Sugestions 4 beginners

[XWrench3]

how about creating a sticky post with the above name, and coming up with some real words of wisdom for the new guys just starting out? stuff that if they do right, first, will make the whole process easier, more emjoyable, and safer?!

1) READ THE STICKY POST ON LEAD SAFETY!
2)if you have a brand new casting pot, spray it with mold release prior to turning it on for the first time, to make cleaning the pot easier in the future
3)BE EXTREEMELY CAREFUL WHITH WATER AROUND CASTING / SMELTING! if water gets into the lead, hot lead can spray everywhere!
4)





i just posted a few, what do you think guys, if this is a good idea, post away. if not, then just remove the post and i'll forget it.

[Dale53]

I suggest that any beginners would be best served by purchasing a copy of Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook and reading it a couple of times. Then keep it handy. It really takes a book, it really does.

Then, when a newbie comes on board, he will know which questions to ask for clarification.

FWIW
Dale53

[Shiloh]

+1 to Dale 53.

Your start loads should be at or very close to the published data.

Shiloh

[mdi]

Another+1 for Dale 53. Seems like new casters (and reloaders!) don't want to get the literature needed to get started in their new hobby. Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and Lyman 49th Edition Reloading Handbook should be on every caster's and reloader's bench. (Not to start a "this book is better" or "I only have _____ manual and it's good enough for me" arguement) The web is great for info, but many, many times you need something at hand to refer to. My suggestion would be:

1. Get the books.
2. Get more books.
3. Go slow.
4. Enjoy

[Gunslinger]

I think all newbees should:

1. Read at least 100 threads, AND have smelted and cast at least once before posting.
2. Accumulate as much lead as possible before getting really addicted.
3. Stop asking what size they need for their non-slugged gun and start sluggin' at once.

[462]

1. Read the archives.
2. Read current posts and stickies.
3. Read Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook.
4. Slug the barrel and cylinder throats.
5. Buy the necessary equipment, cast and load an initial batch, and scrutinize the results.
6. Don't be afraid to ask questions, but only after doing all the above.
7. Don't ask questions such as "What bullet works best in .?? caliber?" What powder works best in .?? caliber?" What is the best load for .?? caliber?" To me, those questions are a sign of laziness and unwillingness to learn. Besides, what works in one gun may not work in another.

Don't want to come across as sounding harsh, but if one is self-sufficient enough to cast and reload -- or want to start to -- then one should be self-sufficient enough to read and learn how to go about it, and conduct one's own beginning experiments. After one has put forth an honest effort to learn, then any questions or concerns will be gladly answered.

[Pmc]

Wow. Thanks for the insights. I'll be sure and not ask anymore questions.

Pmc

[outdoorfan]

Shows the wealth of info on this website alone, as I only started casting about six months ago, and I have never read the Lyman book or any other literature other than Veral's book. Just about everything I have learned has come from this forum. But it took the better part of 4-6 months to feel like I was up to speed with everything I wanted to do. Granted, I wanted more than just to make my guns go bang. It doesn't take that long to figure out how to do that.

[GRid.1569]

As a new start I like the idea of a "beginners start here" sticky...

Consolidate all the really good basic info (especially the don't do's) in one place and then dip your toe in the posts that seem to relate to your area...

I'm really grateful for the help I've had even before moving on from lurking through to my first questions this weekend....

[Dale53]

Pmc;
Not to be argumentative, we ARE trying to be helpful. We didn't say don't ask questions, it is just that if you do a little homework, YOU will be the MUCH better for it. We welcome questions - it's just more helpful to ALL of us (especially yourself {speaking collectively here}) to do a little background work.

Dale53

[sundog]

Pmc, haqving a good reference book, and referring to it, IS an incite. Heck there might even be something in it that you can tell us. Even the new guy can teach an old hand something once in a while. A GOOD internet forum, like this one, is not a Q&A, it's a discussion. Actually, it's LOTS of discussions...

[AZ-Stew]

Buy at least three handloading manuals and read them. No, not the data tables (they're for reference when handloading), I mean, read the "how to" stuff regarding the mechanics of handloading, powders, primers, cases and bullets. This is the basis from which you should build your handloading knowledge. If you don't start here, you'll be forever asking questions about the basics. While this important information, it's better learned elsewhere.

Regards,

Stew

[montana_charlie]

Wow. Thanks for the insights. I'll be sure and not ask anymore questions.
I had a snappy comeback all written up for you...but I decided to simply say, "You have a deal."

