CCW selection help

[BeeMan]

A lady friend would like some help finalizing a CCW carry choice. She has a bit of shooting experience including various 22s, 38s in 357 revolvers, a PPK in 380, plus a few rifles. She knows the importance of proper fit and her recoil tolerance.

We spent a hour or so in a local shop where she handled a number of pieces in 9mm. She narrowed the list, in order of best feel, to a Taurus Millennium, a Springfield XD, and a Keltec. She also handled a Kahr and Smith M&P but nothing clicked with these. She does not want a revolver. Cost matters, but not at the expense of function or service.

Since I don't own a center-fire auto loader, I'm asking for experienced users to comment on her top 3 picks. If there are similar pistols that you feel must also be considered, I'll find a shop that carries them as well.

BeeMan

[Edubya]

I own two XD-9s so I'm biased. I'll admit that it takes a few rounds to get the hang of the trigger but reliability is superb! The grip safety is a hang up for some and a darling for others. The grip-safety requires you to have a firm grip before you can squeeze the trigger off. I think that this causes one to push the barrel away (for a right hander, they will generally shoot to the left of the bullseye until they get accustom to the action).
You can get a lot more info @: http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/index.php
At the same time, I love my .38 S&W 424. I'll carry either one with confidence. The bigger bores are nice but these two are always ready to tuck and go, regardless of my attire.
EW

[Jeff Davis]

I had a Keltec PF9 briefly. It was a dream to carry; almost as flat as a Colt 1903 Pocket model, light weight, 7 +1 capacity, even had a rail on the dust cover for a light or laser.
No holster to fit it, but it stayed comfortable and with me in Mexican carry behind my hip.
BUT...
It had very sharp checkering that made itself known everytime you pulled the trigger. Recoil was very fast and aggressive, like getting caned in the palm and web of thumb/index finger.

Tried several loads in ball, JHP & 115 gr/124gr. Accuracy was not consistant (max range was
10 yards), no doubt from my inability to control it under fire. I knew I would never devote the time to handle it and on its way it went. Call me lazy, but guns these small and light take a lot of time to master, and time for me is in short supply.

I would go for a double column frame like the P11 or the Millenium. I think either would fit her hand better for more control. The XD seems a little thick to me, but it's the lady's decision.
Can she test fire any of the models? That would clinch a winner for sure.


Regards,
Jeff

[jack19512]

I personally carry a Glock G26 and like it a lot. Just curious why she doesn't want to consider a revolver? If she is firm on the no revolvers whatever she picks I hope she makes sure she can rack the slide good, and this is even with slightly sweaty hands if need be. Myself, I always recommend a revolver to someone that is relatively new to firearms. My wife has trouble operating the slide so a .38 cal. revolver is what she carries. She shoots it quite well.

[softpoint]

I almost always recommend a double action revolver for the ladies, and it's a good choice for anyone, for that matter, One of my personal favorites is the S&W 3inch J frame 357 with adjustable sights. I carry it inside the pants in a Simply Rugged holster, that can be worn either inside or outside the trousers. One reason the DA revolver is good is the lack of needing any kind of mechanical external safety. Can't forget to take the safety off. Or forget to put it on. the Glock and Springfield XD pistols are also good in that respect, but if the lady is prone to just dropping a loaded pistol in her purse at times, I'd still recommend the revolver. Doesn't need adjustable sights, either, probably better off without them, I carry mine fishing, and have shot a little small game with it, therefore the adjustable sights.
Whatever she is comfortable with and can shoot well.:smile:

[peter nap]

I just bought my wife a PT 24/7 pro with a 3 1/4 bbl in .45 ACP.

She love it and it's accurate to boot.

