhaps a better williams or a smith ladder. i know of one person who installed a tang sight and did quite well with it out to 1000 yards ... however, since the bc uses a break open receiver/barrel, and since the tang sight is located on the stock, there *may* be alignment issues since both the sight and barrel sit on two different moving parts of the rifle. i use a smith ladder peep, which is good for 1000 yards (yeah, right - never happen). it's draw back is no instant windage adjustment (dovetail that requires a punch 'n' hammer). for the iron sight challenged, use an h&r scope base and hammer spur, and pick whatever glass ya like - been there, done that too.

i have both the 32" buffalo classic (used with iron) and 24" ultra hunter (used with glass). both shoot just fine for me. you won't know 'til you try 'em, either. ymmv.

http://i.imgur.com/QMQHQzt.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/jETPzUf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GoHAryd.jpg

[Texantothecore]

I love my Buffalo Classic, it will shoot anything I load and will shoot them well.

Need a different caliber? Get a new barrel and install it.

It really is a wonderful rifle, a lifetime of entertainment.

[Lefty Red]

I want one, til I win the lottery and get my Sharps! :)

I would put a Limbsaver on it and cut it down to 28" and scope it. That should make a fun gun for crop control season!

Lefty

[Zubley]

Love my B/C , it's a blast to shoot.For reduce loads i made some 45/50 loads.Cut down 45/70 case to 1.625 and loaded with 12.0grs of Trail Boss.Sweet load on steel targets to 100yds

[f350 caster]

I love my B/C and will never part with it. However I noticed that the leverevolution cartridges kick way worse than some nice 405-500 grain cast. Cant wait to start casting for it (still scrounging lead).

[pls1911]

As noted above, it's light for caliber, but a great shooter with 300-400 grain bullets in the 1300fps range.
Crank it up with heavy bullets and it will hurt you.
Friend made VAST improvements to his with a combination of added lead shot and a mercury recoil reducer normally used in shot guns.
Bottm line, it's a great fun gun which can be made better with very little effort.

[pworley1]

You should be in for a lot of fun. I have had one since they came out a few years ago, and it likes almost any light to moderate load smokeless or black powder.

[chazmatic]

Very good rite up and very good Bible verses

[rfd]

back around one more time ....

not to beat a dead horse, but the buff classic is a really fine s/s rifle that can hang in there with the best of them, if you do your part.

the trigger weight out of the box is Hefty, maybe 6# or so. but that will lessen over shooting time, or you can do as some folks do and manually work the trigger (not dry firing!) with a bit of graphite while watching the boob tube. also, there are at least two good processes of taking the trigger apart and working it down to around 3# or so (thought about doing that, but i think it's a bit tricky and might actually shorten the trigger life, ymmv on that).

i haven't messed with bpcr with this rifle, but will do eventually. currently still using aa5744 under 405 and 535 postell boolits.

love this rifle, and i always bring it along to the range with other rifles and bang out at least a few rounds.

http://i.imgur.com/1XgaFVG.jpg

[dlbarr]

Yep, I love my H&R 45/70. Bought it new with the short barrel. Very first shot right out of the box with Remington 350gr HP shot dead center of the bullseye @ 50 yds. (I've never shot that good since)

I've since put a Williams aperture sight on it. And sent it back to H&R for the BC barrel. They both shoot great with any number of different loads, BP or smokeless, cast boolits or jacketed or even RBs. Too much fun. I will say that with the factory butt pad, it was brutal with factory loads. I had a Kick-eez pad installed and it's waaay​ better now!

[Kynoch]

jack19512, Why is one shot a pain? I've never needed more in my 62 yrs of life while hunting. I had a 13 yr old boy ask me a question at the deer camp back in 1986. He said Mr. David why is it that we hear you shoot one time and you come back with a deer and the others shoot a bunch of times and they come back with stories? I've always thought that if you have more than one shot it leads to bad marksmanship. Now I'm not saying that this is you in any way sir as I don't know you. I'm talking in general with the average shooter. When the 742 ruled the woods I would laugh every time a deer came down the stand row. Some shooters were firing faster than it was possible to have a sight picture. I'm also a lover of the lever action rifle and have 4 of them. My point was that one shot is no penalty for hunting.

