Separate lever gun brass from revolvers?

[crabo]

In anotther thread, a poster said that you should separate your lever gun brass from your revolver brass because of the different chambers? I'm talking 357 brass here.

Do you think that is necessary? I have a lot of new Starline brass and I would rather not unless there is a real reson for it.

I am going to trim all the brass and debur flash holes and do primer pockets. I really don't want to keep the brass separate also.

[joatmon]

I don't myself, now if I had problems chambering brass fired in one into the other then I would. We are talking pistol calibers, rifle caliber brass fired in different rifles may need to be kept seperate if neck sized.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

If you full length size your brass (which is what you should do for lever actions anyway) I can not imagine how there would be a problem. I used to have a revolver and a lever both in 45Colt. I never had a problem, always full length sized my brass. I have never heard of anything like this, the only thing that comes close to this is for people that neck size there bolt action rifle brass. If you have multiple bolt actions in the same caliber and you want to neck size your brass then I can understand why you would need to keep the brass separated, but that sounds a little ridiculous for revolver lever combos.

[405]

Maybe, maybe not. Seems like a wiseguy answer but....

For example: I have a 38-40 Colt Bisley original I shoot. I have a 38-40 Winchester 92 lever original I shoot. And I have a 38-40 Winchester 73 lever original I shoot Two reasons I separate them completely into three well marked cartridge boxes and don't mix them. 1) they have slightly different chamber dimensions. 2) A full pressure load that is OK in the Winchester could easily disassemble the Colt and wouldn't be the best for the for the 73!

If both the handgun and the rifle/carbine are similar in strength and have similar chamber dimensions there would be little reason to separate them other than for different loads more suited to one than the other like short barrel, less recoil, different bullet, powder, etc. but the brass could be treated similarly for each.

[crabo]

586 S&W and a Marlin 94 in 357 Mag are the guns.

[C A Plater]

I don't separate them by revolver and rifle unless it is a special load for that particular firearm. I'm more concerned with the number of times a case has been loaded so I track batches of brass (50-100 cases). All mine are strait wall and go through a carbide sizing die so that is a factor. Current dual use is .45 Colt, .44 Mag, .357 Mag. and .32 H&R.

[S.R.Custom]

586 S&W and a Marlin 94 in 357 Mag are the guns.

Assuming that the chambers of both weapons are within spec and the respective loads were assembled in the same manner, any benefit to segregating brass to each gun would be entirely imagined.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
I seperate ALL my brass to a specific firearm period. I do not interchange brass from one firearm to another. I neck size only and have no problem with feed through lever actions ( 30 Gov, 375 Win, 38-55, 41 Mag, 44-40, 45 Colt, 45-60, 45-70... yea I am hooked on lever guns) I also have long case life.
I ALSO do not exceed sane case web expansion measurements. Why overstress a rifle ? If I need more power I just get a bigger bore.
I also seldom carry carry a revolver when toting a lever gun about.... I am not looking to start an attack on a village and there are few masses of critters that will stand up to repeated accurate shots at close range.
If I have a revolver along also it is usually my 41 mag titanium Taurus that weights near nothing and has 41 Special type loads in the chambers for that occasional encounter that needs a termination but not much power to do so.

[Dogg]

Crabo from what I gather in your first post you are just talking about the brass and not loaded rounds. I am assuming you full length size your brass and keep an eye out for cracked cases or loose primers. In which case unless you are obsesive-compulsive why worry about them. Now if you are talking loades ammo and you load hotter for the rifle then yes seperate your brass. I think a lot of shooters may seperate just so they can maintain records or ammo shot in a certain gun and how long their brass last and what type failures they get (accountant/scientific types). In my world it is size it,reload it and shoot it and to h!@#ll with all the other stuff. If it cracks or primers are loose get rid of it and get some more!
Dogg

[Harry O]

Maybe, maybe not. Seems like a wiseguy answer but....

For example: I have a 38-40 Colt Bisley original I shoot. I have a 38-40 Winchester 92 lever original I shoot. And I have a 38-40 Winchester 73 lever original I shoot Two reasons I separate them completely into three well marked cartridge boxes and don't mix them. 1) they have slightly different chamber dimensions. 2) A full pressure load that is OK in the Winchester could easily disassemble the Colt and wouldn't be the best for the for the 73!