[softpoint]

jack19512,
Good point on being able to rack the slide, too. While I think the auto pistol should certainly be carried with one in the chamber, the slide has to be racked at some time.
:smile:

[jack19512]

jack19512,
Good point on being able to rack the slide, too. While I think the auto pistol should certainly be carried with one in the chamber, the slide has to be racked at some time.
:smile:








I am one of those kind of people that believe if you are going to carry a loaded firearm you need to be responsible. There could actually come a time when this lady might find the need to unload her firearm and with a semi-auto I know of no way to get the last loaded round out but by ejecting the round or firing the weapon. I actually believe that anyone that carries a weapon should know how to maintain it also. That means disassembling and cleaning . A revolver simplifies this very much in my opinion.

[MtGun44]

For many women, size and wt are serious issues, often leading to not carrying.

The Keltec P3AT is so small, light and flat and SIMPLE that it is very likely to actually
be there and ready to use when needed. .380 is no powerhouse and the recoil is
snappy enough to be unfun after about 20 rds of practice at a stretch, but I think
the key is to avoid violating "RULE ONE".

GUNFIGHTING RULE ONE: Have a gun.

90%+ of 'self defense gun uses' do not involve shots fired. 100% of 'self defense
gun uses' involve having a gun.

Ruger LCP is a good quality copy.

Bill

[S.R.Custom]

...Ruger LCP is a good quality copy...



The Ruger is a better copy. The Ruger has a slide latch. (The Kel Tec .380 does not have a slide latch or catch of any kind.)

[ETG]

I prefer Sigs. I have a 9, 40, 357, and 45. The P245 (45 cal) recoil is more comfortable than the 9mm in my opinion. The single stack models I think would fit a woman's hand better. Have a Keltec and would not reccomend it - recoil is on the harsh side. That said, my sister prefers my S&W 639 over all my others.

[BeeMan]

Thanks for the input guys. Racking the slide was addressed by both the shop owner and me. No problems at all there.

I'm working on opportunity to try the XD and Millennium. Keltec is out of the running between recoil comments here and unimpressive sights.

[JSH]

I am one of those kind of people that believe if you are going to carry a loaded firearm you need to be responsible. There could actually come a time when this lady might find the need to unload her firearm and with a semi-auto I know of no way to get the last loaded round out but by ejecting the round or firing the weapon. I actually believe that anyone that carries a weapon should know how to maintain it also. That means disassembling and cleaning . A revolver simplifies this very much in my opinion.

Jack, I could not agree more. I have seen the folks get their permit and run out and buy some things that they regret. Mostly casual or non shooters to begin with. The Keltec is a dandy to carry, but never impressed me much with function nor accuracy. Ditto on recoil.
I have tried to talk myself into a Taurus a few times and never did.
The more I see post on this subject the more I see, $$$ as an issue. GOOD gravy folks if you are real serious about this an extra $100 is tough to get in tough times, but we are talking about ones life here! I see the same thing in rifles. Guy spends $6-800 on a rifle and then buys a $65 scope and thinks he has somthing to shoot to the horizon with......................
I would much rather buy a used quality gun than a new higher priced clunker.
I really think she is missing out by dismissing a J frame and 38's.
A carry gun IMHO should be shot no less than every two weeks and cleaned weekly.
jeff

[big dale]

I had a 9mm Kel-Tec for a while and could never get used to its trigger. I have been happy with my Glocks since then. I have big hands for a guy. Different situation. I would take her to a range with a selection of rental pistols and buy her whatever puts a grin on her face once she has shot a few of them.

Big Dale

[bobthenailer]

i have a karh pm 9 that i love! accurate , reliable, low recoil , very shootable . i also have a kel tech in 380my only beef is after 25 rounds my trigger finger gets beat up in the trigger guard and a para ordance p 12 alloy frame all good choices but i have shot 2 different kel tech light weight single stack 9mm s , alot of recoil and the trigger on both were in my opinion unshootable

[TCLouis]

I have always recommended a 38/357 revolver for beginning shooters.

I don't know bout the qualification requirements in your state, but TN requires a 50 round course of fire.

I was watching a class as I pulled RO duty and one shooter had a brand new 38 spl. She could no longer pull the double action trigger after about 25 rounds.