CM

[mooman76]

I think what we are trying to say is it gets aggravating when people ask the same questions day after day sometime more than once in the same day when the answers are already there in the stickies. That's what they're there for. We also understand at the same time this site can be a little overwhelming to the new guy. We just ask that you read a little before you jump in with the questions. If you can't live with that then you don't have to ask questions if you don't want to.

[waksupi]

It would be nice if all the do-don't do stuff could be put in one thread, but that would be nearly impossible. Cast boolit reloading is advanced reloading, and if you aren't up to speed on handloading when you get here, trying to get all the answers the easy way, isn't going to work out for you. The Classics and Stickies section should be read completely, if you want the most common subjects answered.

[Linstrum]

I think one of the reasons why a lot of relatively new arrivals here don't bother to use the search function to look up an answer to something is because a lot of websites have a so-called "search" feature that plain doesn't work. At those other places trying to use "search" is just a waste of time. The old "once burnt, twice shy" type of thing, so when they get here they ignore it because all the other places they have been to before it didn't work. I know I've had my fill of features at other websites that just plain don't work, or suffer from "link rot", dead-ends, lead to spam sites instead of legitimate help, etc. At least this is one place where that isn't true at all! (thanks, Willy!)

Another thing that is problematic that crops up here occasionally as far as thread and post titles go is that the information somebody needs is listed in a thread with a title like "I NEED HELP!!!!" or "What the ?????" that does not state right up front what it is about. In fact, I don't read posts that have ambiguous titles like those. Has anybody made the suggestion for our members to state the topic in the title instead of just writing "help" and then a bunch of !!!! and ???? without also stating what is on his/her mind? I'm not complaining about using a lot of !!!! and ???? since I do it, too, and I know how exasperating things can get at times, so folks need to blow off a little steam in an acceptable manner or be sure that their problem gets seen and addressed. Someone can use all the !!!! and ???? they want as long as they also include what it is that they need. At least the search function finds actual words, I really like that part since I can look up something pretty arcane like "rifle vacuum" and it gives me EVERYTHING ever written here with those words in it!


rl624

[montana_charlie]

At least the search function finds actual words,
So THAT'S what it wants...!?!

I tried searching for "!!!!" and got "Sorry, no matches."
Tried "????" and got, "Sorry, no matches."

After reading your advice about 'words', I searched for "Zippo"...and got three pages of results!
Now, that lights my fire!

CM

[Linstrum]

Hey, CM, yeah! I tried "rifle vacuum" and got about the same number of pages!!!


rl625

[462]

I think that, over the course of the last 30 or 40-years, students have been so dumbed-down and not required to think for themselves, that it has lead to a couple generations who find it easier just to ask for help rather than attempt to find the answer themselves.

I'm more than willing to share my limited casting knowledge and experience. I only ask that the person asking for help has first tried to find the answer on their own. Asking for an answer without first looking for it is not a learning process, it's nothing less than sheer laziness.

Linstrum, I like your idea about not reading posts with inane titles.

[canyon-ghost]

1. Get the books.
2. Get more books.
3. Go slow.
4. Enjoy

There you have the best answer. No, I don't have one manual, I have 5 or 6! Ask all the questions you want, I try to look it up that fast...sigh. Lyman Cast Bullet Manual #3 is just the start. It does tell you all about lead and the water hazard, and that's a very old book. I can't put guys down for trying without buying but, there's a lot you are missing. Seems like it's taken me forever to get started.

[Whitespider]

Personally, I don’t mind it when newbie’s ask questions that have been asked many times before (heck, it wasn’t that long ago I was a newbie). The search function is great if you know exactly what you’re lookin’ for, but if you’re new, and confused, the search just brings up way too many un-related threads, further confusing the searcher.

But I do become exasperated when the question is non-specific or shows a lack of basic, general reloading knowledge. Questions like, “Can I use Large Rifle primers in my .44 Special?” C’mon, have you read a reloading manual? Do you even own one? And what does that have to do with bullet casting anyway?
Or, “My load isn’t accurate, what should I try next?” What load? What gun type? What bullet? What have you tried? And after some prodding we learn the newbie has cast some bullets from WW’s, picked some arbitrary load from some internet source, and they don’t shoot to his expectations. That’s it; he’s not even tried a different load. I’m all for helping those that try to help themselves, but.....

