"WW will ruin your barrel"

[mto7464]

This is what a guy told me last night. "because they have tin in them" I couldn't convince him otherwise.[smilie=b:

One little comment and over 100 post a and 3000 views. Must be close to a record.

[cheese1566]

I heard a similar thing when I started calling around town last year to tire and service shops.

One service station owner told me he threw his away because his tire dealer told him to. The dealer said they contain zinc and those will ruin a barrel in no time. I tried to explain to him what we do in smelting and sorting the weights. He still refused to give em up.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

Don't use wheel weights from Michigan; they might rust your barrel.

Send them to me instead.


:lol:

[Three44s]

Never use used wheel weights that rolled through Kalifornia ...... they are truely commified.

Three 44s

[AJ Peacock]

Never use wheel weights from tires on the left if your barrel is a right hand twist.

AJ

[Le Loup Solitaire]

One upon a time, lomg ago I was hunting in a very remote corner of Northeast Idaho and met an individual who told me that if you "din't cook wild boar meat nuff you'd catch trignometry". I guess that Einstein was right when he said that the angle of the dangle depends upon the heat of the meat while the mass of the ass remains constant. LLS

[outdoorfan]

I was on a road trip a couple months back, and my buddy and I stopped at a recycling center. We asked the fella if he had any lead, specifically ww's. He said "no", then asked us what we were going to use it for. After hearing us say "making bullets", he said, "I wouldn't ever use ww's for making bullets. They would be way to brittle. The reason is because they have tin in them." After I politely explained to him that ww's typically only have .5-2% tin, he said, "Bull S--t!! They have much more tin in them than that. They are so brittle that I can break those ww's in two just by snapping them in my fingers."

At this point my buddy and I just left. What an idiot. And he was no "popeye", being able to "break" them in his fingers.

[stubshaft]

One upon a time, lomg ago I was hunting in a very remote corner of Northeast Idaho and met an individual who told me that if you "din't cook wild boar meat nuff you'd catch trignometry". I guess that Einstein was right when he said that the angle of the dangle depends upon the heat of the meat while the mass of the ass remains constant. LLS


ANY idjit knows that you only get trignometry from uncooked rabbit!

[geargnasher]

I had a friend in college who got it from his girlfriend.....[smilie=1:

Musta had ten in her I mean tin in her :shock:

Send all those tin weights to me! I have a gun with a special geometrical barrel that can handle trignometer boolits, and an occasional deffereentchal equalizer boolit, too.

Gear

[carpetman]

If you don't catch trigonometry, surely you'll need surgery on your shoulder to repair your "locator" cuff. I've heard about all kinds of problems you will encounter if you shoot cast bullets---funny thing none of the people that told me of these problems have ever shot cast bullets.

[Marlin Hunter]

ANY idjit knows that you only get trignometry from uncooked rabbit!

and Calculus from Cows

[Bad Water Bill]

Worse uv all u kin git algebri from anti lopes

[303Guy]

Ever wonder how those poor souls manage to tie their shoolaces?:roll:

By the way, TIN is one of the hardest substances known to man! Not sure about breaking it in ones fingers.

[shotman]

darn I guess I should not shoot jackets . Maybe that is that NEW soft copper
Oh I did have a guy tell me that you couldnt make sinkers out of them. The oil would scare the fish

[Tom W.]

No,shooting jackets is kinda like dust jackets, only different. But they surrender rather quickly...

[qajaq59]

Ahhhhh, for the good old days when there was fewer of us and we weren't nearly as DUMB!!!

[Bret4207]

I rarely discuss casting with other shooters. The sheer lack of knowledge about normal reloading or even simple ballistics is appalling. Talk casting and it's just hopeless. I guess it kind of figures when you realize most guys get their information from advertisements and the so called "gun writers" of today. A guy like Townsend Whelen or even Elmer Keith would be way too technical for them.

[44man]

I have been sitting here going over this again and again And I am truly sorry I can't come up with a thing that is funnier! :bigsmyl2:
I almost spilled my coffee in the keyboard and finally calmed down enough to type.
Keep going guys and thanks for a great start to my morning. :veryconfu

[dale2242]

Just got the October issue of G&A mag. I Patrick Sweeneys article Tool Time, in the Handgunning section, he states "Lead bullets mean leading". The article was selling the virtues of the Lewis Lead Remover. Another gun rag EXPERT. Don`t believe all you read.....dale

[Matt_G]

Just got the October issue of G&A mag. I Patrick Sweeneys article Tool Time, in the Handgunning section, he states "Lead bullets mean leading". The article was selling the virtues of the Lewis Lead Remover. Another gun rag EXPERT. Don`t believe all you read.....dale

That's exactly why I quit subscribing to all those rags years ago.

[roarindan]

My wife and I made our weekly trip to the city for groceries,while we were waiting to check out,one of the boys from the gas station scene in "Deliverance" turned to me and says......."Today is Labor Day,but it dont got nutin to do with work....its a day set aside cause this is the day women go into "labor" for der babies"

[Landric]

Just got the October issue of G&A mag. I Patrick Sweeneys article Tool Time, in the Handgunning section, he states "Lead bullets mean leading". The article was selling the virtues of the Lewis Lead Remover. Another gun rag EXPERT. Don`t believe all you read.....dale

Wow, I wish someone had told me that earlier. I'll have to let my guns know that they are supposed to be leading. :veryconfu

Since I switched over to exclusively boolits cleaning my guns has been much easier than when I shot jacketed projectiles, and guess what, no leading!

[qajaq59]

That's exactly why I quit subscribing to all those rags years ago. Yup, that and the fact that they're 99.9999% ads.

[mooman76]

Keep the rumors coming. It's hard enough to find bullet lead as it is without a bunch thinking they can have great success with lead bullets.

[44man]

No matter what anyone says, gun writers have to push products advertised in the magazine and NEVER those that are not.
Nobody will ever convince me that they don't get kickbacks, special prices and tons of free stuff either.
Just look at the equipment and guns they have. On a writers salary they would be lucky to buy a pound of powder!
I would have to sell my home to have enough money to outfit just my loading bench like those pictured in the gun rags. Then a gun collection to rival the NRA collection----GET REAL!
Who pays the writer to test a new rifle where he uses every powder made, every primer, all brass and shoots 20,000 rounds to make his charts? Months or a year of work for an article in one magazine. If the magazine is paying you can be sure the money came from an advertiser.
Has anyone ever seen a gun test on the great BFR revolvers? Has anyone ever seen an ad for them? Have you wondered why they don't sell for $2500?

[cbrick]

I'll add to 44man's comments, if writer X is writing an article on product X and product X advertises in the magazine the article will be published in . . . do you believe for a second that writer X will say anything bad about product X?

Rick

[canyon-ghost]

Dad still has his old .22 Revelation (made by Marlin) semi-auto rifle he bought when I was a kid. Shootin' them waxed lead bullets is horrible on a gun!

Just proves you don't buy a .22 from Western Auto, huh?

[softpoint]

Cast boolits have often lead me away from jacketed...............................

[Uncle R.]

