Recipe for Mike Venturino's bore cleaner: Windex + ?

[Maven]

All, Two questions: First what are the exact proportions of Mike V's. BP bore cleaner. I know it's Windex, but is it Windex WITH vinegar or does Mike add white vinegar and isopropyl alcohol to the [plain] Windex. Second, can this mixture also be used in ML rifles (with BP naturally!)? Thanks in advance for your help!

[Don McDowell]

His windex bore cleaner is off the shelf comes inthe bottle Windex with vinegar. Problem is finding the stuff not all stores carry it.Probably wouldn't recommend the plain windex with ammoniad.
You can also mix half simple green and half water, that combo makes a really good bp cleaner, both for use on patches cleaning the bore and to soak fired cases in to loosen the crud.

[Circuit Rider]

Maven, I used to hate cleanup after shooting my 45/70 Pedersoli Sharps. No longer, in Mike's book, Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West, he explains. 1- 22 ounce bottle of Windex that says "With Vinegar" in a gallon jug and fill with water. Usually a couple of soaked patches does the job. I've used it for the last 3 years and cleanup is a breeze. Just make sure it says With Vinegar on the label. Circuit Rider:castmine:

[13Echo]

Windex with Vinegar, which in fact does not contain vinegar, works great out of the bottle. There are other window cleaners on the market that do contain vinegar that also work a treat. Do not use a cleaner with ammonia, especially if you are shooting Pyrodex or other BP subs. It seems it is a recipe for instant corrosion.

Jerry Liles

[montana_charlie]

I use water straight from the tap.
A wet patch followed by a dry one...then do it again.
Four patches is usually enough.

Afterward, I always run a Kroil patch both ways, and let that soak for fifteen minutes (while depriming cases). Then, a very tight patch...just to examine for leading.

If nothing further is required, an oiled patch for rust prevention...and done.

I use Dawn, Kroil, citrus, and other products for a variety of chores...but straight water has always been enough for the barrel.

CM

[PatMarlin]

Water- then Ballistol for me. I love Ballistol.

Now I'm using it for way lube, turn- drill- tap machining oil full strength, and water mix flood coolant in my coolant system on my Hardinge.

The Mobil oils and Rustlick soluble was starting to make me sic, burn my sinuses, and making my skin break out. Ballistol has ended all that and it's working as well and better than the toxic oil in the shop.

[Maven]

All, I usually use "Friendship Speed Juice" (equal amounts of isopropyl alcohol, hydrogen peroxide and Murphy's Oil Soap) in my muzzle loaders and my Marlin #336 when I use BP loads. (I don't leave it in any bbl. for more than a few minutes though.); Winchester Sutler's "Moose Milk"; or that white, opaque liquid that T/C sells (got several bottles on closeout) and was looking for something at least as effective as these, but couldn't recall or find via Google the exact recipe that Mike V. uses. Have any of you tried antifreeze diluted 50:50 with water as either a preservative or bbl. cleaner?

[hiram]

Do NOT mix your own water - vinegar solution. I made a solution with too much vinegar and removed blue from tjhe muzzle.

[Lead pot]

hydrogen peroxide is a sure bet for a rust bucket.

[Dale53]

hydrogen peroxide is a sure bet for a rust bucket.

I know several hundred black powder shooters a the Friendship Indiana Nationals that will dispute that with you. I have used it for YEARS with nothing but success.

After you clean with Friendship Speed Juice, run a couple of dry patches through. Then I use Ed's Red as a preservative.

Friendship Speed Juice has NO preservative in it. I can only speculate that those that have had problems with it didn't realize that and didn't use a preservative afterwards.

I had the Black Powder Wizard, Bill Knight, Consultant to the Black Powder Industry and an Organic Chemist run a test with it and it came out with a "thumbs up". It has a real advantage over water - water will flush out black powder fouling but will NOT dissolve the "clinkers". The Hydrogen Peroxide flat out dissolves the clinkers.