That would depend what one is hunting. With dangerous game the "penalty" might be a life -- one's own or somebody else.

[Kynoch]

My deer rifle for decades has been a Remington 700 BDL chambered for 30-06. It looks like it's going to be my nephew's favorite loaner so I thought I might look into a H&R BC. Everything looks great to me -- the chambering, the sights, the barrel length and especially the fact it's a single shot (and not because I'm an exquisite shot.)

I only have one question. Is it sort of a kludge of a gun? Are the receivers nothing more than leftover H&R shotgun receivers or are they actually completely different mechanisms? Thanks for any insight on the matter.

[jonp]

That would depend what one is hunting. With dangerous game the "penalty" might be a life -- one's own or somebody else.

Because everyone hunts dangerous game with a 45-70 BC and iron sights

[725]

Kynoch - It's all in the eye of the beholder. It's the same few numbers of bullet proof, so to speak, internal parts in a case hardened frame. Those of us who like the BC, like the BC. It's not a Heeren or Farquharson Falling Block, or a Sharps Borchardt, it an H&R BC. Shoots like a dream for me and makes me smile when I outshoot some of my friends. All of my game, so far, (deer, hogs & bear) have fallen DRT with the one shot. As long as I do my part, I don't see why that performance won't continue.

[Kynoch]

Because everyone hunts dangerous game with a 45-70 BC and iron sights

Who suggested they do? Only you. Who inferred cajun shooter's comments were limited to this specific gun? Only you. Nice try but the comment "My point was that one shot is no penalty for hunting" is bull manure when offered in a universal sense. FWIW, iron sights alone are quite common on dangerous game rifles.

[Kynoch]

Kynoch - It's all in the eye of the beholder. It's the same few numbers of bullet proof, so to speak, internal parts in a case hardened frame. Those of us who like the BC, like the BC. It's not a Heeren or Farquharson Falling Block, or a Sharps Borchardt, it an H&R BC. Shoots like a dream for me and makes me smile when I outshoot some of my friends. All of my game, so far, (deer, hogs & bear) have fallen DRT with the one shot. As long as I do my part, I don't see why that performance won't continue.

I like many aspects of the BC -- simple single shot, 45-70 chambering, nice long barrel, the sights, etc. A very nice change from my semi-automatic/bolt-action world. I was just curious if the gun was a kludge from leftover parts?

I simply found the "one shot" diatribes on this thread to be amusing is all.

[brad925]

I have a BC in 45-70 for about ten years now. Its likes the 300gr HP and 4195 very well as well as the lee 405hb and 3031. Have never tried black in it but that's next. I like to take I out as a confidence booster when I feel crappy about myself and put 5 into one ragged hole. Do I like the gun? That's an understatement. I also have a hiwall and if I can get it to shoot as well as the BC I will be happy but its getting there. I don't compete other than with myself. Point is just because it don't have a high price tag don't mean its ****. Sure the trigger isn't nothing to brag about and it aint too stylish but it does the job it was meant to do and that's hit the bulleye. Now if your looking for a good looking wall hanger with lots of history or to just fit in with the in crowd.........this aint your gun. But hell I never wanted to fit in anyway i'm having to dam much fun just being myself!

[rfd]

imho, the ONLY issue with the H&R .45-70, and ALL H&R rifles for that matter, is the heavy trigger pull, with some above 6#. it's typical for the pull to be about 5.5#, as was on my buff classic. honing the sear and cleaning up/lubing the other wear surfaces and pins might get you down to 4# or so, some have actually been brave enuf to use files and gotten down to under 1#. to do this, you need to completely disassemble the action/trigger and that is not a job for most folks. the metal used for the trigger and hammer is only surfaced hardened and you may quickly have a trigger that constantly drops in pull weight to where it's not hunter nor target friendly. if the trigger was better, and i'd Gladly fork over another $100 on the purchase ticket price. if so, then the buff classic would be an ideal s/s for meat or long range paper.

[ogre]

I am considering getting one of these rifles. An associate has advised me against the purchase because they tend to, in his words, "shoot loose."