I used to have the same problem with the same caliber. Shorten the sizing die a small amount and you can use sized brass for all of them. That has the effect of lengthening the straight part of the neck, which is where the difference is for my guns. I have done that with all of my WCF sizing dies. 0.060" to 0.075" will do it. The pressure of the load is a different matter.

[O.S.O.K.]

I do not segregate the brass as I full length size for the .357 Mag regardless.

If you were wanting an accuracy load where you neck sized only, then you would want to keep the brass separate.

I've done that with 45 Colt - hot loads and kept the brass for my Ruger BH seperate so that the loaded rounds would fit snuggly in the chambers.

[August]

I guess some folks have more time for this stuff than others do.

I've been finding high primers after firing a stage for about six months now. I keep saying I'm gonna separate the brass into three groups, by gun, at the unloading bench in an effort to figure out which gun is associated with primers backing out.

Apparently, it's not that important to me since I've not done anything about it for six months. I can't keep up with the cleaning, tumbling, loading, storing issues I have now. I'm sure as hell not gonna separate my rounds by the six pistols and five lever rifles that they're fired in. No sir.

[AlaskaMike]

I'm with August--I have much better things to do than separate brass needlessly.

[405]

Sure, no need to separate for minimum effort vs max time spent firing downrange. Just find the lowest (smallest) common denominator for sizing and size all the brass to that spec. In most cases (no pun intended) the most critical to size down to would be the handgun. Just size them all to the Smith 686 chambers for drop-in clearance. Chances are about 99+% that they would easily fit right into the Marlin. Whether or not that case sizing would be optimal for the Marlin accuracy or case life- who knows??? But, doesn't matter if the objective is minimum effort vs volume of shots fired.

[dsmjon]

Some people part their hair, some people have dreadlocks, some of us have hair running away from our faces.

Point being, we're all going to have different habits. As long as you're not mixing LOADED ammunition for diff. firearms, then don't worry about it. The sizing die sizes them for a reason... to bring back to within spec. But if you have one loaded hot for a rifle, you obviously wouldn't mix that with handgun ammo (yes, I know there are exceptions).

To answer the OP's question though, no. The sizer die is going to make all the brass the same size anyhow. *ASSuming* you're FL sizing, not nexk sizing (where applicable).

[Jeff Davis]

I had mentioned in another post that I had read in the #13 Speer manual under .357 Magnum
for Rifle that Marlin 1894s have a bolt system that is "springy" (their quote)and that brass fired will stretch faster than normal, enough that trimming may be necessary.
I own a Marlin and a Handi Rifle in 357. Have I done this? Not with any consistancy, but then I don't get to shoot very often as it is, and I always have too many new additions to try out to focus on these two personal favorites.

[S.R.Custom]

... Marlin 1894s have a bolt system that is "springy" (their quote)and that brass fired will stretch faster than normal, enough that trimming may be necessary.

An issue for calibers with shoulders on the cases, to be sure, but straight wall cases that headspace on the rim? I think not.

[runfiverun]

straight walled cases stretch too.
it only becomes an issue when they go past the end of the chamber.
craig for your situation i would find a load and shoot it through both guns.
i have a couple er 3 45 colt lever guns they all get the same load i also have a pair of usfa'ss that would not last long with those loads so i use a different brand of brass and or/a different boolit style for them there is no confusion at all then.
for my 44's and 357's they all get the same load in the same brass for general work.
if i am gonna shoot targets i have something different for the revolvers. but then again a different boolit is used.

[crabo]

runfiverun, right now I am working on the 7 grains of Herco and Unique for my lever gun and revolver for general target work. I don't need to hot rod them because I have bigger guns.

I have been in the "don't trim, shoot em til they split" camp on my revolver brass up until now. I am going to do some tests with mixed and untrimmed brass vs mixed, trimed, flash hole deburr and new trimmed, deburred,same brand of brass tests. Should be interesting to see where I end up.