[QUOTE=44man;662619]No matter what anyone says, gun writers have to push products advertised in the magazine and NEVER those that are not.
QUOTE]
You're quite right - it's apparent when you consider what the rags advertise - and print.
Sadly, The American Rifleman (which long ago was one of my favorite sources of information) is now one of the worst offenders. There are often ads for the subject of this month's "testing" right there on the adjacent page.
Kinda transparent, aren't we?
When I was a young man twenty - well, maybe thirty - years ago the Rifleman's articles sometimes described test items that were junk. Guns that wouldn't feed - wouldn't group - wouldn't fire - things that broke after one use - all kinds of details of problems that simply wouldn't happen with quality stuff. The editors let the chips fall where they would and the readers got solid information. The articles didn't come right out and say "this is a piece of junk" but the information was there. NOW the Rifleman is worse than many of the "commercial" gun rags - making excuses for shoddy quality and poor performance and crappy accuracy and always finding a reason why you should rush out and buy.
Sigh.
And no - I don't believe much of what I read in the rags, and yes - some of the writers are appallingly ignorant, and no - I don't read the rags very often.
Uncle R.

[fredj338]

Never use used wheel weights that rolled through Kalifornia ...... they are truely commified.

Three 44s

While I can't disagree, Washington is right behind Kalif. in the liberal nut job department. You guys are next in line for the lead ww ban.:-P

[JSnover]

No wonder all my Massachusetts WW boolits shoot to the left......

[qajaq59]

No wonder all my Massachusetts WW boolits shoot to the left......
LOL Oh, you're killing me here............. I have to send that on to my relatives up in MA.

[kywoodwrkr]

A guy like Townsend Whelen or even Elmer Keith would be way too technical for them.
Bret,
I agree.
They are more in line with expertise from the level of Mr. Magoo and/or Elmer Fudd.
Oh, and an expert- or 'ex spurt'
That's a "has been drip under pressure"

[qajaq59]

I rarely discuss casting with other shooters. The sheer lack of knowledge about normal reloading or even simple ballistics is appalling. Talk casting and it's just hopeless. I guess it kind of figures when you realize most guys get their information from advertisements and the so called "gun writers" of today. A guy like Townsend Whelen or even Elmer Keith would be way too technical for them. Other shooters? That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with there.

[AZ-Stew]

My little brother told my dad that I had been down to the river to collect allergy for my 9th grade science project.

Then there have been a couple of adults I've known who were big on malaprops. A ham radio/shooting buddy from years ago when I lived in Commiefornia always clamed that he was saving his shackles to buy radio or shooting equipment. And if he decided he was going to do the same thing everyone else was doing, he said he was going to follow pursuit.

Another gent told me he had problems with his prostrate gland (you know, the one that lies down), and that he could get pronography on his cable TV. He never explainded whether it was pro-nography (done by professionals) or prone-ography (done horizontally).

Regards,

Stew

[Papa smurf]

Ha mto7464 , dont even try to chacge your friends mind. Have him and all his buddies drop of those nasty WW at your place so you can get rid of them in order to protect everyones guns from being ruined.
Good Shooting----------------------Papa Smurf

[9.3X62AL]

No wonder all my Massachusetts WW boolits shoot to the left......

California wheelweights must do the same thing. This poses problems for NCBS, since it will require a sight-in prior to record firing, and the rear sight always needs adjustment to the right at the Winnemucca range site. I have always wondered why this has been the case--now I know.

More info from the Web--courtesy of Cast Boolits--that would never appear in mainstream gunrags.

[mto7464]

Ha mto7464 , dont even try to chacge your friends mind. Have him and all his buddies drop of those nasty WW at your place so you can get rid of them in order to protect everyones guns from being ruined.
Good Shooting----------------------Papa Smurf

I use to try and correct people when they were wrong but that was in vain now I just walk away.

[Rocky Raab]

You were wrong on the first page, 44man. You DID manage to say something much funnier.

Kickbacks and free guns to writers? Oh, now you have ME wetting my keyboard. I'm a "so-called" gun writer, and proud of it. Frankly, writers are among the more honest kinds of guys I've ever met. I know of none who is in the business long who writes under any wink, wink, nudge arrangement with ANY advertiser.

Now, advertisers DO offer test guns and such to the magazines they advertise in. That does make sense, if you give it only a nanosecond's thought. But it's on a short-term loan basis, and they all go back afterward unless the writer offers to buy it. I do reloading articles, and on occasion will ask for support with primers and such. Couldn't afford to do 3,000-round load workups on my own dime. Not for a few hundred bucks for a published article.

And guess what? No gun writer would hold any beliefs like the ones described in the first posts. Maybe we're a bit more gun savyy. Ya think?

[dsmjon]

ANY idjit knows that you only get trignometry from uncooked rabbit!

Thrichinosis/trigonometry, what's the difference, right? :coffee:

[c3d4b2]

I heard the WW will ruin your barrel, it just required a lot more work to get the job done.:)

[44man]

You were wrong on the first page, 44man. You DID manage to say something much funnier.

Kickbacks and free guns to writers? Oh, now you have ME wetting my keyboard. I'm a "so-called" gun writer, and proud of it. Frankly, writers are among the more honest kinds of guys I've ever met. I know of none who is in the business long who writes under any wink, wink, nudge arrangement with ANY advertiser.

Now, advertisers DO offer test guns and such to the magazines they advertise in. That does make sense, if you give it only a nanosecond's thought. But it's on a short-term loan basis, and they all go back afterward unless the writer offers to buy it. I do reloading articles, and on occasion will ask for support with primers and such. Couldn't afford to do 3,000-round load workups on my own dime. Not for a few hundred bucks for a published article.

And guess what? No gun writer would hold any beliefs like the ones described in the first posts. Maybe we're a bit more gun savyy. Ya think?
I don't place all writers in that class. just the top guys. My friend also writes for a magazine and the deals he is offered sounds pretty good to me. He gets very little for an article.
Now go look at pictures of the top writers equipment and read the tests done on the piles of guns drug out of their own collections. Unless the guys are born rich or work somewhere else for big bucks, there is no way to buy all that stuff just from writing.
I worked hard all my life and made decent money but could never afford to keep all my guns if I wanted a new one. I had to sell 4 just to buy my BFR's.
A lot of the writers over the years were LEO's, did they get rich at that job?
No, it turns me off when a guy has a Dillon set up for each caliber and there is $10,000 worth of bullets and dies at the back of his bench. Then a guy trucks out his favorite Kimber rifle and says he has 4 more plus half a dozen double rifles but that's for another article. Uncle R is right, there is a Kimber add on the next page!
I really like it when one says he just had a custom revolver finished and has 2 more in the works then describes all the smiths and engravers the gun has been to along with the custom grips and leather from someone else.
Then they open the window with a rifle rest in front of it to shoot 1000 yards on their ranch.
I REALLY like the archery writers that travel the world to kill book animals of every sort. Has to be half a mill in booking fees a year. How about taxidermy fees?
I suppose all of them could be born rich, I don't know, but I would rather read something from the guys here then open some of those rags. I can't stand to read about their month long hunt to find the perfect animal. Had to finish so he could get to the next hunt.
I can't even get into the hunting movies on TV where all the hunts are on super expensive, trophy raising, outfitter's feed plots. They all act like poor southern folk with that lousy twang like they are all country singers. Paula Deen on steroids! :veryconfu
Do you think some of them are hunting free for the advertisements?? I could not afford to have even one of those trophys mounted, let alone pay for the hunt, yet every day the same guys are at a different outfitters, somewhere else in the country.
No I can't say it for all writers. Most struggle, maybe I just hate rich guys.
Before I forget, the thing that drives me nuts is when you buy something, if it is black or brown it is one price but if it has Realtree on it it costs $20 more. Can't even buy a plain arrow anymore, have to pay a premium for the design. Why the hell does an arrow need camo on it?
I am going to design an alloy that casts camo boolits, I could get rich! :bigsmyl2: I need a design for Kalifornia, any ideas?

