.38 hbwc

[BLTsandwedge]

Great conversation about .38 HBWCs on a few threads here. I've got a bizarre experience to relate.

Back in June I ran across an out-of-the-way gun shop on a long weekend in the Cambria area. There I bought an unmarked box of 500 swaged .38 HBWCs for $15. Feeling great about this, I took them home, inserted head-in-rectum and loaded a few boxes using the same charge as I would for a .38 BBWC ala H&G's design. The charge I used was 3.1g Clays.

At the range the following Saturday I ran through one box and was delighted with the accuracy- but I found some lead at the forcing cone of my S&W 14. The generic HBWCs are lubricated with graphite- I simply resolved to carrying a brass brush next time. I took the second box- absolutely identical to the first- and began shooting. First shot, two holes about 6" apart. Second shot, two more holes. ***!! Somebody was shooting my target- or so I thought. The only other guy shooting was doing benchrest with a .22-250 so I left him alone. Third shot, two more holes. The HBWCs were breaking apart. Not only that, I noticed a visible time delay between the round and the skirt as they struck the target.

From my blackpowder days I've seen a .577 hollow-base skirt flare out when fired with too much powder (pics in Lyman's BP manual). I concluded this was happening with the .38 HBWCs- but for that HBWC to break into two pieces......that's wild. The HBWCs are made of pure lead; in my mind they'd be as malleable as a pure lead .577.

Obviously I laoded the rest with more conservative charges- as in 2.5g Clays- that eliminated the problem. Anyone ever have this happen? Why would the HBWC blow apart?

[HeavyMetal]

To much stress in that middle section of the HBWC and "poof" they were seperate projectiles.

I firmly believe that this problem is what caused the whole "secondary explosion" BS of the mid to late 70's! Your veery lucky that a skirt or two weren't left in the barrel!

For a published example of this problem I will suggest Ken Waters article on reloading the 38 S&W cartridge in his pet loads series.

He actually printed picture of a 38 S&W Ruger revolver with a HBWC skirt lodged in the bore of the barrel after it had seperated from the rest of the boolit.

[Char-Gar]

With the factory swage HBWC bullet it doesn't take much of a boost in charge to blow the skirts off of the bullet. It is all to common an experience.

Cast HBWC can take more pressure and still hang in there. But the general rule is if you want to go above the mild 650 to 700 fps target velocity best use solid base bullets. I know these are conservative, but better safe than sorry.

The real danger is leaving the skirt in the barrel where it becomes an obstruction.

Some years ago, Terry Murback wrote a fine article on shooting 38 wad cutters at mid-range velocities. Best article produced on the subject. I have it on jpeg. If anybody wants a copy give me an email addy and I will send it to you.

[DanWalker]

Had the exact same thing happen to me with a 357 mag contender bbl I was wringing out this past summer.

I'd love a copy of that article
crowshooter223@hotmail.com
Thanks,
Dan

[Dale53]

The blown up guns during the 70's was simply a new bunch of people introduced to Progressive presses without any training. Simple combination of double charges and deep seating (caused by operator failure to keep the bullet seating die clean). The same thing happened with the sudden influx of new progressive reloaders (the people) with Cowboy Action shooting. This time, it wasn't the .38 Special but .45 Colt (the cause, however, was the same, double charges).

Now, to the separating skirts of hollow base wadcutters. This DOES happen as the O.P. stated. However, mostly what happens is the skirt separates and stays in the barrel. The next shot bulges the barrel.

I was next to a shooter who was shooting these in a .38 Super (1911 platform). He fired a shot, and just before he shot again, I spotted something sticking out of his barrel. I yelled and he listened. Examination of the gun showed the skirt had separated and was just barely sticking out of the barrel. The next shot would have ruined the barrel (another club member had destroyed TWO barrels in a few weeks with EXACTLY the same set up). Same bullets, same type .38 Super, with the same load. It was excessive for the bullet but needed to get reliable operation. They both changed bullet styles after the mystery was solved.

I used to be the score keeper for our local Police Dept matches. These were regional matches that would draw a couple of hundred police officers (PPC Matches). The shooting was on the outdoor range and the scoring was done next to the range in the indoor range. You could easily hear the shooting (bang, bang, bang, BANG!!!). The "BANG!!! was a double charge. Quite common in the day of the Star reloader when operated by a less than astute operator. The K-frame Smith's would handle an occasional double charge but couple that with deep seating (from not cleaning the bullet lube regularly from the seating die) and you got a catastrophic failure (caused by pressures over 60,000 PSI). Deep seating by just 1/16" over a double charge doubled pressures... H.P. White Laboratories report.

Dale53

[Char-Gar]

Here is the AR article/chart on deep seated and double charged wadcuttrs loads made reference to above. Testing done by H.P. White

[Char-Gar]

Dan.. Article sent by email. Charles

[Bodydoc447]

Chargar,

I would like to have a copy of that article, too, please.
Bodydoc447@sbcglobal.net


Thanks,
Doc

[Ugluk]

Thank you!

[MNruss]

Chargar,
I'd like a copy also.

russe@bitstream.net

Thanks!

I shoot a lot of 38 WC & HBWC
Some in rifles - I'm paranoid & check the barrel
even if I hear the impact.
Regards
Russ