Remington Hornet Brass

[ihmsakiwi]

I have a problem with brand new Rmington Hornet brass.
I shoot a 10" T/C Hornet in IHMSA Field pistol using J bullets.
I recently bought a new Drulov Hornet pistol for the express purpose of shooting cast .22 boolits and bought a different brand of brass so I can easily keep them separate as the Drulov has a match chamber.
Are the primer pockets on Remington brass tighter or shallower than Winchester brass as I am having huge problems trying to get the usual Federal small rifle primers to install flush with the top? They all stand about 1mm proud.
Anyone shed any light on this? Thanks, Peter.

[JeffinNZ]

Peter, how about a primer pocket reamer to increase the depth of the pocket?
Also, aren't small pistol primers a shade 'shorter'? Maybe worth investigating.

[Houndog]

Peter,
I don't believe there's any difference in the primer pockets between those two brands as both are made to SAAMI specs, however, manufacturing tolerances sometimes make for some intresting variations. As Jeff said, a primer pocket uniformer from somewhere like Sinclair's will fix the problem in short order, and in ammo for competition gun, it's a standard procedure for me.
I suggest you try some pistol primers in your Hornet! Jim Carmichel, the Outdoor Life firearms writer, did some lengthy testing for an article on the Hornet and found pistol primers to be better in the Hornet than small rifle primers. Unlike SOME of the typewriter jockeys in the gun rags, Jim actually does the testing he writes about and is a VERY accomplished shooter! He belongs to the same gun club I do and you can catch him there two or three days a week.

[Bret4207]

A bit OT but Jim Carmichael did some truly great work with cast years back in Handloader. This was long before he got the gig at OL. The man knows his stuff.

[HORNET]

Small pistol primers and small rifle primers are nominally the same size. Diameter and height. Sometimes switching to SP helps and sometimes it doesn't. Depends on the load. You've got to try both to find out for YOUR application.

[Rocky Raab]

I do actual testing.

The Rem 6 1/2 is known as "The Hornet Primer" because it is very mild and does not prematurely unseat the bullet before powder ignition. That is my go-to primer for the Hornet and Bee. Note that we are NOT talking about the very hot Rem 7 1/2, which has no place in a Hornet round.

In the absence of the Rem 6 1/2, I have excellent luck with CCI 500 and Federal 100, both small pistol primers. All Winchester primers have been too hot in my testing. I have had so-so results with the CCI 400 small rifle, and feel that it is just a bit too hot.

The other secret to consistency with the Hornet's thin necks is to use the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Whatever you think about crimping and accuracy, it absolutely DOES help in the Hornet. You simply must keep that bullet from moving until the powder is fully ignited or else it's like using totally random bullet seating depths.

[leftiye]

Rocky, OR maybe thumb seat boolits in unsized or marginally sized necks - seated out to touch the rifling.

[Rocky Raab]

That, of course, does raise the specter of poor bullet alignment. Is it sixes? Beats me. But my Browning Micro-Medallion can put five into very near a half-inch consistently on a calm day - when I'm up to it.

Until recently, my best recipe has been a good 45-gr bullet, WW brass (FL sized), 13.0 LilGun, the R 6/12 and a squeeze with the Lee FCD. I get 2800 fps and those tight groups.

However, I recently reviewed the new Barnes 30-gr Varmint Grenade for Hornet (says so on the box) and it just MIGHT become my new "bestest." Sub-inch groups at 3200 and positively devastating results on critters. Whoa!

[GSM]

ihmsakiwi:

If I recall correctly, with the Rem brass the "corner" of the primer pockects was a bit different than the Win - uniformed both brands in the end, but seemed to cut more on the Rem.

In the past, the Rem brass has also been thinner.

Experience based on forming 270 REN from Hornet.

