Plumbers Smelter

[Ranch Dog]

Anybody have one of these? Anybody know where I might find some parts or information for it?

http://home.awesomenet.net/~ranch-dog/Casting/smelter.jpg

I found this sitting in a local hardware store and bought it. If nothing else it makes a great decoration and conversation piece for the reloading room. I need to know what kind of fuel it uses and I might need some parts for it. The leathers that the pump uses to pressurize the tank needs to be replaced. I tried making them but haven't been successful. It would help if I could see what the originals looked like. Any info out there?

http://home.awesomenet.net/~ranch-dog/Casting/Images/Lemneck.jpg

I found this ad on the internet but apparently the company is long gone. I tried using camp stove fuel, what a mess. Ended up having to put the fire out with an extinguisher! IT WASN'T PRETTY, but it was the wreck people have come to expect from me :mrgreen:

[David R]

They are catalytic and use unleaded or back then they called it "WHITE " gas. I had the same expierence with one, the fire part. It may melt lead. All the ones I have seen are old and rusty. It might be better to keep that one in new conditoin. Propane is much easier.

David

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Michael,

For your gasket material you may find this outfit useful:

http://www.columbiaorgan.com/col/

I suspect you'll need chrome tanned heavy goatskin valve leather as your material.

Here's another outfit or two that may have what you need, though you'll probably have to buy the appropriate sized punch and glue to make it as thick as you need:

http://www.rgausa.com/product.htm

http://www.enginads.com/pedersen/

http://www.epm.com/leather.htm

If you can't make it and have the original gaskets, pm me for my address, send me one and I'll make it for you. I do leather working as a hobby and have most of the tools and know how to deal with the stuff.

If you have an Amoco gasoline outfit near you, their premium gasoline is likely what you need. It's as close to "white" gas as you'll find these days.

Regards,

Dave

[Dale53]

RanchDog;
What you need to do is find an old plumber (emphasis on old). He'll be able to guide you. I have used one of these years ago (borrowed from an OLD plumber) and it is quite efficient but I found it a bit scary to use (you now know what I mean).

I MUCH prefer using my Turkey Cooker for heat. It is considerably easier and, I believe, safer. If you had the original instructions, it would make it MUCH easier and safer for you to operate it.

I just had a thought. Send Bill Ferguson the information that you have presented here and ask him what you should do. His plumber's pot instructions may work. He may even have parts for yours. He is a very nice person and if approached right will probably help:

http://www.theantimonyman.com/

Dale53

[454PB]

I used one of these for many years. I used unleaded gasoline in mine. Always be sure it's full before firing it up, since filling it while it's hot is an invitation to disaster. I had to make a new leather seal for the pump, and as I recall I used a piece of leather from a work glove.

Here is the trick I found that really makes it a monster. If you notice, the pressure of the air/fuel mixture is multiplied by a pipe that is exposed to the fuel stream. I used one of the hand held propane torches to preheat that pipe. After a few minutes, the plumber's furnace will begin to roar almost like a jet engine as the air fuel mixture gets very hot and turns blue. Once that happens, the propane torch can be removed. Using this method, I could melt a 20 pound pot of wheelweights as fast as they could be put in the pot.
During one three hour session, I melted and poured 300 pounds of linotype letters into ingots on one filling of gasoline.

I wish I could find another one of these, they are getting harder to find. Mine got lost during my house move a few years ago.

[Duckiller]

If you need white gas , You can use Coleman fuel. Same thing ,works well.

[Ranch Dog]

Thanks guys for all the replies. I was out all day spraying food plots (for weeds).

Dave, I don't have the original leather and that is the problem. I have a lot of leather work gloves around here. I've been using camp fuel but as the unit heats up the fuel in the tank starts to expand and flows out around the pressure pump.

The thing is like a jet engine that is stuck at max thrust. Most who observe it run. Let me look through all the links and see what I can come up with.

[montana_charlie]

Ranch Dog,
All of the leather pump seals I am familiar with are cup-shaped...not just 'flat washers'.

You can get leather to take on a form by wetting it, placing it in a position where it must take the shape you want, and letting it dry slowly.
You can get a faster 'moulding action' by wetting with alcohol instead of water.

For your purpose, your leather shoulld probably be about 3/32 thick, and be of a size that allows you to match the diameter of the pump...with enough left at the edge to form a cup 1/8 to 1/4 inches deep.

Wet the leather, then stretch and massage it down onto the end of a dowel or broom handle which is somewhat smaller than the tube in the pump. If you have a snug-fitting ring prepared - such as a slice off of the end of a plastic pipe - it can be slipped over the leather to hold the side of the cup against the forming dowel until dry. The wooden dowel makes a good backing for trimming the leather to form the edge of the cup, and it cuts more easily when wet.

You'll need metal washers above and below the leather when you mount it on the end of the pump handle shaft. Normally, these are made of very thin metal. The top one should not touch the wall of the tube, and the one below the seal should be a close-but-not-tight fit inside the cup wall. The leather needs a little 'elbow room' to flex.