[44man]

I suppose I could give you some reasons why I have a problem with rags and others.
I worked out the broad head tuning method long ago, wrote it up with pictures and had it copyrighted. I sent it out and was rejected all down the line. Now after all these years it has been stolen and even Easton is using my method and I can't do a thing about it without a LOT of money.
I learned more about the whitetail, their actions and how to fool them then even the Indians. I can actually stay with a feeding herd or have them all around me without paying any attention to me. My writings were rejected and it costs a fortune to put out my own book.
I figured out a lot of things for the company I worked for and every suggestion was tossed out, they were good for a year and every year my idea was then put in place.
I invented the first lighted bow sight and before I could finish working with diodes, it was stolen.
Here is a picture of my prototypes and yes, that is a light bulb that fits in a 1/16" hole, it feeds light through a fiber optic to a lens. The two on the right are diodes.
I don't trust anyone and never believe what I read, I do my own work.

[Caveape]

44man,

I sorta know how you feel. I just never made it as far with it as you did.

My mother always cut my hair when I was kid and then had me sweep up the mess afterwards. I didn't like doing it and knew there had to be an easier way. I came up with the idea of the "Suck Cut", a vacuum-powered hair cutting system that attached to your current vacuum cleaner and leaves no mess. But what is a 6 or 7 year old kid gonna do with that idea?

Then about ten years later, I see the darned thing on an infomercial of all things! No credit to me, of course.

Necessity is truly the mother of invention!

Caveape

[canebreaker]

yep the rags are full of ads and one good story. No mater if shooting or fishing.

I told a guy that we reload while watching tv in the living room. "aren't you worried about moister control?" No, I sit back sip my wine and have a smoke then resume loading.

After thinking of that. The wine could make the powder a bit hotter. A dump of ashes could compact the powder and increase the recoil on one shell. Nope, won't try either.

A co-worker said he had some old powder to get rid of. How old does powder have to get before you have to get rid of it? Like John Wayne at the alamo. He make a neat pile of the powder and a little trail about 5 foot away and lites it. DUMMY!!! Thrid degree burns on hand, forearm and face. Oh, and changing into work boots at his car and walking into shop with strings flopping. My youngest taught me this trick while playing soccor. I stepped on one of the strings and watched him eat concrete. But he told me all walmarts had the same products and at the same price. Good thing I drive some 3 miles farther or I won't save some 50.00 on weekly groceries.
Off of the subject some what. My gun has had less than a half box of factory ammo shot through it. I don't have a hardness tester. If I can swag them, I shoot them.

[303Guy]

Why the hell does an arrow need camo on it?So's you will need to buy another one when you can't find the one you just shot! Even I knew that one. :mrgreen:

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Yup, they are out there, and they are spawing more morons every day...Igronance is bliss, I guess., I like it when they are so dam sure of themselves they won't listen to a common since conversation....and they base their Idiotic comments on ....whut ? must be something in the water.

[Lunk]

So's you will need to buy another one when you can't find the one you just shot! Even I knew that one. :mrgreen:

Even I know that! :mrgreen:

[qajaq59]

Thrichinosis/trigonometry, what's the difference, right? The former hurts the body, and as I recall, the latter was painful for the brain.

[Bret4207]

Other shooters? That's a pretty broad brush you're painting with there.

If you talked with the guys I talk with you'd say the same thing. Many of these guys are mouth breathing, plant life IQ types- but they aren't all that smart......

[44man]

Thanks for the laughs, makes me feel better! :D
Been working like mad before season opens. I painted all the aluminum siding and trim on the house after hand washing the whole thing. Cut grass in between. Then the wife said she was going to paint the barn with the grandsons help. She bought $6 a gallon paint and after slopping it on thick the brush just wiped it back off when they tried to smooth it. They finished half of one side and quit. Guess who had to finish it and go over it with good paint? I power washed the rest of the barn and will spend the next 2 or 3 days painting.
Then all she has been doing is complaining that I never do anything, says all I did was stand out there and the machine does the work so I am thinking of just throwing the gallon of paint across the sides. Now she is upstairs complaining about my little dog bringing in a leaf so she sweeps the whole kitchen for the third time this morning, all the while grumbling under her breath.
Thank god for my dog and for all of you. At least you let me vent and make me laugh.
I still like the idea of camo boolits, then none of you can find any and I will take my lead magnet and recover them for myself.
But right now I am trying to figure out where to get enough money to buy a Scotch distillery! :coffeecom

[Oldtimer]

I'm with ya on the Scotch. Just make sure it's a Macallan, or J/W blue machine.

[SciFiJim]

Never use used wheel weights that rolled through Kalifornia ...... they are truely commified.
I don't know...the ones that I am holding prisoner in my shed do what I tell them to do.......most of the time [smilie=b:

[wills]

I rarely discuss casting with other shooters. The sheer lack of knowledge about normal reloading or even simple ballistics is appalling.

This seems to be true for virtually any subject.

[Rocky Raab]

Well, 44man, it's clear that your bucket of bitterness has overflowed to cover an entire industry. That's a genuine shame. I'm sorry you'll never be convinced otherwise (your words) but do keep in mind that some people out there are painting whatever you do with the same brush because of some bad experience they had. And it's not true for your industry as a whole, either.

One small thing that must be said about ads "magically" appearing next to an article about that product. Your assumptions are 180 out of phase. What happens is this: the magazine plans to print an article about a product. Their ad sales people offer the company an ad spot (for a highly premium price) placed near the article. The company does not normally get a chance to see the article ahead of time, and doesn't get a chance to edit or alter the words if they do get a courtesy copy.

It's the magazine taking advantage of the article to increase their ad revenue, not the company getting special treatment by way of an article/ad plus an ad. Neither the writer nor the product maker NOR the editor have anything to do with ad sales or placement. The writer does his job. The editor does his job. The ad department do their job, and the layout people do theirs. For the product company, it's a crapshoot whether the article will be favorable enough for the expensive ad to generate even one extra sale - and they don't control ANY of it. That's the truth.

I can't help with how staff writers amass their collections. They certainly get paid a lot more than I do as a freelancer, and they do get invited on sponsored hunts. On the flip side, they have to churn out an impressive amount of words and photos every month without fail, don't get to choose what they write about or where they go, or when. And when they put something controversial in print, it is there FOREVER. People STILL argue about Keith's 600-yard revolver hit on a deer - it was discussed yet again in an article just this month!

[shooterg]

Hey, tell the guy you want to test a barrel to destruction with the WW boolits, maybe 400 to 500,000 will do it !

[Charley]

Known a few writers, gun and other things. They are not all alike. Some are honest, some "write for the market", a polite way of saying they are lying their collective asses off. Editors are the ones you have to watch...

Local client inquired of Texas Trophy Hunter a few years back what he had to do to get an article publshed with them. The reply was along the lines of "write something salable, or be ready to buy a bunch of magazines".
He had about 3000 copies of TTH in his garage.

[44man]

Known a few writers, gun and other things. They are not all alike. Some are honest, some "write for the market", a polite way of saying they are lying their collective asses off. Editors are the ones you have to watch...

