Armi sport 1863 .451 rifle

[senormik]

Hi all,

I'm new to cast boolits and blackpowder but I would like to try shooting an armi sport 1863 paper cartridge Sharps rifle that I bought several years ago while stationed in Germany. Perhaps foolishly, I got one in .45 cal. I don't want to invest in casting my own boolits until I know I'm going to enjoy the rifle, and so far the only cast boolits I can find that are close are 45lc slugs between 300-400 grains and running at .452 diameter. Most of these are gas checked. Any idea if these are acceptible to shoot in this rifle (bore marked .451)? They all seem to be hard cast as well, so I'm not sure they'll obdurate to grab the rifling well. Any thoughts or suggestions you have would be helpful. Thanks!

[59sharps]

You need a hollow base bullet. about .002 under your actual bore dia. You can check w/ Dixie Gun works and also Ball Accuary I'm sure there are others but they are the ones I can think of at this time. Try the N-SSA board or home page for a list of sutlers.
once you know what you need then start casting your own. and they need to be pure lead
you may want to ask the mod to move this to muzzleloading section

[senormik]

Thanks very much for your response. I should have clarified in my original email, it's an 1863 Sharps breech loader. I think I was told at one time or another that I would want a bullet that is a bit over the nominal bore diameter for this type of rifle. Does this sound right? Something about if the bullet was smaller than the bore, the gasses generated during firing would melt more lead in the bore I think.

[59sharps]

yes you do. i had an armi sport in 54 cal the bore turned out to be 548. I would suggest you still slug the bore. to se what you have. Dixie sells bullets for the sharps and so do others but not sure w/ out looking who. I would suggest a christmas tree bullet that is the 3 bands on the bullet are 3 diffrent sizes and looks like a christmas tree. I cast my own from a custom made mold. but its a 54. and a streight wall bullet. other good sights to go to are as I stated the N-ssa board. also go to the shiloh board they have a section just on the 59 and 63's. The guys there will help you even though you do not have a shiloh. Some time down the line you may want to look into the modifications you will read about and no dought be told about.
Ive had the mod. done to my armi sport and it made a world of diffrence.

[NickSS]

I have a 45 percussion sharps made by Pedersoli and I shoot regular 45-70 400 gr bullets in it. I cast my own but you can buy them from Buffalo Arms if you want to try some. They come sized and lubricated with black powder lube which is important. I shoot mine with both paper cartridges and loose powder and bullet. To shoot it without making paper cartridges just open the breach, push a bullet in and shove it as far forward as you can with a piece of dowel stick. Point your muzzle down and pour in powder (black only) until the chamber is full then close the breach. Put a musket cap on the nipple and fire away.

[senormik]

59Sharps - Thanks for the tip on the Shiloh forum and the recommendation on the Christmas tree bullet. This is what I'll try once I settle on a diameter!

NickSS - I appreciate you passing along your personal experience with a .45 paper cartridge rifle. I wonder if these Italian bores are significantly oversized (as 59Sharps seems to indicate). You haven't noticed any excessive leading or other problems with a .457 caliber 45/70 bullet in what is supposed to be a .451" bore? Sounds like I should try that first, instead of .45LC bullets.

Anyone else out there have any experience with these .45 paper-cartridge Sharps rifles?

[montana_charlie]

senormik,
Just in case you don't already know...

When a rifle barrel is made, it is first drilled lengthways with a smooth hole. This will be reamed, polished, and honed to become the 'bore' of the rifle. In a .45 caliber barrel, this hole will be close to .450".

Then, the rifling grooves are cut in the wall of the barrel. These grooves will be from 2 thousandths of an inch deep, to perhaps 6 thousandths. 4 thousandths is a common groove depth, today.

If the 'bore' is .450", and there are 4 thousandths deep grooves on both sides of the bore, the 'groove' diameter is .458".

A lead bullet, to be fired in this barrel, should be at least .458" in diameter so it fills the grooves...eliminating the gas cutting you mentioned earlier.

Bullets intended for use in 45/70 cartridges are typically .457" to .462" in diameter...with the exact size being chosen after slugging the bore. This, in a .45 caliber rifle with a .450" 'bore'.

Your breech-loading, percussion Sharps is intended to use a bullet with a groove on the very bottom where a paper cartridge is tied to the bullet with string. The idea is to be able to load the rifle with a single 'object' in a single motion.

But, that bullet will have a groove-filling diameter of somewhere between .457 and .462 inches...just like those made for metallic cartridges.

It's not required that you use the paper cartridge style bullet. As said earlier, regular 45/70 bullets may be used, and the powder poured in loose.

You do not want to use bullets that fit your 1911.

CM

[senormik]

Thanks for the information and your time in responding, Montana Charlie. I wasn't 100% sure, and your explanation makes a lot of sense. I should have puzzled that out without bothering you folks! I am glad I asked the question, though, as I'd hate to harm the rifle. Sounds like if I stick with readily available 45/70 bullets I'll be alright. Also sounds like I'll have to get around to slugging it for best results.

By the way, I'm just a little bit jealous that you're located in Montana. I went to school in Missoula and I love the state!