A drop of light oil in the leather will help it seal well when you assemble the pump, and will (for quite a long time) prevent it from drying out. Another drop every six months should keep it pliable.

as the unit heats up the fuel in the tank starts to expand and flows out around the pressure pump.
After pumping some pressure into the tank, it is usually necessary to close the valve between the tank and pump.
This is often done by turning the pump handle clockwise till it tightens up. Your unit may have a different mechanism.
And...you probably don't need 'a ton of pressure' in the tank to get started.

If all of this seems too complicated, send me the unit and I will repair the pump. However, due to the 'blow torch nature' of these units, I would need to test it - for about ten years - before returning it...
CM

[KCSO]

I made my own washers for an antique Coleman lantern and I had to make a form and wet the leather and then clamp it to make te cup shaped washer. When fitted the new washer works well, but by the time I made an aluminum form, made a washer and waxed and fitted it I had more in the drn thing than I paid for the lantern. As to your smelter, my grandfather had one and if I rmember right we filled a little reces on the burner with gas and lit it first for pre heat and then lit the vapor. I hated that thing as I always thought it was set to explode it may be in my dads garage yet, but it's been sitting for over 30 years and is probably a rusted mess. Considering the cost and availability of fuel I think I would go with a turkey cooker.

[Bucks Owin]

Rejuvenating old Coleman stuff is kind of a hobby to me. You can still generally get/make most parts you need, and stuff like new generators can sometimes be "adapted" to work even if for the "wrong" model of Coleman....

FWIW,

Dennis
who loves them old Colemans...

BTW, yes unleaded gas will work in place of Coleman fuel (white gas) but I stay away from it as it's dirtier, has wierd additives usually and sometimes contains condensation etc...(With the price of gas these days, why bother anyway!) :-(

[Ranch Dog]

Thanks guys... some more great ideas. You almost had me there Montana. Heck, in ten years there might not be any more fuel around to burn in the stove!!!

[montana_charlie]

I found this sitting in a local hardware store and bought it.
If you don't mind my asking...what did you have to give for it?
CM

[Ranch Dog]

100 bucks... the store owner was very fixed on the price and told me exactly what was wrong with it. I've paid a lot more than that for pictures on the wall so I figured it would make a good decoration if nothing else.

[Diamond-City-Bob]

You might try jackscountrystore.com for a washer. They are the best hardware store I've ever been in. Even if they dont have what you need a visit to their site will likely turn up something you didn't even know you needed. Hope this is of help.
Bob
Heck I've got to go over there today so I'll ask if they might have the part you need and get back to you.

[Diamond-City-Bob]

Sometimes you can restore a dried out leather washer by soaking it in sewing machine oil or 3 in 1 oil.

[Dale53]

Mineral oils will rot leather. Use neats foot oil. If you have access to a shoe repair shop they nearly always have a small bottle of neats foot oil. It PRESERVES leather.

FWIW
Dale53

[Junior1942]

Ranch Dog, you're flirting with disaster. That gasoline-powered thing was probably dangerous even when it was new. Make sure you have accident insurance. . . .

[montana_charlie]

Junior,
Back when that thing was new...EVERYTHING was dangerous...and everybody adjusted. Only today is considered 'illegal' to manufacture something that even a baby can't get hurt with...
CM

[oso]

I did what Montana Charlie suggested to make a leather washer for the pump on my Torrid Torch. Take apart an old bike tire pump to get a beter idea if it isn't clear. In addition to opening (to pressurize - very little pressure is needed, just enough to get fuel flowing, heat does the rest) and closing (to run) the pump, check the seals on the pump and the filler cap and replace them with O-rings if there are any leaks. Oughta work great - mine does!

[Bucks Owin]

Junior,
Back when that thing was new...EVERYTHING was dangerous...and everybody adjusted. Only today is considered 'illegal' to manufacture something that even a baby can't get hurt with...
CM

LOL, I hear ya amigo!

Sad to think that government thinks they can protect people from their own stupidity. How does one "legislate common sense"? I guess maybe the saying is true that "common sense" isn't very "common" anymore, the reason being that frivolus litigation is so easy and profitable in too many cases...

Dennis

BTW, I'd LOVE to own one of those smelters! Looks a helluva lot more convenient (and "safe") than the cast iron pot and single burner Coleman stove I use for now.....

[Junior1942]

Ranch Dog, if you're laid up in a burn unit for a year or so, what will we do for Ranch Dog group buys? Oh. . . almost forgot: wear a full face shield when you fire off that antique contraption. A burnt off nose ain't. . . . Well, you know what it ain't. . . .

[454PB]

I had a few "mishaps" with mine. Nothing worse than overfilling and having a small gas fire aound the pot. That's one of the reasons I recommend only filling it when it's cold, and use a Coleman fuel funnel to do it. Also, loosen the fill cap slowly, these will hold pressure in the tank, just like a Coleman stove or lantern.