Really? Has anyone here experienced this problem?

[rfd]

I am considering getting one of these rifles. An associate has advised me against the purchase because they tend to, in his words, "shoot loose."

Really? Has anyone here experienced this problem?

nonsense. they shoot just fine. if by "loose" he means the action opens - yes, it will do that if you don't snap! it shut with authority. never had a problem with that in the 4 handi's i've owned and shot Lots.

i'll say again - all you really need to know and understand about h&r handi's (including the buff classic) is the hefty pull weight trigger. if you can live with that, the rifle is a winner in every respect.

[dlbarr]

Yep, ogre, same as rfd here. I have 3 NEF/H&Rs. Never had a "shoot loose" event.

[dagger dog]

Most of the "shooting loose" is caused by over lubing the locking lug, they have to be cleaned of any grease or oil in that area.

[johnson1942]

their must be a lot of buffalo classics out their because some one is posting all the time about them. most really like them and they are so easy to modify to your own needs. i throated mine and shoot paperpatch bullets only in it. i shortened the barrel to about 28 inches. i put on a long range buckhorn sight. i even added weight to the front for ballance by haveing a stout sleeve machined to slip over the barrel at midway point. i made a new forestock for it also. put on a ohio type trigger guard. i also put a nice lace up leather pad over the butt stock. has a real carbine look. almost looks like a wester lever action at first glance. i also to tightened up the action putting a 3 thousands shim stock on the pivot part of the barrel lug. it is very very accurate. i used to shoot reloader 7 in it but now ive switched to blackhorn 209 powder. not as bad of recoil and the 490 grain bullet i shoot in it goes fast enough. one doesnt need a magnum to drop a critter. in the future i would like to get a custom muzzle loader barrel made by smokeless muzzle loader inc. built for it. i want that in .45 cal 1/18 twist and at leaste 34 inches long. i want to for fun to shoot paperpatch in that with a scope at very long distances. they use douglas barrels and do a good job. it would also be a very good gun to hunt with during muzzle loader season. the buffalo classic is a lot of fun. i have a cpa 45/70 but i seem to shoot the buffalo classic more .

[dlbarr]

their must be a lot of buffalo classics out their because some one is posting all the time about them. most really like them and they are so easy to modify to your own needs. i throated mine and shoot paperpatch bullets only in it. i shortened the barrel to about 28 inches. i put on a long range buckhorn sight. i even added weight to the front for ballance by haveing a stout sleeve machined to slip over the barrel at midway point. i made a new forestock for it also. put on a ohio type trigger guard. i also put a nice lace up leather pad over the butt stock. has a real carbine look. almost looks like a wester lever action at first glance. i also to tightened up the action putting a 3 thousands shim stock on the pivot part of the barrel lug. it is very very accurate. i used to shoot reloader 7 in it but now ive switched to blackhorn 209 powder. not as bad of recoil and the 490 grain bullet i shoot in it goes fast enough. one doesnt need a magnum to drop a critter. in the future i would like to get a custom muzzle loader barrel made by smokeless muzzle loader inc. built for it. i want that in .45 cal 1/18 twist and at leaste 34 inches long. i want to for fun to shoot paperpatch in that with a scope at very long distances. they use douglas barrels and do a good job. it would also be a very good gun to hunt with during muzzle loader season. the buffalo classic is a lot of fun. i have a cpa 45/70 but i seem to shoot the buffalo classic more .

Johnson, I'd like to see a picture of this BC of yours.

[johnson1942]

thanks, pm sent

[katch1]

Yes they do tend to shoot loose anyone that owns one should get rid of it immediately by sending it to me so I can keep it from hurting anyone. Lol.
More rumors like that will fill my safe with cheap rifles

[johnson1942]

my son drove down from denver yesterday for a days visit. i let him shoot my 45/70 buffalo classic and he fell in love with it. he wants to get a 45/70 handi rifle to hunt in col. with. i told him if he gets the 45/70 handi rifle ill give him a custom 450 grain .451 paperpatch mould and two bottles of relaoder 7 to get him going. all he will need is a casting pot and dies. he has the scale and the rest. if he does it it will give me a reason to visit my grandkids and get him started casting and paperpatching. i also would get him a push through .451 reduceing die to true up all the bullets. he liked the idea you can buy all the diff barrels for the h and r/s and how fast it was to change the barrels.