I had occasion to remove the breechplug in my caplock muzzle loader that had been used with Speed Juice for many years of competition. The firechannel through the patent breech still had it's original bluing intact and NO evidence of rust or pitting in any way. It was just CLEAN.

That is the best test I can think of and was done here in the humid Midwest.

Dale53

[Kenny Wasserburger]

Water works great, but by it's self wont do the whole job.

After cleaning real well with water, Try a patch soaked with Butch's BP Bore shine the carbon left behind that water will not touch comes out in light grayblack. Butch's has MP-7 in it the same stuff uncle same uses to clean the carbon out of barrels of Chain guns on the varrious weapons systems our military uses.

MLV's solvent of Windex with Vinager is good stuff also.

I Also use Kroil oil for checking for Lead or Shiloh Creek sold by Shiloh Rifle that will pull lead!

The friendship speed juice Dale and others mention works very well also, but as Dale said you have to oil afterwords the Oxidizing of the Hydo P will ruin a barrel.
KW
The Lunger

[keeper89]

Just to weigh in here, a few years ago I bought a roller in 38-55 from a fellow in Saratoga who specializes in bp cartridge rifles and has done so for many years. He told me that he has used regular automotive windshield washer soaked patches for decades with no ill effects. I have been using them ever since, one or two down the tube, a dry patch, then a patch with clear machine oil--it's working great for me, I figured this gentleman has forgotten more about bp cartridge than I will ever have time to learn.....just my .02, hope it helps......:cbpour:

[Bent Ramrod]

Mike wrote that a 22-oz bottle of Windex with vinegar put into a plastic gallon jug and filled the rest of the way with water was his standard cleaning solution.

[Lead pot]

I been using NAPA water soluble cutting oil for cleaning. a mix of 1 part oil 6 parts distilled water.

[Boz330]

I've been using Mike's formula for several years for cartridge and ML and have been very happy with it. Still haven't used up the first jug yet. The only thing that worked as well was KMS which used to be sold by an old guy at Friendship, but I haven't seen him in years so I think he probably passed on.
For my cartridge gun usually 2 wets and 2 or 3 dry and the job is done. When I get it home I use some Kroil and let it soak and then a tight patch to check for lead. In my MLs I plug the nipple and pour some in and let it sit a couple minutes and then sump it several times with a loose patch to clean the rest of the bore. Dry patch it and then oil it. I do come back for several days and just swap the bore just to make sure.

Bob

[Gellot Wilde]

What Montana Charlie said.

Water seems to be as good as anything, not found anything better so far and believe me I've tried.

:coffee:

[cajun shooter]

As has been posted there are many ways to obtain the same results. When I first received my Pedersoli 34in bbl Competition rifle I went to clean the bore before shooting as you should do on a new rifle. I used the standard moosemilk at 7-1, windex and vinegar, Kroil. The bbl apperaed to be clean. A fellow member of the forum,John Boy bought the same rifle and said that he had found some hard dried substance in his and that I better look again. I used some M-Pro7 that is very strong and out comes these black patches from my clean bbl. I won't go into details but Pedersoli used some product from Shell that was meant for short term use only and the rifle had been in storage for 4 years. It took the M-Pro7 and mek to remove it. If you want to see if you have anything in your BBl ,try the cleaner it works.

[Mike Venturino]

Maven: I just dump a jug of "Windex With Vinegar" into a gallon milk jug and then fill the remaining space with water. Such a jug should last for a couple of years even with a very avid shooter/competitor. (Like me.)

As for muzzle loaders, yes that solution works fine too. I cover the nipple with a patch and put the hammer down on it. Then I fill the barrel with the solution and let it set for a couple of minutes. Then I upend the rifle and let the fouled solution run out on the ground. After that a couple of patches should clean up everything else.

That certain variety of Windex is hard to find, so when I do come across it I tend to stock up. I've probably got a lifetime's worth stored away now considering I'm 60.

Good luck to you. I've been absent here for several months. Work projects and the silhouette shooting season have kept me busy.
Mike V.