[cajun shooter]

The L frame Smith will take any round that You load for the Marlin. I've owned and shot both of these guns for years. In fact just traded my 586 that I've had since 1986 for a 44-40 92. I would size for the chamber of the 586 and go shooting. I think that you have chosen two nice guns to go together. Enjoy!

[runfiverun]

7 grs and the 158 flat nose is my go to load.
i trim when i see uneven crimps and i sure ain't gonna cut primer holes for no levergun thats only required to hit 8" at 200 yds.

[NickSS]

I never bother sorting brass for hand gun calibers. I have run tests in the past with new brass of different makes. I went so far as to trim, uniform primer pockets and flash holes and weigh the cases. I then loaded them with weighed powder charges and used custom swagged bullets that were within .1 gr of weighing the same. I then shot them and compared groups with ammo loaded into range pickup brass that was mixed make, not trimmed and not uniformed using thrown charges. After firing tests with 38 spl, 357 mags, 44 mag and 45 acp I came to the comclusion that I could not reliably shoot better when putting a lot of effort into loading pistol ammo. So today I use mixed brass, thrown charges and do not worry about anything but finding safe loads that my guns like. I shoot the same ammo in both revolvers and rifles routinely. For special ammo primarily for hunting I load hot ammo for my lever action rifles. These I mark and keep separate so as not to put them in say a colt clone. Some of my 45 colt rifle loads may be dangerous in a model P colt clone.

[GRid.1569]

I shoot a 1894 in .357, and a Taurus revolver (.357) and here's what happened to me...

Shoot the Marlin mostly and just the revolver an odd time, I was shooting in a comp at Bisley (UK equiv of Camp Perry).. Found I couldn't chamber the rounds in the revolver cylinder easliy, wouldn't go in without real force, couldn't rotate the cylinder and extraction of the troublesome rounds was near imposssible...:groner:
Early exit comp fees wasted :groner:

Found the case heads had expanded and was limiting the travel into the chambers... the full length resizing wasn't able to reach the part of the case just above the rim (the shell holder was obstructing + Dillon dies have a tapered lead into the die) so it wasn't resized... Rounds worked OK in the rifle though...

So I suspect differences in the chambers (and case expansion due to higher pressure in the rifle from the closed breach) was just enough to cause the problem chambering in the revolver...

Bought new cases exclusively for the Taurus (nickel just to make it easy) and since then no problems...

Can't say this would effect you the same but that's my story and I'm stickin to it...

[MakeMineA10mm]

I'm kind of late to this party, but as a combo-gun lover myself, here is my take, after a lot of thoughtful deliberation. [smilie=1:

My source is the great Ken Waters who had the Pet Loads column (and book) in Handloader for many, many years. He actually did TWO separate columns on the 44 Magnum as a combo cartridge, but the columns were published many years apart.

In the earlier column, he pointed out that due to some differences in gun strengths, it was possible to load the same cartridge (44 Magnum in this case) to different levels to get the most out of each firearm. In point of fact, these days, you can certainly load a 44 heavier for use in a Ruger Super Redhawk vs. how high you can load it for, say, a Marlin carbine... Ken went through many descriptions of how to optimize loads for the revolvers he used vs. the carbine, and dutifully and thoroughly documented everything.

In the second column, which was probably published about 10 years later, he completely switched tactics. He pointed out that it is at least inconvenient, and potentially at worst dangerous to have any ammunition loaded to a level that if it was inadvertantly put in the wrong gun, could wreck it, or at least not fit (say from a variation in OAL, which is optimized for one gun, but is too long to function through another). In the second column, he focused entirely on finding useful, safe, and functional loads for BOTH carbine and revolver use.

My own way of thinking about handloading my ammunition is that I want the equivalent of factory ammo. I want my ammo to be safe and functional (and hopefully accurate) in any gun in that caliber that I stick my loads in.

Am I loading to a "lowest common denominator"? Yes.

Am I sacrificing some performance that could be squeezed out of a particular firearm? Yes, probably SOME. (I'd say not much - like around that last 5% or so.)

Is my ammo safe, easy to store, easy to load, easy to keep track of? Absolutely!