I do all my smelting outdoors, away from buildings and combustibles. That thing will really roar once it gets going, and it's a bit scary the first time it's used.

[Bret4207]

I use one I picked up for $5.00. Same maker as yours. Still have all my fingers, toes and most of my hair. Start it outside, go inside no further than your garage or shed. These are pretty much an outside toy. A dutch oven full of WW becomes nice molten alloy in less then 10 minutes. VERY HOT! I use regular pump unleaded without problems. I keep a propane torch going near the base to preheat. Very handy and no more "unsafe" than any other gasoline appliance. When this was made the maker expected you to be smarter than the furnace. If you weren't... well, you probably shouldn't have been in the plumbing biz in the first place.

[RWL]

Post your inquiry about the plumbers furnace over in the Coleman group at Yahoo Groups. There are a number of very knowledgeable people there about pressure lanterns, and stoves. Although it's not a Coleman appliance there's likely to be someone there who can point you to the operating instructions.

With regard to fuel. It's better if you use Coleman fuel. Coleman lanterns will work on unleaded in a pinch, but the insides of the generators carbon up more quickly from the additives in motor fuel. Better to use Coleman fuel to preserve the generator on the stove since parts are not likely to be easily obtained.

RWL

[robertbank]

Used one for years and they work great for melting down Ww and stuff. Coleman gas works just great. Wife sold it on one of our moves, now I use a coleman stove for WW.

Don't worry about running out of Naptha, youngest son works up at Ft. McMurray, Alberta. They produce millions of gallons a day of the stuff.

Take Care

[Swagerman]

I had an old coleman stove the leather tank gasket on the pump rod rotted away, they get dry and brittle...you have to keep thick oil soaked on them so they will keep a good seal on the pump rod and not leak pressure.

Same thing problably applies to your situation.

Make one at least 1/8 inch thick leather and keep it oiled.


Jim

[njmj]

I have a couple of these things. Not as pretty as yours. They are tempermental but work great. Sound like a 747 in the back yard and I especially love it when they start to pulse. I don't use them anymore just because they are so noisy. You have received a lot of great info from these guys. About the only thing I can add is that when you make your leather washer out of a smooth work glove, let it have a little end play where the washers hold it to the pump stem. Sometimes if the leather is too tight around the sides it has a tough time drawing in air on the up stroke. Also, most of these burners have a stainless steel rope inside the coils I suppose to prevent the tubing from collapsing when te coil is wound. This rope decomposes over time from the heat and the carbon sometimes clogs up the tube or gets in the small orifice that usually screws into the bottom of the coil. NJMJ

[njmj]

I have a couple of these things. Not as pretty as yours. They are tempermental but work great. Sound like a 747 in the back yard and I especially love it when they start to pulse. I don't use them anymore just because they are so noisy. You have received a lot of great info from these guys. About the only thing I can add is that when you make your leather washer out of a smooth work glove, let it have a little end play where the washers hold it to the pump stem. Sometimes if the leather is too tight around the sides it has a tough time drawing in air on the up stroke. Also, most of these burners have a stainless steel rope inside the coils I suppose to prevent the tubing from collapsing when te coil is wound. This rope decomposes over time from the heat and the carbon sometimes clogs up the tube or gets in the small orifice that usually screws into the bottom of the coil. NJMJ

[axxman928]

Have to agree 100% with NJMJ. Pots are a little scarey because of the noise level. If
you have used Coleman stoves or lanterns ,no difference. Just the noise. Definitely
use outside only. I've got 3 of these units (2 active, one for parts.). Wouldn't
trade them for anything. If anybody has a source for parts (pump leathers ect.)
please e-mail me with info. Thanks. axxman928

[Singletree]

Ranch Dog,
I've had the same experience as others with the burner, leather old and wore out. Burner catches fire when fuel comes out the top of the pump and scares the daylights out of me. Once around the horn was enough for me, I removed the plunger and all other parts of the pump. Threaded the hole in the brass fuel cap to fit a valve stem, the all metal ones used for tires. Just a little shot of air from the compresser, fill the little tray with white gas to heat the burner mechanism, open the gas valve when hot, and melt lead. No leaks, no fires.

[kywoodwrkr]

I recently(in last year) bought two of them on e-Bay.
Also have regular blow torches by same maker. One sitting in back of me here at office.
There are websites dealing with blow torches so if you get one and need help-google blow torch websites etc and you should ultimately find some forums.
My uncle was a plumber and he used both the furnace and the blowtorch.
Taught me the art of soldering guttering even.
Sure do miss those days! :-)
FWIW
DaveP

[Ranch Dog]

I haven't had any time to mess with it as there is always something to do here on the ranch. I've got the smelter on my bench and will make it my winter time project. Thanks for all the info.

[HiWayMan]

You may wish to try Lehman's Hardware in Kidron, Ohio for a washer. The cater to the Amish community around here and have things like this. They have a website: www.Lehmans.com .