[ihmsakiwi]

Thanks guys for your replys.
I have already investigated the primer pocket reamer but before outlaying the $40 plus thought I would check to see if I was missing something obvious.
I have already also decided on small pistol primers for this pistol after reading reports on shrinking group sizes due to pistol primers so thank you for the heads up on the ones to try.
So it looks like I need a primer pocket reamer, a Lee Factory crimp, and a selection of small pistol primers..........there goes an easy $100. Still I could take up golf...NOT.
JeffinNZ did you see the 42 grain .22 mould that is in the Mold Discussion forum I think it was. I will send the link in separate e-mail. I still have not shot the cast boolits you sent me as I want to use them in the new Hornet pistol as soon as I have sorted the primer issues. i will report back.

[ihmsakiwi]

Peter, how about a primer pocket reamer to increase the depth of the pocket?
Also, aren't small pistol primers a shade 'shorter'? Maybe worth investigating.

Hello Jeff,

Check out the .22 molds in the link below under the "Cast Boolits" section.
Vey tidy looking little number. I quite fancy a four holer but will wait to see what my 10" 1 in 16 twist likes.

Regards,
Peter.

Who casts for a 22 Hornet or any 22?

[Euan]

Yes mate, With Remington hornet brass I have an average of 10 or 15 cases per 100 that I can't set any primer properly in them. I have no such problems with winchester or S&B brass. So I have just bought a sinclair primer pocket uniformer as I have nearly 200 cases to waiting to be fixed up. I spoke to the supplier about the problem, but they wern't very concerned.
Also saw the 47gn hornet mold on forum you I think youare talking about, I do like the look of it. I may try to get one, 4 cavity as well and a hollow point in one cavity.
Cheers Euan.

[leftiye]

Just one thought - If your chamber is not crooked, and your fired brass is not thin enough to fail to grip an oversize boolit (notice = cast), how is that worse than a sizing die that might size brass crooked (which is of uneven thickness - unless you neck turn it, and uneven hardness)? Lightly thus gripped, the boolit pull factor is as good (uniform) as it gets. Set against the rifling, the pressure curve is as uniform as it gets too (not to involve non-uniform primers and powders). Unless your die is perfect, ALL deformation of the case comes from sizing.

[yondering]

Interesting about the brass. Maybe just a bad lot?
I recieved several different kinds of brass with my Hornet (Winchester, Hornady, and nickel plated Remington), and found the Remington brass was the most consistent. It was also the lightest, yeilding slightly more case capacity.


Rocky, OR maybe thumb seat boolits in unsized or marginally sized necks - seated out to touch the rifling.

That's sort of what I do. Bullets are seated long in a neck sized case; only .200" of the neck is sized, and seating depth is about .15" if you don't count the slight boat tail on the bullets. Very little neck tension, as I can pull the bullets out by hand, but they are close enough to the rifling that they don't jump out of the case on ignition. Shorter seating depths, even with more neck tension and crimping, didn't give accuracy nearly this good.

This is with the 40gr Hdy V-Max, over 14.5gr AA1680 (pretty much a full case) and those cheap (at one time) Russian small rifle primers, in a Ruger #1. Accuracy is sub 3/8" groups at 100 yards. Obviously this load and seating method won't work in a magazine fed gun.

[StarMetal]

I have a CZ 527 Hornet. With the Hornady A-Max it shoots 3/8 inch groups. That gave me an idea of what I wanted out of cast. The NEI 55 grain bullet seems to be the one for my CZ. It will shoot it into 1/2 inch easy.

I have both Rem and Win brass. I use the Lee collet neck sizer and haven't lost one piece of brass over 10 years. I use both small rifle and small pistol primers. I have zero problems with seating primers.

Being the collet neck sizer doesn't size the neck down as much as a regular sizing die, my bullets aren't under a lot of neck tension. With that said I seat them to just kiss the throat. I don't crimp them.

I'm very pleased with the results of jacketed and cast from my CZ.

Joe

[ihmsakiwi]

Well my Lyman primer pocket uniformer finally arrived from Midsouth and what a revelation!! Primers now fit perfectly. It completely touches up the full area of the bottom of the pocket in the Remington brass but only touches the extreme outside of the bottom of the pockets in the WW brass.
I am one happy camper. Peter

[Bret4207]

I got a uniformer a couple years back it always surprises me to take some brass that's has a few full house loadings and see how much the pocket has changed. Handy tool.