In my mind, bullet casting is a somewhat advanced reloading procedure requiring at least a moderate level of reloading experience; if you’re not already an accomplished reloader you need to wait on the casting thing. And when you do ask for help, do your homework and be specific and detailed with your questions.

[blackthorn]

I started reading here away back in 1996 on the old Shooters board. The wealth of knowledge available is, to say the least, mind boggeling! One thing I have noticed is that we seem to reinvent the wheel on a fairly regular bases. This reinvention seems to occur whenever we get a group of new members. The great thing (to me) is that I have noticed that people from the latest two or three groups are often the ones who try to provide (share) thier learning experiences with the "new crop". In addition to that, we are blessed to have amongst us people who have been sharing thier wisdom from the very beginning of the evolution to what is now "Cast Boolits" and those people will jump in with solutions to truly complex questions. We (colectively) have always said "there are no dumb questions" and I suspect someone new to this site may find the accumulation of stored material daunting (to say the least).Those few who are really just too lazy to do the required reading will not likely be with us for long and they will have lost out on one of the more rewarding aspects of this hobby and they will never truly know if thier firearm is performing at its true potential because they have settled for less than they could have had. Sorry for the long post. Have a great day.

[Dollar Bill]

I have this speel I give new aircraft mechanics.They can ask the old guy how to do something, but then ask where to find the info. When it comes to the basic mechanics of loading and casting, maybe it would be wise to answer the person's question then give them a reference to find more in-depth knowledge. Reminds me of the post where they guy had a well-functioning load for his Glock, then wanted to seat the bullet deeper to crimp in a cannular! Had no idea of the consequences because the basic knowledge wasn't there.

[Linstrum]

Hi, blackthorn & Dollar Bill, yup, I think you guys stated things quite well.

Another thing we need to keep in mind about people seeming to be too lazy to read up on what they need, about one out of every 15 or 16 people can't read, or just barely can. Obviously if they can't read at all they would never show up here, but for those whose reading skills are pretty marginal, it is a royal pain in the butt for them to read up on something and for them they are better off asking since they would never be able to get what they need on their own. Most people with dyslexia are too proud or ashamed to let others know they have a problem with reading so they will NOT tell us. With that fact in mind, I think we need to keep a more mellow attitude about people asking question that seem to us "old hands" to be redundant and irritating. Being dyslexic does not mean they can't be just as good as anybody else when it comes to casting and reloading, and I wouldn't dream of doing something that might prevent someone from learning something because they are disabled. Dyselxia is every bit as much of a legitimate disability as being deaf or having a hand missing. I know, my brother-in-law is dyselxic and he has a hard time reading a license plate let alone anything here, but he is an avid shooter and doesn't mind passing on to others what he knows even though it was a royal pain in the **** for him to spend all day reading up and studying something that would take me five or ten minutes at the most. He is NOT stupid, inconsiderate, or lazy. I am not disagreeing with blackthorn's commnets at all, his observations are quite valid. At first glance it is quite difficult to tell the difference between someone who is only making a half-hearted effort to help himself and someone who is actually unable to help himself due to the inability to make sense of the written word.

rl628

[Bret4207]

I have 2 kids and a SIL with reading issues. It's just hard for them, one due to eyesight and the other two for other problems related to comprehension. I've found they do very well with videos of things or showing them how the operation is conducted. Then, once they have a grasp of what it is we're trying to do, the written instructions make more sense. There are a number of very good vids on You Tube for reloading and casting. The books make a lot more sense when you have an idea of what they are talking about.


Suggestions for noobs?

1- BOOLIT FIT TRUMPS EVERYTHING ELSE!!! Fit is king with cast, that's all there is to it. The hardest lead alloy in the world will still give lousy results if the boolit is not the right size for the gun. Usually that means FAT enough to work right. A .30 caliber rifle with .308 grooves probably needs at least a .309 if not a .310 or .311 boolit to do it's best work. Different designs and and alloys sometimes mean you need a different size to work best.

2- Size to you guns throat. Use the fattest boolit that will fit in your throat and still chamber. USUALLY that is the place to start. In some cases a slightly smaller boolit will show better results as speeds increase.

3- Don't depend on obturation to make a boolit "bump up". Yes, it can work. But, it's an iffy thing and the lighter the boolit and load the iffyer it gets. Fit the boolit to the gun if at all possible. If your boolit still lacks a thou' or two of being right then read up on "bumping" in the sizer. At least then you can be consistent and you'll know each boolit is the "right" size.

4- Better a slightly fat boolit than a skinny one. The barrel is the ultimate sizer. Give it something to work with.