In the 44, I have about three loads. 1) Subsonic Keith load (he used Unique, I use W231...), 2) Plinking load (205-225gr RNFP w/ light load of W231), and 3) Thumper load (290gr RNFP w/ 18.5grs of AA#9). Those loads are safe in every gun in 44 Magnum chambering, and all but the Keith load will feed and fit in every gun I own in 44 Magnum. (The reason for the 225gr RNFP is that the Keith isn't a reliable feeder in all carbines.) The heavy load is no where near max, but it gives enough velocity to be authoritative. Wouldn't hesitate to shoot anything that needs shooting with that load and expect excellent performance.

In your case, since you're talking 357, I'd shoot my standard 357 load, which is 358156PB (GB) & 5.6grs of W231. Again, far from a max load, but it's way more than a 38+P also... There's nothing wrong with a load of 7.0grs of Herco, either. That's a dandy powder and load level (again, more than a 38, but less than max.) If that SWC doesn't feed reliably in your lever gun, I'd switch to a RNFP that would. Then, you'd have one load that works in all your guns. No sorting, no keeping track, no storage records, no "accidents" or mistakes due to picking up the wrong box of 357s...

[GRid.1569]

I'm kind of late to this party, but as a combo-gun lover myself, here is my take, after a lot of thoughtful deliberation. [smilie=1:

My source is the great Ken Waters who had the Pet Loads column (and book) in Handloader for many, many years. He actually did TWO separate columns on the 44 Magnum as a combo cartridge, but the columns were published many years apart.

In the earlier column, he pointed out that due to some differences in gun strengths, it was possible to load the same cartridge (44 Magnum in this case) to different levels to get the most out of each firearm. In point of fact, these days, you can certainly load a 44 heavier for use in a Ruger Super Redhawk vs. how high you can load it for, say, a Marlin carbine... Ken went through many descriptions of how to optimize loads for the revolvers he used vs. the carbine, and dutifully and thoroughly documented everything.

In the second column, which was probably published about 10 years later, he completely switched tactics. He pointed out that it is at least inconvenient, and potentially at worst dangerous to have any ammunition loaded to a level that if it was inadvertantly put in the wrong gun, could wreck it, or at least not fit (say from a variation in OAL, which is optimized for one gun, but is too long to function through another). In the second column, he focused entirely on finding useful, safe, and functional loads for BOTH carbine and revolver use.

My own way of thinking about handloading my ammunition is that I want the equivalent of factory ammo. I want my ammo to be safe and functional (and hopefully accurate) in any gun in that caliber that I stick my loads in.

Am I loading to a "lowest common denominator"? Yes.

Am I sacrificing some performance that could be squeezed out of a particular firearm? Yes, probably SOME. (I'd say not much - like around that last 5% or so.)

Is my ammo safe, easy to store, easy to load, easy to keep track of? Absolutely!


In the 44, I have about three loads. 1) Subsonic Keith load (he used Unique, I use W231...), 2) Plinking load (205-225gr RNFP w/ light load of W231), and 3) Thumper load (290gr RNFP w/ 18.5grs of AA#9). Those loads are safe in every gun in 44 Magnum chambering, and all but the Keith load will feed and fit in every gun I own in 44 Magnum. (The reason for the 225gr RNFP is that the Keith isn't a reliable feeder in all carbines.) The heavy load is no where near max, but it gives enough velocity to be authoritative. Wouldn't hesitate to shoot anything that needs shooting with that load and expect excellent performance.

In your case, since you're talking 357, I'd shoot my standard 357 load, which is 358156PB (GB) & 5.6grs of W231. Again, far from a max load, but it's way more than a 38+P also... There's nothing wrong with a load of 7.0grs of Herco, either. That's a dandy powder and load level (again, more than a 38, but less than max.) If that SWC doesn't feed reliably in your lever gun, I'd switch to a RNFP that would. Then, you'd have one load that works in all your guns. No sorting, no keeping track, no storage records, no "accidents" or mistakes due to picking up the wrong box of 357s...

...and that "lowest common denominator" a very sensible approach... good advice MMa10