Local client inquired of Texas Trophy Hunter a few years back what he had to do to get an article publshed with them. The reply was along the lines of "write something salable, or be ready to buy a bunch of magazines".
He had about 3000 copies of TTH in his garage.
Exactly! That expresses how I feel about it.
There are good hard working guys and the rest of them that have to bow to pressure.
The reason for a lot of magazines pushing subscriptions. Once you sign up, you are stuck with a lot of crap but if you look at the rag in the store, you can put it back on the rack. They lose a lot of money when that happens.
Rocky, twice I have talked to Handloader magazine about maybe some future articles and twice I was not only rebuffed but the jerk got downright nasty with me. Both products were not advertised with them. Now you have to explain that to us! :takinWiz:

[10 ga]

Only "Gun Rag" I get is American Rifleman. Otherwise it's National Trapper, Trapper and Predator Caller, National Fisherman, and Whitetail Times. Of course they come with membership in various "Professional" organizations. You really want to confuse them start talking reloading, boolit casting, trapping, snaring, difference between a "predator" and "fur" rifle etc... Mostly they are so ignorant they don't believe anything you discuss, HA HA HA, sooo ignorant. Oh yeah, I always tell them I have a very bad case of incredulity. They act as if they understand.

[WILCO]

Now she is upstairs complaining about my little dog bringing in a leaf so she sweeps the whole kitchen for the third time this morning, all the while grumbling under her breath.

There's reasons why I'm divorced..............

[Echo]

Exactly!
There are good hard working guys and the rest of them that have to bow to pressure.
:

... they really don't have to - they choose to. If they want to stay employed, they do what their editor tells them to do, whether they believe it, or believe in it, or know enough about it, or not. It's an integrity thing. It happens all over - the Boss says Do This, and the employee better Do It, or else, else being finding another venue for employment.
John Boyd, fighter pilot, gave his Be or Do speech to his subordinates. Google him. A real maverick hero.

[Rocky Raab]

I dunno. Were you proposing to write those articles or just asking for them to be done and printed? Because they have about a three-year backlog of freelance articles in hand and aren't accepting any right now (believe me, I KNOW that!) Or, you may have been proposing/asking for things they don't normally cover; not because they aren't advertised products but because they aren't in the Handloader realm of things covered at all.

Again, it's more correct to say that advertisers seek magazines that cover their kind of product than magazines seek to cover whatever will attract advertisers. Your view of it is a cart/horse view when it's actually a horse/cart situation. That's the truth, my friend.

(I've known a few sellout writers, too. One in particular I won't name because I've called him on it face-to-face went from a guy who somehow always managed to use a particular brand of gun to an advertising rep for that company. He no longer can write anything for anybody, and never will again even if he leaves that gun company. But that's the choice he made.)

[9.3X62AL]

I don't get at odds with gunwriters very often, I understand that they are obliged by editors or ad realities to cater and adjust from time to time. I just focus what is written through that lens, and try to glean what I can from an article or story.

Let's also be fair to the writers--most of us here are NOT new to the shooting/reloading venues. Mainstream gun publications were a lot more interesting to me in 1975 because I was newer to the hobby than I am in 2009. So, I'll cut 'em a break more often than not, and draw the line at preposterousness--something like Mr. Zumbo's now-famous railings against the AR-15 a while back. Things like that DO beg the question--"Where was the editor on THAT piece?"

Casting and shooting of those castings needed more attention than what those subjects were given in the mainstream gun press, and that is why Cast Boolits was birthed.

[qajaq59]

Casting and shooting of those castings needed more attention than what those subjects were given in the mainstream gun press, and that is why Cast Boolits was birthed. You'd have to buy one huge pile of magazines to get the amount of info that is stored in here by this time.

[StarMetal]

I don't get at odds with gunwriters very often, I understand that they are obliged by editors or ad realities to cater and adjust from time to time. I just focus what is written through that lens, and try to glean what I can from an article or story.

Let's also be fair to the writers--most of us here are NOT new to the shooting/reloading venues. Mainstream gun publications were a lot more interesting to me in 1975 because I was newer to the hobby than I am in 2009. So, I'll cut 'em a break more often than not, and draw the line at preposterousness--something like Mr. Zumbo's now-famous railings against the AR-15 a while back. Things like that DO beg the question--"Where was the editor on THAT piece?"

Casting and shooting of those castings needed more attention than what those subjects were given in the mainstream gun press, and that is why Cast Boolits was birthed.

Al,

Back in those old gun writing days many of the good writers were learning too? So they passed along their ideas. Today it's more ring a new gun out for the article instead of the high tech stuff. One good technical writer who screwed himself was Rick Jamison. He explained the science part of things. Hated to see him go.

Another good writer that passed ideas along is Mike Venturio. I've alwasy liked Mike because he's from very close to where I grew up, we're about the same age, and we like similar types of firearms.

I miss old Skeeter too. He even told you of his mishaps.

Notice how Shooting Times and G&A are only like 60 some pages now instead of over 100 like they use to be? Just like coffee....smaller container higher price.

Joe

[Rocky Raab]

Lots of truth in those last few posts, too. As WE get more sophisticated, we probably do demand more from writers - who find it very difficult to learn faster than the crowd and be able to explain it. Then too, getting REALLY technical pleases darn few readers, many of whom are beginners and others of whom don't care. If writers try to stay at a mid-level of instructing/explaining, we end up with "How to Load the .30-06" articles. Ten times a year.

In short, they can't please ANYBODY.

The entire magazine industry is in deep doo-doo these days. Ad sales are declining (ironically because gun sales are so frantic that nobody NEEDS to advertise!), and that means fewer editorial pages can be filled. Newsstand sales and subscriptions are down because people are counting their pennies.

Worse (and let's be honest here) people simply don't read any more.

[skeet1]

I guess I have been going from one magazine to another for a long time. I use to be a long time subscriber to Handloader Magazine until I wrote to the editor and complained about one of their writers and of the lesser quality of their magazine when compared to older issues. I was informed by the Editor that we should be hanging together because of all the anti gun feeling in the country and not finding fault with them (my editing). By the way their gun writers is now their former gun writer and the last time I saw one of his articles it was in a shooting times I was browsing through.

Skeet1

[badgeredd]

Don't use wheel weights from Michigan; they might rust your barrel.

Send them to me instead.


:lol:

I'm a lot closer to the Michigan wws. I'd properly dispose of any of those salt contaminated WWs at no charge to the sender. :twisted: If I can't do it all by myself, I'm sure there are a couple fellow Michiganders here to help me! :lol:

Edd

[Dutch4122]

I'm a lot closer to the Michigan wws. I'd properly dispose of any of those salt contaminated WWs at no charge to the sender. :twisted: If I can't do it all by myself, I'm sure there are a couple fellow Michiganders here to help me! :lol:
Edd

Right here with ya, Edd! Just say when & where. I'd be happy to show up with the 3/4 Ton H/D and a few empty five gallon buckets to help dipose of all you don't have room for!:kidding:

[AJ Peacock]

I'm a lot closer to the Michigan wws. I'd properly dispose of any of those salt contaminated WWs at no charge to the sender. :twisted: If I can't do it all by myself, I'm sure there are a couple fellow Michiganders here to help me! :lol:

Edd

I'm in, me and my Pickup 3/4ton superduty and a trailer are here to help you save the planet. :bigsmyl2:

AJ

[44man]

Yeah, it used to take me a few days to go through Handloader but the last issue was good for 10 minutes. There is nothing useful in it at all.
Even Mike is losing it with his stuff about useless old guns that hardly any of us shoot or even own.
Between what he had to say and the push of new products there is nothing left.
New guns and calibers have been coming out for a long time, Handloader should be working with new stuff, why do we have to read about guns from 1917?

