ok, am I missing something

[Randal45]

Hi,
I have been lurking here quite a while now and now I am becoming qualified to join up. I've got a NEF 45/70 that I'd like to try my hand at PP. I've read as many of the past posts as I can and have tried to study up on PP. Here is what I've done so far:


1. Slugged the barrel. The groove measures 0.457" I have no idea what the bore measures as......stupid question....how do I mic'd the bore grooves? The bore groves are spiral and my micrometer just has the ends of a cylinder as the measuring surface. Do I need a special micrometer for this?

2. I am using some of my 0.452" 230 LRN bullets from my 1911 to PP.

3. I wet-wrapped two layers of tracing paper around the boolets. I gave up on using an angled-end tracing paper as the length of the 230LRN wouldnt let me align the paper correctly for the roll. I did buy a cigarette rolling machine but, since I never smoked in my life, I didnt find out until later that 45 boolits are too large for this machine.

4. I bought a Lee 0.457" sizer kit. I lapped it out to 0.458"

5. I sized my dry boolits to 0.458" with the Lee lube. I mic'ed them out and they were 0.458"

6. Now, I am ready to load them. Since 230gn 45/70 loads are hard to find I am going to start out with 45/70 powder loads for the 300gn boolit.

Can I use 300gn 45/70 powder loads to start off with? Even if I use trapdoor loads? I was also going to load up some of them with 16gns Unique, which should put them at around 1100fps. I'd like to get these 230 boolits going around 2000fps, if possible.

Am I missing something? I want to try this PP thing out but dont want to kill myself!

Thanks for any tips!

Randal

[docone31]

Sounds alright for a start.
I do not wrap black powder cartridges. However, the sizeing looks good. It is a start anyway.
Keep us posted.

[leftiye]

Bore - stick a rod with a slow taper in your muzzle. Measure it where it stops going into the bore. Note - only works if your muzzle isn't worn. Best - use plug gauges. If it fits tight, that's as good a measurement as you can get. My NEF 45-70 is .452X.457. Sounds like thin paper is called for, BUT thicker paper sized down may be better.

Get some "real" boolits fer that cannon! Pistol boolits are not gonna be as accurate (probably) as heavier-for-caliber boolits are. Why patch plinking loads?

[RMulhern]

Yep!

"I'd like to get these 230 boolits going around 2000fps,"


:-?:killingpc[smilie=b:

[Randal45]

Bore - stick a rod with a slow taper in your muzzle.

Get some "real" boolits fer that cannon! Pistol boolits are not gonna be as accurate (probably) as heavier-for-caliber boolits are. Why patch plinking loads?

Two reasons: I already stock them for my 1911 and I want to try this PP thing and I thought "what da hell, let's see what happens!"

I am sure the real world will set me straight and I'll order a box of 400grn'ers and be on my way!

Randal

[RMulhern]

Better yet....order some 530-540 grainers and they'll work better!!

[Lead pot]

Better yet....order some 530-540 grainers and they'll work better!!

Yep and 446 diameter unpatched[smilie=2:

[Nrut]

[smilie=b: :holysheep [smilie=p:

Do you two fellas know how much a Handi in 45-70 weighs???...But maybe at the pistol velocities you BPCR guy's shoot those big 530-540 grainer's they won't kick so much...I don't know.....:mrgreen:

:kidding:

[windrider919]

I understand your reasons for using the 230 gr bullet. I too have a couple of light bullet loads using PP for small game / plinking. Bit you might find accuracy is very hard to find if the bearing surface length is short. What I found is that the bearing length needs to be at least as long as the bore. IE: for a 45 cal bullet I never could get varmint accuracy unless the bore riding length was at least close to .45 long in a lead bullet. The best bullet i found for light bullet loads was the RCBS 250gr .454dia round flat nose. In my .458 WinMag (did you see all the past post on PP loading for this cartridge? 45-70 is a 2.1", 458WM is a 2.5") it loads without sizing because patched to .462 it fits the chamber throat and gives excellent accuracy and no excess pressure. Fired, recovered bullets mike .452. However, NO pistol bullet [w/ one exception], jacketed then paper patched or cast lead gave good accuracy above 1800 FPS. Since I wanted them for squirrel n rabbet loads I did not want too high a velocity anyway and so I actually load down to 1500FPS as a compromise between trajectory and meat destruction. even so, I only take head shots because any body shot leaves nothing but hamburger. whereas any contact on the head tears it off. I have also used the 250gr on feral hog twice with great success (while hunting small game so that is all my rifle was loaded with).