[Bullet8542]

I have loved mine right out of the box, The Williams sights are "good" not great have not gotten around to adding a tang sight but it's on the list.
And she eats anything never an issue, And as for recoil I guess I just don't notice I shoot a lot of .300 Win and .50 BMG so I guess I just like pain. I will however try adding some shot to the stock I like a little weight at the end of rifles.

[gandydancer]

I have both in the H & R Buffalo rifles The 38/55 & the 45/70 the 45/70 I have had for years when I ordered it I also ordered a extra shotgun butt stock to match the forearm because I knew they could hurt you with the crescent butt. The 38/55 butt I left alone.I had the throats opened up on them both. and they shoot as well as I need for gong banging & paper punching. and loads of fun.

[glockmeister]

In about a month, my Handi, in 45-70 will be with me in my deer stand. I'm looking forward to filling the freezer and the wife wants lots of jerky, go figure. Y'all take care, John.

P.S. Gandydancer, do you work on a railroad track gang?

[big bore 99]

Like this old post. I love my buffalo classic. It can shoot 5 hole cloverleefs all day long at 100 yd. I put an old Redfield peep on the rear and a Lyman insert tunnel up front. Probably shot at least a thousand rounds thru it and still as tight as new. Just lately doing the paperpatch thing with it. Excellent deal for the money.

[Lonegun1894]

Excellent rifle, but I'm a bit prejudiced...

[725]

Fun to re-read this old thread. Gotta love the BC!

[kopperl]

One bit of advice-don't mix the loads for a #3 Ruger with loads for your H&R. It hurts!!!!!

[Texantothecore]

I use a past shoulder pad and it works fine.

[EDG]

In the case of multiple dangerous animals a repeater would be dangerous too - so why not just stay home?


Who suggested they do? Only you. Who inferred cajun shooter's comments were limited to this specific gun? Only you. Nice try but the comment "My point was that one shot is no penalty for hunting" is bull manure when offered in a universal sense. FWIW, iron sights alone are quite common on dangerous game rifles.

[Texantothecore]

Once you use one and speed load it you will understand just how fast multiple shots can stream out of that barrel.

[Coconino]

their must be a lot of buffalo classics out their because some one is posting all the time about them. most really like them and they are so easy to modify to your own needs. i throated mine and shoot paperpatch bullets only in it. i shortened the barrel to about 28 inches. i put on a long range buckhorn sight. i even added weight to the front for ballance by haveing a stout sleeve machined to slip over the barrel at midway point. i made a new forestock for it also. put on a ohio type trigger guard. i also put a nice lace up leather pad over the butt stock. has a real carbine look. almost looks like a wester lever action at first glance. i also to tightened up the action putting a 3 thousands shim stock on the pivot part of the barrel lug. it is very very accurate. i used to shoot reloader 7 in it but now ive switched to blackhorn 209 powder. not as bad of recoil and the 490 grain bullet i shoot in it goes fast enough. one doesnt need a magnum to drop a critter. in the future i would like to get a custom muzzle loader barrel made by smokeless muzzle loader inc. built for it. i want that in .45 cal 1/18 twist and at leaste 34 inches long. i want to for fun to shoot paperpatch in that with a scope at very long distances. they use douglas barrels and do a good job. it would also be a very good gun to hunt with during muzzle loader season. the buffalo classic is a lot of fun. i have a cpa 45/70 but i seem to shoot the buffalo classic more .

I missed this post and printed it to keep in the notebook for when my .38-55 buffalo classic loosens. A great rifle with either smokeless or BP.

[Lucky Joe]

Depends on what you want if's its a single shot the H&R will not look like or handle like a Sharps or other older period rifle. H&R goes back to 1871 and that is period enough for me. I have had a BC for several years and can find nothing wrong with it. I shoot a 350 gr. cast boolit and if in a safe area shoot starlings out of trees with that load. Also have put venison on the table - 1 shot.