[Rocky Raab]

We're together on Venturino, 44. Maybe he got bored with it all, but he WAS a world-class expert on casting, blackpowder and revolvers. This new "interest" of his is terrible. And terribly boring to the rest of us.

[Dframe]

I was a LONG time subscriber to Handloader but dropped my subscription a few years back when they changed the format to basically the same as every other gun mag out there.
I used to really enjoy some of the in depth articles they had in the old days and one of my greatest thrills was actually meeting Maj George Nonte once.

[BruceB]

"New guns and calibers have been coming out for a long time, Handloader should be working with new stuff, why do we have to read about guns from 1917?"

MAYBE because a hell of a lot of us WANT to read about and study and USE the guns from 1917 or earlier?

Everyone is welcome to his opinion, but because you fellers don't enjoy reading/studying does NOT mean that everyone shares your position.

For my part, I dislike most publications of today BECAUSE they're full of nylon-plastic-aluminum-whiz-bang tacticool crapola, chambered for the latest magical cartridge which will die on the vine within ten years.

Firearms and their cartridges are surely the longest-lived of all the "modern" technical creations. Animals today are precisely the same as they were a hundred years ago. Cartridges that killed well in 1925 (the .270's birthdate) still kill well today. I'd hunt anything in North America with my 1898 Krag, and anything in Africa with my 1912 .404 Jeffery....happily! If the subject of "progress" is studied, the only major meaningful advances, important as they are, lie in the wonderful new bullet technology and the much-improved optical sights that new designs and materials have allowed. Bullet casting? Some of the very earliest designs are still among the best available, such as 311284 and others.

"Handloader" certainly is a much-diminished publication, and I no longer subscribe. They lost a lot of its charm and value with the departure of Ross Seyfried, who wrote about OLD guns as often as he did about new ones. However, to say it's because they don't publish stuff about current-day gee-whiz toys is flatly wrong for many of us.

I do miss the highly-informative issues of twenty years ago. The magazine would be read from cover to cover, EVERY article, and then I'd go back and study all of the advertisements as well. This taught me a lot about many subjects, but today's "Handloader" just doesn't merit that approach...too much fluff, not enough substance.

[Bret4207]

As usual Uncle Bruce hits the nail on the head. It's nice to know I'm not alone.

I have no clue how the staff writers like Layne Simpson, Craig Boddington, etc amass the collections they have. Ken Waters I could understand because he'd been collecting for more decades than most of us have been alive. Guys like Seyfried (sorry, not in his fan club) had stuff no one could possibly get hold of without a out and out lucrative outside job or some serious gifting from the advertisers. Same for many of the other writers.

While I mean no disrespect to Rocky or Mike I really can't believe some writers aren't out and out shills for the advertisers.The editors like Scoville, who was once a capable writer on his own, have absolutely ruined Handloader and Rifle. I have nearly all of them and you can see the progression downward when Scoville took over. Very sad. And there's no fixing it either. The best modern handloading writer I ever read was Rick Jamison and he committed career suicide I understand. Very sad. So that leaves us with seemingly nice guys like John Haviland who can;t say a bad word about a product and Clair Reese who may well be the worst gun writer, or writer period, in history. No! I take that back. I forgot about David Fortier who I affectionately refer to as "Mr. Dress Up" in honor of his infantile need to dress up like a soldier and pose with the guns he's hawking. Ya never saw Skeeter or Elmer do that. Ya never saw O'Connor or Page or Townsend Whelen dress up in a goofy outfit and try to look "bad".

Nope, I'm down to Fur-Fish-Game, Backwoodsman, The Rifleman (Life member) and I think I still get Handloader, but it might have lapsed. We get Field and Stream for my older boy but if they get much more foul in the language it's gone- same as American Handgunner and Guns.

As long as I have this place I can not only read posts by enlightened, knowledgeable and honest people, but I can discuss the issues with those same people. You can't buy that off any magazine rack!

[Wicky]

If you remove the clip on the wheel weights that gets rid of the tin, doesn't it??

[badgeredd]

I've gotten RIFLE since 1978 and I let it lapse early this year. It used to have really well written, informative, honest, articles in it. No more! I haven't subscribed to Gun's n Wammo or any of its cousins for years because of the lack of meat and taters articles, as well as the parent company's owners. Some say the internet is to blame for the decline of the magazines, but I frankly feel the lack of good HONEST writing has accounted for reduced sales more than anything else.

Edd

[qajaq59]

If you remove the clip on the wheel weights that gets rid of the tin, doesn't it?? No, the tin is in with the lead. The clips are steel.

[mto7464]

No, the tin is in with the lead. The clips are steel.

I think wicky was being facetious. I hope.[smilie=l:

[Rocky Raab]

No disrespect felt, Bret. We all have favorite writers and least-liked writers, for our own individual reasons. That goes for topics, too.

I'm a reloading guy. I love to find new life in almost-forgotten cartridges as much as I love to wring out brand new ones. That goes for components and tools, too. I've only done three gun reviews in all my years (and ironically, one is coming out any day now). My last piece in Handloader was the cover story on the 375 Winchester, and I think that was in 1998 or so.

I really like Brian Pierce, Sheriff Jim Wilson, John Barsness and a couple others; I'm lukewarm for Bart Skelton, cooling towards Venturino and positively cold to Layne Simpson and others. I will not argue with the comments about Clair Reese, even though he lives just down the highway. I finally met Rick Jamison two years ago, and he is (understandably perhaps) quite the cold fish these days.

The guys long gone who I've known and dearly miss include Bill Jordan and Bob Milek. Most of all, I regret never having the opportunity to meet Skeeter.

[qajaq59]

I think wicky was being facetious. I hope. Ya never know. lol

[HORNET]

As a flashback to the OP. them wheelweights WILL ruin your barrel. A mere 30-50,000 rounds and it'll start showing some wear.......ask those ASSRA boys.

[targetshootr]

I think those magazines are still in the pre-internet mode. Instead of waiting for a mag to come every month, you can log on from a cabin in the middle of nowhere and learn much more stuff a whole lot faster. They should concentrate on human interest stuff, or call it old-school writing.

[44man]

"New guns and calibers have been coming out for a long time, Handloader should be working with new stuff, why do we have to read about guns from 1917?"

MAYBE because a hell of a lot of us WANT to read about and study and USE the guns from 1917 or earlier?

Everyone is welcome to his opinion, but because you fellers don't enjoy reading/studying does NOT mean that everyone shares your position.

For my part, I dislike most publications of today BECAUSE they're full of nylon-plastic-aluminum-whiz-bang tacticool crapola, chambered for the latest magical cartridge which will die on the vine within ten years.

Firearms and their cartridges are surely the longest-lived of all the "modern" technical creations. Animals today are precisely the same as they were a hundred years ago. Cartridges that killed well in 1925 (the .270's birthdate) still kill well today. I'd hunt anything in North America with my 1898 Krag, and anything in Africa with my 1912 .404 Jeffery....happily! If the subject of "progress" is studied, the only major meaningful advances, important as they are, lie in the wonderful new bullet technology and the much-improved optical sights that new designs and materials have allowed. Bullet casting? Some of the very earliest designs are still among the best available, such as 311284 and others.