I also found that the Hornady .452cal 300gr HP/XTP (#45230) when PP and shot at 2000FPS IS both very accurate and X-plosive.

A further note should be made. If you shoot reduced loads you need to read the threads on that as damage to your rifle is possible depending on powder used and empty case volume. Proper use of filler eliminates the danger.

The 45-70/2.1 will shoot lots of non-traditional loads, everything in the picture below was first tried out in it before I switched to the .458WM/2.5, the shotshell on the right is loaded with 410-3" data.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll249/windrider919/Some458WMloads002.jpg
Some of the various loads I use that also work in 45-70

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll249/windrider919/WindRider_PP-455-460-NP.jpg
45 cal 460gr PP bullet w/ grooves for smokeless use to 'grip' PP
Because I found that the 500+ gr PP bullets just kicked too D**m much with smokeless loaded to +1800FPS for long range shooting so a lighter bullet was designed to shoot long range PP yet leave me with a shoulder after 50 shots!

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll249/windrider919/22PPExpMould159.jpg

[Buckshot]

..............Many long years ago I paper patched up some Lyman 255gr 452490's. At the time I'd just begun paper patching which was all brought on buy having aquired a MkIV Martini in 577-450. Patching up these short fat peestol slugs was a challange compared to the 450gr 45 caliber Lee's I'd been used to. In any event I had just about finished up loading some up with a light charge of Red Dot in 45-70 cases. Both 6 and 8 grains seems right. I don't remember now which it was, but it wasn't much.

My buddy Larry knocked on the back door so we BS'd a bit and then decided to try a couple of these newly loaded 45-70's out. I lived out in the sticks then, so it was just walk out the back door and around the corner to the field 10' from the end of the house. There was an old dead Mulberry tree stump maybe 20 yards away. The field was in need of discing as the stump was just visible over the 8-10" tall dead weeds.

I have a MAS36 that I'd converted to 45-70 and that's what we used. I asked Larry of he'd like to do the honors so he drew a bead on the stump. The rifle made a somewhat subdued bang. But the stump rang like an anvil, and it was obvious he'd hit it a glancing hit as we could trace the passage of the slug through the weeds :-) It went through the weeds like a turbocharged jackrabbit. Our driveway, which was lined on both sides with hogwire on steel T posts was about 30 yards away. We heard a 'Ting-Ting' as the slug managed to hit wire on both sides, and then skittered off across the other field raising 3-4 puffs of dust like a rock on a pond!

That thing must'av gone a hundred yards after hitting the stump. I was impressed! It was my turn so I took care to aim dead center of the stump. Again we got the rather uninspired report, but the stump gave off a ringing smack. It was easy to see the hole and it looked like it'd been drilled with a half inch bit. I stuck in a bit of a stiff little stick and it stopped about 1-1/2" deep or so. Once again I was impressed as that wood was as hard as concrete.

I never did much with patching pistol boolits up for the 45-70 after that. It was just one of those "Hey, I wonder what'll happen if I do this" type deals. I had no earthly use for them and their ballistics would have closely approximated that of shooting a nickle, face on. Would'av been absolute hell on ground squirrels but the ricochet factor kinda soured that idea.

..................Buckshot

[Lead pot]

[smilie=b: :holysheep [smilie=p:

Do you two fellas know how much a Handi in 45-70 weighs???...

:kidding:

Is a handi a revolver or a rifle :kidding::smile:[smilie=l:

[Nrut]

LeadPot..
They are a light weight brake open single shot rifle...I would image that they don't weigh much more than 6 pounds...Some people are recoil nutz...:veryconfu
But not me..

[Randal45]

LeadPot..
They are a light weight brake open single shot rifle...I would image that they don't weigh much more than 6 pounds...Some people are recoil nutz...:veryconfu
But not me..

Correct. That is why I have no desire to use anything heavier than 300grns. I could not imagine what the recoil would be with a 500grn boolit coming out of the Handi rifle!

[725]

Even the heavy stuff gets tamed right down to real pleasent levels with a mercury recoil dampener in the stock.