No matter what gun is purchased little issues like this should be worked out ahead of time. Some pistols have pretty tough double action trigger pulls also.

No, she did not have anyone to assist her with her shooting.

[Lloyd Smale]

I have two lcps set up with crimson trace grips. Couldnt imagine a semi auto easier to hide in a purse or with the lazer actually hit something with a shooter that doesnt have much experience.

[Bret4207]

Watch that ability to rack the action thing. My wife loves her EAA Witness 40 but she has to cock the hammer back to be able to rack the slide. The extra pressure of the hammer is too much for her hands.

Just something to think about.

[Thin Man]

BeeMan,

Most of the gripes we hear from the females when choosing a handgun indicate their limited strength. They choose a semi-auto over revolver because of the weight of the trigger pull, then run into issues with the weight of the recoil spring in the semi-auto. It is infinitely easier for an experienced 'smith to smooth/lighten the revolver's trigger weight (and retain reliability) than to reduce the weight of a semi's recoil spring (again demanding reliability). My first recommendation for the new shooter/carrier is a small, lightweight revolver in 38 Spl. loaded with wadcutter or SWC boolits. When up close & personal, these loads cut a full diameter cavity and do not demand veolcity (thus reduced muzzle blast & recoil) to get the job done. Their lower cost (is that even possible these days??) and availability supports practice.

If your friend still demands a semi, get her to determine the frame size first. In the very small 32/380 group, look at the LCP and Kel-Tec. We still see the occasional Kel-Tec 380 with issues, but rarely the Kel-Tec 32, and never the LCP. In the mid-size frame group, the Kel-Tef PF9 has issues with the trigger spring dropping off the trigger bar. Also, the Kel-Tec family of DA semi's (mid-size) have the same long, heavy trigger pull as most revolvers. The P11 is generally reliable. It is less expensive than many other makes in 9mm. There are many makers offering light weight mid-size 9s, but cost and availability are challenges. The earlier comment about having her fire several different styles and sized of handguns is excellent. Good luck, and let us know which firearm she chooses.

Thin Man

[jack19512]

I do not know how experienced the lady is with firearms but for me that light trigger pull with the semi-auto's is what worries me. If she had a semi-auto that can be fired double action first shot that would eliminate that problem.

I have seen people, men and women shake badly when really scared or stressed and no one wants to have an accidental discharge especially if the firearm is pointed at someone. Law suit and jail time to follow! :groner:

[August]

I've tried a lot of different things. The best of the best are a Glock 19 and a Smith 638. Carry one, or the other, depending on amount of concealment available.

[Crash_Corrigan]

My ex loved to shoot my S & W 586 6" 357 with 38's. She loved that gun. Accurate and she would go through 6 boxes of ammo in about an hour. Recoil was a joke and the thing was so smooth.

For a carry gun she tried everything I had. The 1911 had too much recoil and she could not operate the slide. Ditto on the Browning Hi Power and the EAA Witness Elite Match 9MM, The Ruger SA's were fun but not practical for CCW. The Taurus Ultralight 85 was OK but hurt her hands about after 1 box of ammo. Powder puff loads were OK but full house 38's were a bit much for her.

I found an old Llama 380 ACP that looked like a mini 1911 for a decent price and picked it up for her. It fit her hands perfectly and she loves it. It is small enuf to carry around and she can shoot it very well up to about 50 feet. I know it is kinda light for a CCW but it is better than nothing.

She still had a problem working the slide as she has some medical issues regarding arm strength. I took off a couple of coils from the spring and it made it easier. The main thing is that if she keeps one in the throat she will not have to work the slide at all. If she shoots the gun empty then just put in a new magazine and let down the slide release and she is back in business.

I bought about 6 mags for her and it is keeping me busy making the practice ammo she is shooting.

She took her CCW course recently and passed with a perfect score. Beware of a blonde with PMS and a CCW weapon.