"Handloader" certainly is a much-diminished publication, and I no longer subscribe. They lost a lot of its charm and value with the departure of Ross Seyfried, who wrote about OLD guns as often as he did about new ones. However, to say it's because they don't publish stuff about current-day gee-whiz toys is flatly wrong for many of us.

I do miss the highly-informative issues of twenty years ago. The magazine would be read from cover to cover, EVERY article, and then I'd go back and study all of the advertisements as well. This taught me a lot about many subjects, but today's "Handloader" just doesn't merit that approach...too much fluff, not enough substance.
That's not the point. Sure a lot of you like to rehash old stuff but I am sure you can find any it of over and over if you look.
The point is, just how much more can be written about the .38, .357, .44 and .45? NOTHING!
Another point is that after all of you finished reading about the old guns, did you notice the rest of the rag was EMPTY. Cut out all the ads and product pushing and the thing would be a few pages thick. We are paying for filler, just like Handgunner where a fortune is spent on pictures of guns and no substance.

[PAT303]

Same could be said of new guns,how many ''new'' idea's are old idea's rebirthed?.I get sick of reading about a new model Rem 700 thats the same as an old model but with a shorter barrel or different stock or a straight out gimmick like the triangle shaped barrel one,please!!!,old guns are interesting,same with old scopes and iron sights.The trouble with all mags now is the articles don't have any body to them or the articles just aren't interesting,I'd like to see them shooting military rifles out to 1000yards or cast boolits to 500 or paper patching and things on this forum.That would be interesting. Pat

[qajaq59]

Let me puy it this way. If you are looking for information on shooting,casting or loading do you head for the magazine store or your computer? People are publishing like crazy, but they are doing it here.

[Bret4207]

That's not the point. Sure a lot of you like to rehash old stuff but I am sure you can find any it of over and over if you look.
The point is, just how much more can be written about the .38, .357, .44 and .45? NOTHING!
Another point is that after all of you finished reading about the old guns, did you notice the rest of the rag was EMPTY. Cut out all the ads and product pushing and the thing would be a few pages thick. We are paying for filler, just like Handgunner where a fortune is spent on pictures of guns and no substance.

I disagree, there's lots of ground to cover. Mike Venturino did a very interesting article (back when he was a mere wisp of a lad!) on how seating depth affected target accuracy in handguns. Jim Carmichael did articles on cast in the 270 Winchester and 6mm Remington. John Zameneck (sadly deceased) did several ground breaking articles on ZINC boolits! John Wooters (also gone) did a whole slew of great, friendly articles on the the 25 cals with cast.

If the freaking editors like ol' Cranky Scoville would let the guys write about what interests them the quality would be there and they'd cover the odd stuff we forget about.

[Bret4207]

No disrespect felt, Bret. We all have favorite writers and least-liked writers, for our own individual reasons. That goes for topics, too.

I'm a reloading guy. I love to find new life in almost-forgotten cartridges as much as I love to wring out brand new ones. That goes for components and tools, too. I've only done three gun reviews in all my years (and ironically, one is coming out any day now). My last piece in Handloader was the cover story on the 375 Winchester, and I think that was in 1998 or so.

I really like Brian Pierce, Sheriff Jim Wilson, John Barsness and a couple others; I'm lukewarm for Bart Skelton, cooling towards Venturino and positively cold to Layne Simpson and others. I will not argue with the comments about Clair Reese, even though he lives just down the highway. I finally met Rick Jamison two years ago, and he is (understandably perhaps) quite the cold fish these days.

The guys long gone who I've known and dearly miss include Bill Jordan and Bob Milek. Most of all, I regret never having the opportunity to meet Skeeter.

I think Brian Pearce is the new Elmer Keith/Finn Agaard. I just hope he stays true to his roots and stays on the ranch instead of turning into another Layne Simpson/Jan Libourel. Sheriff Jim seems like a good guy but falls well short of Skeeters writing ability, he just lacks that sense of humor I guess. Poor Bart is just riding Dad's coat tails. Barsness, Al Miller and a few other writers of that class would do well to search out another Ken Howell and start their own online magazine. If the meat was there I'd pay for it.

Mike? Personally I'm glad to see him write about something other than BP rifles and Colt Six-Shooters. And if your read this Mike, keep talking cast, but start killing off some of the old wives tales about HARD CAST, HARD BULLETS, HARD, HARD, HARD, HARD! Ya don't need hard alloy, you need FIT.

[44man]

I disagree, there's lots of ground to cover. Mike Venturino did a very interesting article (back when he was a mere wisp of a lad!) on how seating depth affected target accuracy in handguns. Jim Carmichael did articles on cast in the 270 Winchester and 6mm Remington. John Zameneck (sadly deceased) did several ground breaking articles on ZINC boolits! John Wooters (also gone) did a whole slew of great, friendly articles on the the 25 cals with cast.

If the freaking editors like ol' Cranky Scoville would let the guys write about what interests them the quality would be there and they'd cover the odd stuff we forget about.
But you said what I said, the work and writing has been done many times already so why repeat it? I have all of the old books and can find anything I need by looking through them. But today, there is zero information being printed that is useful.
Recently there were a bunch of continuing articles on the .223 where everything was tested. Great for a beginner but in the end I found nothing I didn't know already. The only change was the caliber tested, big deal, it is true for every rifle.
Sure there is a lot of ground to cover but who is doing it?
Lets say that you yourself have figured out everything about cast boolits and how to make them shoot from any gun. So you write it all up so it can be put in a rag for the next six months for everyone to learn. Let us say you get accuracy like I do with my revolvers every tick of the clock and include pictures.
Now you send it off but because you are not including the companies that pay for the ads in the rag, what chance do you have to get vital information out and you never hear from them or get a rejection slip?
Yeah the rag advertises Laser Cast but you found out they shoot for crap, so how far would you get by telling the truth. Same with all the boolit makers that use nothing but bevel bases and all boolits are only one size.
Face it, you wasted your time.

[44man]

There is one way to get anything you write in print from every rag. Bumble yourself into the woods, sit by a tree smoking and drinking beer. Along comes a record animal, the biggest in the world and you luck out by killing it. You got so rattled you flinched but the bullet bounced into the chest. :mrgreen:
Now you are famous and the best hunter ever! [smilie=1:[smilie=1: The world will beat down your door. You can just go back to other rags and repeat stuff over and over that someone else already wrote and even though you have no clue, it will be printed. Show maps and stand positions, WOW are you smart. You now know every deer by name, how old it is and where it will be at 5 o'clock.

[Heavy lead]

As sad as it may seem to some, magazines are dead, as our newspapers. This and other sights are now and the future, at least until something better comes along. Every thread simply is an article, and much better, informative, and entertaining than any article written by one writer. Good thing about a thread, the author can be called out in real time, no need for retractions. I've been taking the Wolf publications for years, ST and G and A left long ago.

[Rocky Raab]

That's funny, 44man. Of course, there are more people who have tried to do it that way than there are trees in the forest.

It is partly true, however, that almost anyone can be a one-article wonder. Any writer who has done a few dozen is surely pleasing somebody. Maybe it's only the editor, but it ought to not be a secret that the editor is the first one you HAVE to please!

