M1 Garand, 30-06 Varget loads

[ilcop22]

Good evening,

I'd like to know if anyone has experience reloading for the M1 Garand with Hogden Varget powder?

I'm shooting a cast Lee .309 diameter flat nose bullet, g/c and crimped. Right now I'm loading with Wolf Primers which - so far - have withstood the infamous "slam fire".

I went out to the range today and shot 10 rounds of loaded 30-06 using 35g of Varget. No problems with cycling and no ftfs. I seat to an OAL of about 3.14 inches.

If anyone could share some load data of any success or failure stories, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm having trouble deciding my charge.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

Which mold?
C309-113-F, C309-150-F, C309-170-F, or something else?

Did you slug your bore? If so, what does it measure?

Are you using military brass or commercial? This makes less difference in .30-06 than it does in .308, but you should still not mix cases.

How did your load group, and at what range? Was it basically circular, or did you have vertical stringing?

How do good commercial rounds group with that rifle?

[ilcop22]

Which mold? C309-113-F, C309-150-F, C309-170-F, or something else?

It's the C309-170-F.

Did you slug your bore? If so, what does it measure?

I have not. The rifle is new.

Are you using military brass or commercial?

I've reloaded only Winchester. I have LC but haven't loaded it.

How did your load group, and at what range?

No group, just test fire for cycling and ftfs.

How do good commercial rounds group with that rifle?

Have not used any good commercial rounds. I'm cheap and don't like to buy ammo. XD

[ilcop22]

Update: I half-assed slugged the bore (Used a cast bullet as opposed to an egg). Bore diameter of .298 and .304 groove diameter. Its rough, but gives the idea.

[mroliver77]

Half assed begets half assed! Unless you get a good impression on your slug it means nothing.
My Garands all like .310 or .311 boolits.

Do some searching on this site as there are some good threads on this subject.
It sounds like you found a place to start so work from there. See if the boolits will group at 50 yards. Load up some "dummy" rounds to find the seating depth. Measure the I.D. of a fired case neck. This will give you an idea of the chamber neck size as the brass will expand to the size of the chamber and then contract a couple thou. Something close to this measurement will be your boolit diameter.Keep at it and let us know how it groups and all pertinent info.
Last but not least, Welcome to the forum!!
Jay

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

Yep, give that barrel a good slugging. The fewer unknowns that you're dealing with, the better. Make sure the barrel is spotlessly clean beforehand, removing any copper or lead fouling.
There are more than one threads on slugging barrels. Someone recently posted a video on the subject; can't remember who offhand.

Don't worry one bit about whether the action cycles; that's easily corrected with a one-time gas plug change.

Midway sells a Schuster adjustable gas plug:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=777146
Garands were originally set up to cycle actions when firing 152gr to 172gr J-word bullets at between 2750fps for 152gr and 2640 fps for the 172gr. You won't be able to get that kind of velocity out of cast boolits.

Your primary focuses should be on group accuracy (derived from consistency and experimentation with load, seating depth, lubricant, boolit hardness, powder, etc.) at safe pressure levels.

If you don't have the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 3rd Edition, order it. It's cheap:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=796528

Garands are great rifles. Most of them require tuning to get them to shoot really well. They aren't like AR15's; just about anybody can slap one of those together from off-the-shelf parts and get good groups using milsurp ammo.

If you want to get good results, it's going to take an investment of time and research on your part.

Being new to reloading, you really need to spend time studying up. Handloading is great, but it's easy to make mistakes. It's a very good idea to double-check loads using multiple reputable sources, such as printed books and the component manufacturers themselves.

I don't know for certain if it is safe to load Varget that low. Some powders can produce unexpected high pressures when loaded below minimums.

Hodgdon states on their website that it is safe to load H4895 down to 60% of maximum. However, you cannot use H4895 load data for Varget, as they are different powders.

[ilcop22]

Thanks for the replies, though I was more or less asking for some experienced Varget loads to work with. I'm new to the forum, but not to reloading. I do appreciate all the effort involved, thank you.

[ilcop22]

I just officially slugged my bore... Looks like my half assed version wasn't so bad!

.297 and .305, respectively.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

Geeze, that's a TIGHT barrel! I've never heard of one being that small.

Sure you're not smooshing the slug a bit with your measuring device? Not hard at all to do that.

Are you using a dial caliper, or a clamp-type micrometer?
I think the latter are more accurate if you use the same light "feel" for setting the zero as for measuring. I don't use the built-in "click" in the handle to apply torque; they're much too coarse and apply too much pressure.

If your bore is really that size, you're going to need to size your boolits down mighty small; say .306" or .307".

One of the fellas in the top sticky in this thread on page 5 is using 31gr Varget with a 202gr boolit and getting at least halfway decent results

[ilcop22]

To be honest, I'm a bit wary of those readings. I don't even know HOW it could get that tight.