[iplaywithnoshoes]

Way to resurect a 2 year old thread but I'll take a crack at it...

I received my Buffalo Classic this week. The stock was aligned just fine at the bottom of the receiver but misaligned at the top and I have no clue as to what kind of quality control that counts as. Case hardening is quite nice and barrel profiling is okay. The steel buttplate is loose and really exaggerates felt recoil. I'll need to refill the screw bosses with epoxy or something to get it back to a snug fit. The rifle was quite clean and only had 20 shots down the barrel so I took off the scope mount installed by the previous owner and mounted a Wesson and Harrington Long Range sight. There is no freebore cut into my rifle so I cannot take advantage of any bullets I have which have any significant bearing surface. I was getting apprehensive about what the rifle could do given my first impressions. I loaded up a few 405gr Coated Missouri Bullets and pan lubed them and put them over some Trail Boss. I also loaded some Blackhorn 209 under Lee 459-500-3R and went to the 100 yard line...

Trail Boss w/405gr

193946

Blackhorn 209 w/Lee 459-500 3R 475gr

193947

I don't think I feel like spending money on a Sharps, Roller, or High Wall anytime soon...

shoe

[dlbarr]

That's some good shooting there, shoe.

Had a question...not sure anyone will want to answer...in re-reading this old thread, I saw occasional mentions of "ruger-type loads". I have, on rare occasions, fired those kind of loads out of my HR 4570 barrels (I have three). Depending on the barrel, they range from stout to miserable to shoot.

Has anybody here fed their HR4570 a somewhat steady diet of ruger loads? If so, any bad stories as a result?

[Lonegun1894]

I used to feed my BC the kind of warm loads you're talking about, and the only problem was a bruised shoulder. The reason I switched to lighter loads was because I finally realized that I don't need elephant loads to hunt deer and hogs up close like I do. Both were equally accurate, and both put plenty of meat on my table, but the lighter loads were cheaper, more fun to shoot, and equally effective.

[iplaywithnoshoes]

That's some good shooting there, shoe.

Had a question...not sure anyone will want to answer...in re-reading this old thread, I saw occasional mentions of "ruger-type loads". I have, on rare occasions, fired those kind of loads out of my HR 4570 barrels (I have three). Depending on the barrel, they range from stout to miserable to shoot.

Has anybody here fed their HR4570 a somewhat steady diet of ruger loads? If so, any bad stories as a result?

Thank you dlbarr, it took me some time to get there. Likely the higher end lever action level loads are fine and MAYBE some Ruger #1 loads, seeing that the H&R Handi action has been fitted with barrels chambered in 300 Win Mag. The 300 can get up to 60KSI with a bolt face not too much smaller than the .45-70 so this rifle MIGHT be okay. We can do a little math to verify:

.45-70: .500" pressure bearing diameter: .1960 in^2 head area
.300 Win Mag: .532" case head: 0.2222 in^2 head area

.45-70: 50,000psi*.1960 in^2 = 9,800 lbs of bolt thrust
.300 Win Mag: 60,000psi*0.2222 in^2 = 13,332 of bolt thrust

Making the assumption that the .300 Win Mag is the limit for the frame, you probably CAN venture into the Ruger #1 loads but I would suggest consulting with H&R first.


I used to feed my BC the kind of warm loads you're talking about, and the only problem was a bruised shoulder. The reason I switched to lighter loads was because I finally realized that I don't need elephant loads to hunt deer and hogs up close like I do. Both were equally accurate, and both put plenty of meat on my table, but the lighter loads were cheaper, more fun to shoot, and equally effective.

My shoulder was bruised enough this session from the buttplate and light weight. It's worth it knowing that it shoots great though. Effective hunting range for a jacketed 405gr at 1300fps is 150 yards for deer and hog apparently so I don't know why people are punishing themselves with some of these heavy loads.

shoe

[daddski]

Oh, you guys that make these one shot one kill shots know that you can do that with a bolt or lever gun too don't you? :bigsmyl2:

lol but then we have to waste all that time unloading and reloading it over and over and over.It's just easier to go out knowing you have one round so you make sure that round hits home...