[Maven]

Thanks Mike, that's exactly the recipe I was looking for and thanks for taking the time to write!

Paul

[Mike Venturino]

Maven: You're very welcome. Glad to be of help.

MLV

[malpaismike]

Hello the camp! The last Windex w/ vinegar I found was at Home Depot. That said, my current favorite is Glass Plus, that has the vinegar formula with an added bonus of being less expensive. It is less than $2 at wallyworld; speaking of ww, they used to carry a refill size that was the same price as std Windex.

I finally know the name for the peroxide/alcohol/murphy mix--FSJ. I learned of it shortly after I got my .45 RVs; made the mistake of cleaning both side-by-side--squirted on the FSJ, cleaned other stuff, saw previously-shiny hammers with little yellow dots, rubbed off same to find dark discoloration. Yep, elemental sulfur, reduced from the evap'd solution, oxidized the hammers. While I could have buffed them back to pristine, I left them as a dumb-schmidt lesson. My .02 mm

[Ernest]

Hi Mike Venturino,
Thanks for stopping by. A question. Have you ever done any work / articles on the Martini Henry 577/450? If so where could I find it?

[Mike Venturino]

Ernest: I'm not going to be much help. I did bring back a MH .577-450 from a trip to New Zealand in 2000 but shot it very little. That was mainly because every time I pulled its trigger it kicked me so hard I had to dig out my hankerchief and wipe my nose! I sold it on gunbroker and last I heard it was on its way to Norway.

Mike

[Ernest]

Yikes!!!!! Thanks for the reply. I have heard they are known for kicking to beat the devil. I'll start out low and work up to where I can't stand it any more.

Ernest

[Boz330]

Yikes!!!!! Thanks for the reply. I have heard they are known for kicking to beat the devil. I'll start out low and work up to where I can't stand it any more.

Ernest

There are ways to make the loads tolerable. Kapok filler for one and or an active filler which is a 50-50 mix of COW and 3F. The mix has given me the best accuracy. I have also used Canon grade BP and the accuracy was great for about 4 shots. After that the fowling was so bad that accuracy went to hell in a hand basket and it was a bear to clean as well.
I also have one of the Martini Henry Carbines and it will sure loosen your teeth.

Bob

[Gellot Wilde]

I shoot a Martini Henry 577-450 quite often...sorry to hear about Mike getting kicked hard...mine is real easy to shoot...and that's with 80gn of Swiss No.5 and a 480gn Brooks bullet.

[Maven]

Just an update on Mike V's cleaning solution: I made some for use in my muzzle loading rifles and was amazed at how quickly it cleaned the bore. I poured ~1 oz. down the bbl. to let the breech area soak, let it stand for maybe 5 mins., poured it out, swabbed the bore with 3 patches soaked in fresh solution, then dried it. I then pushed a greased patch down bore, followed up with WD-40 (Hoppe's #9 also works well.) on a fresh patch when I returned from the range. Thanks Mike, this is good stuff!

[Mike Venturino]

Glad to be of help.
MLV

[dromia]

The trick with the MH if you find the full stoke rounds too much is to take up some case capacity.

I make nitrated blotting paper rolled up and dropped inside the case, it combusts upon firing.

Lighter boolits also help, the 577/450 is an accurate round.

[725]

dromia,
How do you make nitrated paper?

[dromia]

Simply, you add saltpeter to water 'till it won't dissolve any more.

Soak your blotting paper in it, let it dry, becareful when handling wet.

Cut to an appropriate size for your case so that it fills the space from base to shoulder, curl, roll and drop into case and ease in place with a dowel.

Load from there.