5- HARD CAST is advertising hype. An undersize "hard" boolit can lead as badly or worse than a soft one. WW alloy of 8-10 Bhn is plenty hard enough for much shooting and almost all hunting. Water quenching can strengthen the WW alloy for better grip of the rifling (for lack of a better term) while still remaining ductile. Bhn of 13-15 is easily obtainable. The super hard alloys of above 18 Bhn (roughly twice the Bhn of WW) are best reserved for specific uses. Some guns seem to thrive on very hard, heat treated alloys. Others, most it seems, are indifferent at normal max cast speeds of around 1800 fps in rifles. Pressure is the issue and a hard alloy MIGHT handle pressure better, but it might not too. Work with the standard alloys till you see what is going on with your particular gun/load combo. Don't waste time and money juicing your alloy only find out it was an undersize nose or faulty seating die that gave you problems. Cast, shoot, OBSERVE and write it all down!!!

6- Each variable in the process adds up. If you have a load that isn't performing right DO NOT change the powder and seating depth and sizer die. Do one thing at a time or you'll never know what the problem was. Only by figuring out just what the problem is each time can you come to general conclusions and rules or truths about this hobby. Changing the seating depth .005 can take a so-so load to a great load, or ruin it. Little things add up.

7- For goodness sake, before you start shooting cast CLEAN YOUR GUN of ALL fouling. Jacket fouling, powder fouling, old dried oils can all play havoc with cast. Give yourself and your poor neckkid boolit a chance and clean the barrel.

8- Read the "Classics and Stickies". I will throw myself on the sword and admit it drives me nuts to see the same question 3x a week- "Can I shoot a GC boolit w/o the GC?", "Can a Marlin Micro Groove handle cast?", "Does Lee's Mule Snot (LLA) really work?". The info is there guys, read.

9- Learn to cast before you give up. All you need is a heat source, lead alloy a ladle and pot and a mould. Learn to make GOOD boolits. You, the caster, are the key to getting a mould to work. Clean it, get it surgically clean. Read the "Leementing" posts. Flux your melt, get it clean and hot. Get your mould HOT and start casting. Don't worry about speed, don't worry about "shine", just worry about complete fill out and square bases. If you got the mould clean then wrinkles will go away as the mould heats. Incomplete fillout will go away as the mould heats except in rare cases where the vents are clogged. Watch for lead smearing on the sprue plate bottom and the top of the mould. At the first sign clean it and rub the pot with a pencil or use Bullplate lube. Then cast and cast and cast till you see perfect boolits. If they don't fill out right try using a sprue plate to ladle or spout contact pour. If that doesn't help then let the lead drop in from more height. If that doesn't work then aim for the edge of the sprue hole to add turbulence. Try different things, read the various methods people use to get good fillout and try them. A HOT POT doesn't equal a HOT MOULD. You need the mould hot to get good fillout, so stop playing with things and checking the boolits and keep getting hot lead into the mould so it can warm enough to cast right. Every second that mould is empty it's cooling down.

10- Have fun. If it becomes a chore you dread then casting isn't for you. Start with a heat source, pot, ladle and mould. Use the Lee sizers and Mule Snot and go for the low and slow loads. Don't sink $800 into RCBS pots and sizers and all the other gear just find out you hate casting. It's not for everyone.

[mdi]

WOW! I gotta agree with 462. I use manuals almost daily in my work (Heavy Equipment Electrician/Mechanic) and have learned from the start to have the info I need in writing, right in front of me, and/or on hand for quick refrence. I too have noticed that a lot of the younger guys coming into the shop would rather someone tell them the fix than look it up (even though most repair manuals are now on CD and not in book form, and terminals readily available).

[putteral]

Great post Bret4207. Could not agree with you more.
:drinks:

[sundog]

Bret, good job on the cast boolit part of it. I guess you buy into the the fit the boolit thing, eh? ;)

Couple comments to go along with everyone else.

You need a have a half way decent gun, with a half way decent barrel. Bores that vary in land and groove width and depth, bad crowns, improperly cut chambers and bad throats will play havoc with accuracy. Things like loose sights, bad triggers, lack of proper bedding, etc., will play havoc with accuracy. In a nutshell, the equipment must be up to the job.

Bad shooting habits will play havoc with accuracy. Lack of skill and practice will play havoc with accuracy. Good shooting is a perishable skill. In a nutshell, the shooter must be up to the job.