I'm using the same digital caliper featured in Surplus Rifle's bore slugging article. (coincidence)
http://www.surplusrifle.com/reloading/slug/index.asp

I've measured no pressure, light pressure, moderate pressure - Same results. I need to find something to gauge the accuracy of this caliper.

[Hip's Ax]

"The rifle is new."

May I assume this not a USGI Garand? Is it Springfield Inc or some other??

[ilcop22]

"The rifle is new."

May I assume this not a USGI Garand? Is it Springfield Inc or some other??

Its new to me. Its USGI dated back to '42.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

I'm thinking there might be some copper and/or lead fouling left in the bore.

I can't imagine some manufacturer letting a Garand out of QC that had a barrel that much undersized. You'd get some mighty high chamber pressures with J-word ammo.

[Hip's Ax]

Is it a USGI barrel? What is stamped in the barrel behind the op rod?

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

I have a USGI Garand made between '53 and '55 (they didn't keep good records those years).
It only has a couple hundred rounds through it, bore is dead on 0.300" - I haven't slugged it because I'm not planning on shooting it with lead boolits for the time being. I still have quite a few J-word bullets to go through first.

[eta]
Found on another site:

Original G.I. specs. set the allowable tolerances for bore diameter at +/- .0010 inches even during WWII. I have the drawings. At one time I was able to go through 80 NOS G.I. barrels. We found several that approached "1" but none over and a few as low as negative .5 at the muzzle. Almost all measured a "1" at the throat. I do not remember seeing any "0" throats.

Another thought is that possibly the barrel has rust/pitting. That could be scooping microscopic chunks of lead off the slug as you whacked it through the bore.

How does the bore look? Really bright and shiny, or do you see evidence of pitting, or dull areas?

[ilcop22]

I'm thinking the main problem is that my caliper is inconsistent. I found inaccuracies in measurements up in the hundredths and thousandths. I measured several precision tools, other boolits, J's, etc. I won't know for certain until I obtain something... better. Kind of disappointing for a $30 dollar caliper.

As for the bore, it looks great. Its bright and shiny, much more than most of my milsurps. No pitting. The rifling is sharp, too.

I'm going to give it a good cleaning and re-slug it.

[ilcop22]

I went ahead and re-checked my caliper. I tested on several precision instruments. I followed the troubleshooting guide and cleaned it as instructed.

First couple measurements? Perfect. Every subsequent one? Off by a lot. Remeasured things that were perfect on the first few tries, and they were off again.

I ordered a new one. Lets hope this works out.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

Glad you found out the source of the problem.
Like any precision instrument, calipers are very vulnerable to damage if they're dropped on a hard surface - but calipers are more fragile than most. Yours may have been damaged in shipping.

[ilcop22]

I should be receiving the new caliper this week - I'll let you know the results when I get it.

[mtgrs737]

Mics are usually more accurate than calipers. I would bet that your barrel bore is between .3075" and .3085" Good luck and keep us informed on your progress. I will be heading down that same road very soon when my gunsmith gets my garand barreled and headspaced.

[ilcop22]

Range Report - 09/17/09

I took the 'ol Garand to the range today and tested the following load:

Winchester Case - New production
Wolf Large Rifle Primer
170gr g/c Lee boolit - .309 diameter sized and lubed with LLA
35gr Varget
Seated to OAL of 3.016 - crimped

Range distance: 50 yards - benchrest

Results:

The load was insufficient. Reported one failure to cycle. Rounds Grouped large around the X ring (~2.5-3 inches) from sand-filled rest.

Comparison:

CMP delivered Greek HXP .30-06 ammunition. J******* bullet. Grouped at 50 yards sub 1"
Same as above. Grouped at sub 1" at 100 yards.

Seems my load needs some tweaking. Will try three different powder loads next time. Hoping to get it right!

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

You know that max OAL is 3.340", right?
If you're down to 3.016, that's quite a ways for the boolit to travel before it gets to the rifling.

If you're going to use more Varget in your next load, you might try casting some boolits using the Wilk gas check method, and compare results with and without the Wilk checks in the top band.

Have a read: http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/hl134partial.pdf
Article starts on the 6th page.

I'm going to try it using the Lyman 311413 boolit, which is a spire point, when I can find my doggone .30 GC's...

[Bob S]

Any published OAL length for the cal .30 or 7.62 cartridge is irrelevant for cast bullets in the M1 or Mk2-1 rifles. Bullets, whether jacketed or cast, need to be seated for some "jump" into the rifling in the M1 or Mk2-1 rifle. Any resistence to chambering will eventually cause a slam-fire.

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[ilcop22]

It may have been 3.16. In any case, the boolit is seated to a depth less than the ball load to achieve what Bob S described.

[ilcop22]

Caliper update:

Got the new caliper today. Measurements were .300 and .308. Cast boolits measured .309.