I get my saltpeter from hobby sausage making suppliers

[dromia]

From windex for BP cleaning to nitrated paper, don't you just love the shooting arts.:grin:

:lovebooli

[McLintock]

I use Ballistol with water for my cartridge guns, but Windex with vinegar is the cat's meow for getting plastic crud out of my hammer double after shooting loads with plastic wads and black powder. I use it straight out of the bottle for that application.
McLintock

[Springfield]

I just use water with some Murphy's oil. I'm kind of a sloppy gun cleaner and can't be sure I get every little crevice with the oil afterwards but the water/Murphys' isn't corrosive. Been using it for 5 years and still don't have any rust on my BP guns. And I find after 3 or 4 cleanings the plastic snot comes right out of the doubles. Call it "seasoning" or not, it just cleans better after a while. Last I heard vinegar removes blueing. If Windex doesn't contain vinegar, then what it it?

[13Echo]

Windex with vinegar for whatever reason contains no vinegar. In fact it is mildly basic rather than acidic. I looked up its MSDS about a year ago to see what it contained and was surprised. It still works well. I am using another brand of window cleaner that does contain vinegar and it also works well. Since black powder fouling is mildly basic I think the mildly acidic vinegar solution acts to neutralize the fouling. At any rate it hasn't hurt the bluing and it cleans a treat.

Jerry Liles

[malpaismike]

Hello the camp! For info, I bought vinegar-mentioned (I won't go farther than that) at a Dollar General store in Prescott or Payson when I forgot mine at the ranch. It did ok; like Mike, I stock up, but on Glass Plus, but this sub worked just fine.
For the wantin-ta-clean-but-ready-for-brewsky-inclined amongst us, I once gave my ROAs and Win92 a whoresbath with--watta ya callem--HandiWipes? Babie's bottoms and such? Cut to little over 2" patch, worked like a champ, at least good enuf to shoot next day--no worries, natch--and get to the cooler.
For the record, there is nothing better than hot soapy water for cleaning and, in general, ease of cleaning. The caveat is HOT water; otherwise you run the chance of rusting. Glass Plus and Ballistol are the bee's knees for tailgate and camper cleaning, imho.
I haven't seen it mentioned yet, so here's Malpais Mike handy tip #1/2: Costco sells canned air for computos or somesuch; works in good stead for shop's compressor to blow out cleaned ROA cylinder, frame and soforth. See ya round the campfire. mm

[jgraham1]

Go with Windex with vinegar. Have it here in Juneau at the Wal-Mart store. Works great!

Jerry

[JIMinPHX]

I've been using hot water & dish soap on all my black powder stuff ever since I started fooling around with that sort of thing. After the clean up, I swab the bore down with bore butter. That seems to have worked well.

What is the advantage of the Windex? Is it better because you don't need the hot water or something?

[Boz330]

Jim,
It is just quick. I use it in my cartridge gun as well as my ML guns. Usually 2 wet patches and 2 dry and the cartridge gun is done and then just oil. The only time I do more is if there is some lead to get out.
In the ML guns I just plug the nipple and pour some in and let sit and then just agitate it with the cleaning rod and then a patch on a jag. A couple drying patches and some WD40 to make sure the moisture is gone. I use a pipe cleaner to clean the flash channel and nipple and then oil. I do try to go back after several days and run a patch down the bore though and oil it again.
There is nothing wrong with your method, I used it for a long time, but especially in deer camp this works well for me.

Bob

[Boz330]

Mike,
Out of curiosity how did you come up with the Windex Vinegar mix?

Bob

[Willbird]

http://www.whatsinsidescjohnson.com/en-us/products-by-brand/windex/windex-multi-surface-vinegar.aspx#

Is that the cleaner you guys are using ?? If so it contains acetic acid which is vinegar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar

I did find a bottle of it at Pamida store.

[13Echo]

Interesting. When I checked the MSDS a couple of years ago it did not contain acetic acid, and was, in fact, mildly basic instead of acidic. Glad to see the acetic acid back in as BP fouling is mildly basic.

Jerry Liles

[Willbird]

I just wanted to make sure I had the right stuff :-).

I got a gallon of distilled water to mix it with.

Bill

[quasi]

Ballistol is handy stuff. I have been told that it has been for sale in America since the 50's at least, but it is called Cleanzoil?