One last point and I'll give this a rest. Subscriptions and newsstand sales don't pay for magazines. The total revenue from those sources is only a few percent of the cost to publish. If it weren't for the ads, there would either be no magazine at all or you'd be paying $100 a copy. However little you find of interest in an issue, thank the advertisers for making that little bit available.

[Dale53]

Well, I have been subscribing to and reading magazines for sixty years. If the issue is good (as have been recent issues of Handloader) I thoroughly enjoy them. John Taffin is a great read (his recent book on the .44 is downright WONDERFUL), Mike Venturino often has good stuff (although, I don't have much interest in military firearms - got mine first hand "back in the day"), and Brian Pearce is always a good read.

I started bullet casting and reloading when a teenager and have loaded tens of thousands of cartridges. I still have the capacity to learn.

One thing that the "Old Timers" don't seem to understand, is that there are new shooters born everyday (alas, much fewer than in the past) and THEY need to hear the same old things again. An editor is continually walking a tightrope between something old and something new. They do have to please the advertisers because THOSE people are the ones paying for the magazine.

I, in the last couple of years, have been subscribing to online magazines (or magazines online). I can get Handloader, Rifle, and Successful Hunter (not much here for me) for the same price as one magazine and I don't have to have storage area for them (hard drive space is inexpensive).

We have some really good writers, just not as many as there used to be.

The American Rifleman (that used to be the epitome of a gun magazine) "Ain't worth the paper it's written on". I support the NRA but am not at all interested in that magazine (a shadow of it's former self). Guns & Ammo are pathetic as is Guns.

FWIW
Dale53

[Jbar4Ranch]

Many years ago, I worked at a lead smelter for a couple decades, and there was one guy who was very adamant that using our lead would "shoot the riflings right out of your barrel". :veryconfu
I'm still using it up and don't have any smooth bore handguns or rifles yet.

[BLTsandwedge]

[QUOTE=Rocky Raab;665406]
"......One last point and I'll give this a rest. Subscriptions and newsstand sales don't pay for magazines. The total revenue from those sources is only a few percent of the cost to publish. If it weren't for the ads, there would either be no magazine at all or you'd be paying $100 a copy. However little you find of interest in an issue, thank the advertisers for making that little bit available."

You know the business, Rocky. I've been buying advertising for the last 20 years- the bottom has fallen out of the newspaper and magazine business because of the dearth of advertisers for those media. The mantra on the street is to stay away from print and go internet- i.e. 80% of what I do anymore is to attract traffic to our website. That's done via adword campaigns through the major search engines (and yes, I'll admit it- some banner ads) but every piece I produce encourages internet sales. Its the way things are now- and that's why Google closed at $488 a share today.

As a result, the prices for internet advertising are moving north; the prices for print are as low as I've seen. Even TV is dirt cheap- I put together a two network campaign this year for 1/3 of what I'd have spent in 2007. Good for me, but a bitch for everyone reliant on advertising sales.

Now I'm gonna go cast a pile of 401638s and maybe a few 421429s.......with lead that'll ruin barrels and cause crotch rot, tooth decay and flatulence at the same time........

[powderburnerr]

wheelweights will ruin barrels , they are dirty and have metal clips on them. they are also of a shape that is not conducive to accuracy, they will ruin a barrel fast .

I do not shoot raw wheelweights in any of my guns. I melt the crud off and form them into more managable shapesthat are not harmful to my firearms....Dean

[qajaq59]

I do not shoot raw wheelweights in any of my guns. I melt the crud off and form them into more managable shapesthat are not harmful to my firearms....Dean Aaaaah, anybody can do it THAT way. lol

[TCLouis]

As you all rant and rave over the gunzines, go find a current "American Rifleman", then find one from the 60s and earlier.

I'll let you draw whatever conclusion you may.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

To distill it down to the basics: firing your rifle is what ruins barrels. Almost every unfired rifle barrel I have seen looked pretty good...

Rich

[44man]

Some of you do not see the big picture. Long ago articles aided a new shooter. You could learn a lot. You could learn to bed a rifle, tune a trigger, work loads and a million other important things to become a better shooter.
Things have changed and black rifles, factory loads, CCW's, and $20.000 guns dominate.
Now look at Mike the "Duke" and all you see are articles about mass amounts of loading, casting and shooting yet not a single technical thing to make a gun super accurate. Groups shown can be shot with a shotgun. Lay out 10 guns and show a bunch of boolits but no workups for each boolit or that one shoots better, no load changes or any information that will help an owner of one of the same guns.
GO BANG STUFF ONLY. Sorry, he writes stuff that is fun to read but you will learn nothing from any of it. It is nothing more then another deer hunting story.

[wills]

I do not shoot raw wheelweights in any of my guns. I melt the crud off and form them into more managable shapesthat are not harmful to my firearms....Dean

Not only that; usually they aren’t very straight and that makes them hard to chamber!

[StarMetal]

The only thing ww's have worn is my wallet! :castmine:

Joe

[PineTreeGreen]

Somewhere along the line,people have misconscrewed the facts

[Mike Venturino]

Bret4207: I refer you to the next issue of Handloader. There will be an article in it titled Cast Bullet Mythbusting. The hard bullet issue is discussed.

And for everybody. I work for RIFLE & HANDLOADER and GUNS & THE AMERICAN HANDGUNNER. The editors and editorial directors give absolutely no direction as to what I will write. They don't even know what I'm going to send it until it gets there, with a very few exceptions that we have discussed. As for my interests, I follow my nose. If you don't like them, that's ok. I've still done them as honestly as I can.

And especially to .44 Man. You have the worst case of head up butt of anyone I've ever read on the internet. You once said you prided yourself on being stubborn. There is another word that starts with the same three letters and I think you have the two confused. I backed you down once before on this website for trashing my integrity and you apologized. Now watch yourself when talking about me.

To everyone else. Good to talk to you again. I've been absent for many months due to work projects and the bpcr silhouette competition season.
Mike Venturino

[Ugluk]

Not only that; usually they aren’t very straight and that makes them hard to chamber!

That's the easy part.. What makes me break a sweat is getting the clip through the sizer..:mrgreen:

[frank505]

Thank you Mike;
I really appreciate your writing of late. The WW II guns stuff is excellent and informative for us fans of real rifles and pistols.

Regards Frank

[longhorn47]

You should not shoot WW in any gun it will ruin your gun that is for sure so I will do my part just send me all of your ww and I will take care of it in a safe maner your friend from Kalifornia

[44man]

Bret4207: I refer you to the next issue of Handloader. There will be an article in it titled Cast Bullet Mythbusting. The hard bullet issue is discussed.

And for everybody. I work for RIFLE & HANDLOADER and GUNS & THE AMERICAN HANDGUNNER. The editors and editorial directors give absolutely no direction as to what I will write. They don't even know what I'm going to send it until it gets there, with a very few exceptions that we have discussed. As for my interests, I follow my nose. If you don't like them, that's ok. I've still done them as honestly as I can.

And especially to .44 Man. You have the worst case of head up butt of anyone I've ever read on the internet. You once said you prided yourself on being stubborn. There is another word that starts with the same three letters and I think you have the two confused. I backed you down once before on this website for trashing my integrity and you apologized. Now watch yourself when talking about me.