[daddski]

Great older thread guys n gals. Thanks for all the insights.. Mine is a 45/110 now since I decided 45/70 just wasn't enough punishment lol. I use homegrown bp and 540 grain home grown bullets although black hills outfitters makes a bullet it likes even more same basic weight. Or maybe I need more practice. Its fun at the range, everybody sees the blak smoke n hears the roar and comes over just begging to try it out. I don't mind its a blast I just stand behind them and catch them when it knocks them over (especially the little 223 crowd lol) The rifle hits whatever you aim it at out to around 700 beyond that my scope is not enough to even begin to figure out the drop etc. I use a cheap 12x56 scope I got for a present from amazon for 60 bucks. Thing is amazingly well made. Many many rounds down range and it just stays locked it. Has red and green lighted recticle with level adjustments too. I had a Leopold 9x40 and it was great but not enough for my eyes at distance. I was considering letting it go because I really want a sharps 1863 sport with that 32 inch barrel but might figure a different way to get the cash together. Anyway wanted to say thanks to all for your insights. Might post hundred yard groupings next time I go out if I remember the camera. Yes that's right I have no smart phone lol.......

[Dapaki]

I guess it's time to resurrect this old thread and gnaw on a yarn a bit.

I got a 12ga, .223 and the 1871 Buffalo Classic in 45-70 from H&R in the late 1990's. I still have them all and had another re-barreled with 357MAX but that is long gone. I'd give a bit for a 357 magnum though!

The 45-70 is the kids favorite, 4 boys would all stand in line waiting for their turn. The youngest (bean pole kind of child) got the gallery loads, the middle two (stout young men) liked the hunting loads (Federal 300gr) and the oldest giggles at the 400gr cast loaded to Ruger #1 loads. I dare not push the loads further, both for the guns sake and our shoulders!

I mounted a Creedmoor Vernier Tang Sight (long range, 5") on it and walked boolits up the dessert floor up to 1000 yards and used up every one of the 5 inches of travel that screw had! The spotter told me the boolits were coming in at better than 45 degrees and when we drove down to inspect the target, the ones that hit the target (don't get too exited, it was a massive abandoned Cat D9 blade) were still whole and banana shaped due to coming in from such a high angle.

I think I could have done better with a lighter boolit and more powder but these proved the point and made this a family heirloom.

The oldest grandchild eyed it up as her dad and I were cleaning the bore last month. Looks like its time to load some gallery loads again?

[725]

I've got a Wesson & Harrington 1871 Buffalo Classic. Bought it years ago and last year I put a Marbles tang sight on it, put it in the safe and haven't fired it yet. Just too much else to do. It's just such a good gun & fun to shoot. Have taken bear, deer & hogs with it, and although I know it's capable of those heavy shoulder busters, I've never had more than a trap door load through it. Funny thing I remember about it is that from the dealer, it had no sights afixed. Dove tail cut & drilled & tapped and all that, but as I guess, it was a new product, they didn't furnish sights. They are shooters for sure.

[John Boy]

OK, 11 years and 6 forum pages on the H&R 45-70 Buffalo Classic - my experience with the rifle:
* 20 years ago I bought a used BC with the 38-55 barrel. It was my 1st BP Cartridge single shot rifle and I didn't know squat about them
* Put mid range vernier on the stock and loaded 20 rounds of 525gr Postell's with 52 gr of Triple 7 and off to the range for it's first venture
* Took 15 rounds to get it sighted at 100 yds leaving 5 rounds left
* Went over to the club's 600 yd range to finish off the reloads
* It was hot as heck - cranked the vernier up to 152 MOA and proceeded to rapid fire at the target on the riser
* A club member shooting next to me with his 309 said, let's go down range to inspect our targets
* On my target in the 7 ring were 5 holes in a group that was about 4" x 5" with 3 holes that could have been covered by a silver dollar
I was confirmed that the Green Mountain barrel on the rifle was a winner and subsequent long range groups 200m out to 1000yds proved it's accuracy

This rifle started me on many thousands of dollars purchasing other single shot brake open/falling/rolling block BPC rifles of various makes and calibers including an old 1872 Stevens Tip Up in 32 Long rim fire