To everyone else. Good to talk to you again. I've been absent for many months due to work projects and the bpcr silhouette competition season.
Mike Venturino
Am I wrong? I have no head up butt, I know how to make revolvers shoot and share with everyone. So far you have done nothing but drug up thousands of guns none of us can ever think of owning and show shotgun patterns from all of them. Accuracy is my game and one revolver that can shoot under 1" at 100 yards means more then 200 that shoot shotgun patterns at 25 yards.
Yes I am stubborn but my results have many guys PMing me for help. Some are shooting fantastic groups.
I know you hate me but when I can take a revolver and knock over a ram at 500 meters, I laugh at your 25 yard groups.
It is time you admit just how many guns you own and how many you can make shoot like they should.
When are you going to take one gun and wring it out so the guy that has one can get the best from it?
Your articles only show many guns and boolits but nothing but noise making. It does nobody any good to see trays of boolits and a bench full of tools most of us can't afford yet not a single group worth putting in a magazine.
No, I will not kiss your butt. I AM better and shoot revolver groups you can only dream of. WHY, because I can only afford a few guns so I make them work. Owning a few thousand guns means none of them are worked up----make noise, sell advertisers.
[edit]
Mike, you show nothing with every issue other then with how many guns you have, how many boolits you cast, how much equipment you own, and how cute your shirts and hats are.
Put your money up front and teach revolver shooters to shoot under 1" groups at 100 yards! :bigsmyl2:

[Leadforbrains]

Mike writes some very interesting articles.

I like Mike.

[Mike Venturino]

.44 Man: Stubborn is curable. Stupid is for life and you have a bad case of it.

I own about 150 guns, not that its any of your business and I think the shooting you do is on the Internet or in your own mind..

What I think you do have is a bad case of jealously for someone who you think has it better than you.

That's enough. I won't subject these nice folks on this website to our fighting. We both know what you are and why you say the things you say.

[45nut]

44man,, that was not in keeping with the spirit of the site.

If you plan any more personal attacks go ahead and direct them to me via pm, calling out anyone on the board is low brow conduct.

[ammohead]

Mike,

I have been frequenting this fine bunch of misfits since the old "shooter" days back around 1998. There have always been one or two yahoos that love to piss in peoples wheatys. Thanks for adding some legitimacy to our group and don't let the turkeys get you down. Now I'll catch hell for implying that we weren't legitimate till you got here bla bla bla.

Now if we could get you to show up at the NCBS (Nevada Cast Boolit Shoot) in Winnemucca next year?

ammohead

[9.3X62AL]

Ditto to Mike V. coming to NCBS 2010.

Thanks for clearing up the editor/writer relationship under which you work, sir. THAT sounds like a pretty cool gig to me!

[StarMetal]

Mike Venturio....I believe you grew up in W.Va. correct? If so how far south of Pittsburgh, Pa. were you.

Joe

[Mike Venturino]

ammohead & 9.3: Thanks. I appreciate your kind comments. Not everyone it seems is so concerned about what someone else can "afford."

When is that shoot in Nevada? What's the course of fire? I don't think Winnemeucca is all that far from here.

Mike

[Mike Venturino]

Starmetal: I was born and raised in Mingo Country West Virginia. That's about as far from Pittsburg you can be and still be in West Virginia. My home town of Williamson has the Tug River running through the middle of it. The south side is Kentucky and the north side is WV.

I attended Marshall U. there in Huntington from '68 to '72 and then moved "west" for good.

Mike

PS: My "gig" is indeed cool but I must stress that it took about 25 years and well over 1000 printed articles before I reached that point back in 2004.

[rugerman1]

Ignore the idiots,Mike.Keep posting when you can.

[No_1]

Mike,

I too enjoy your articles as they are always a good read. Keep up the good work and congratulations on getting paid for something that is so fun.

Don't mind the "haters". Everyone of us has at least 1 or 2 waiting in the wings to pounce on us when our head is turned.

R.

[StarMetal]

Mike,

I took a liking to your articles not only because they were good, but because we share an interest in similar firearms and you're from my neck of the woods and about the same age I say too. You're responsible for getting my first 45-70 and also first Colt SAA in 45 Colt.

Keep up the good work.

Joe

[Heavy lead]

Mike V.
Thanks for showing up here. Sorry for the rudeness put upon you. I for one enjoy your writings very much so, as do many others here. You, Brian Pearce, and Dave Scovill and Handloader are the sole reason I started casting and thank you for your fine writings on such endevours.
Please don't let a couple of sour apples keep you from checking in from time to time.
Best wishes,
Steve C.

[cuzinbruce]

Hi Mike,
Nice to see you on here. Sorry about any unpleasantness. I have rather enjoyed many of your articles in Handloader. One of the few magazines I buy on a regular basis.
Bruce

[Leadforbrains]

Mikes articles is one of the reasons I look forward to getting my Handloader Magazine every month. I really Like it that Mike comes to this site and I hope he will keep coming back.

[Rockydog]

Handloader and Rifle are the only two magazines I buy. Last months articles about the 400 yard 44 magnum deer kill, another on bullet hardness, and Mike's article on WW II handguns were classics. Can you get the same info off the net? Maybe if you spent the next two years researching some of this stuff. Plus, you have the pleasure of reading well constructed sentences containing complete, concise thoughts, punctuated in a manner that makes for great reading. I was educated the old way with teachers that thought a Board of Education was a paddle carved specifically to fit my behind. Reading some of what masquerades as grammar and rational thought, while researching facts on the internet, gets very old. Thanks Mike, for supplying good info that reads well. Rockydog

[xringshutr]

I normally don't jump in on threads that turn into nonsense , but this one interested me. I think one thing 44Man fails to realize is that there might be a few new shooters (hopefully thousands) out there that may not have seen the "good articles" from waaaaaaay back in the good old days. There are people interested in shooting from all living generations and all walks of life. Where, besides the internet, are they going to get any good info on the classic calibers or guns? Are we so short sighted to not recognize that some of this stuff needs repeated to carry on the information to present and future shooters. Some of the info is garbage, I admit that. But it is the fast paced, gotta have it now, world we live in. Something has to pay for that paper and ink and most importantly the good writers. I subscribe to very few magazines, but Handloader and Rifle are still good ones. Precision Shooting is another excellent publication.

IMHO, who cares if you can shoot a flea off a dog's back at 500 paces. Pass on what you know to junior shooters (plural). If not, our sport and hobby will be taken from us.

I have been shooting for 28 yrs of my 37 yrs and still have much more to learn than what I know. Some need to think about that phrase too.

Thanks for listening to my rant. :drinks: to all of you.

[runfiverun]

jim does share what he does.
he will flat out tell his recipe for success,heck i could tell you his recipe. it's exactly the opposite of mine......kinda,sorta.
i like mikes writing style as much as anybodys.
i think james's point is he wants to see some substance, i am tired of seeing ar and 1911 articles too.
maybe a year with a gun type thing.
thats about how long it takes me to fully wring out a rifle and it's done at 40-50 shots at a time.
iff i want a 9mm load i have about 15 manuals for that.
my opinion is all...

[Frank]

The only time I look at a gun rag is when I'm stuck somewhere and a newsrack is handy. But then there's only a 2% chance that any are going to have THE gun that I'm interested in.

One time I was lucky. There smack in the middle of it was a feature article on a gun that I just ordered! I was tickled and said to myself, "I'm going to buy this magazine." But my instincts told me to go thru the article first and see if there was anything in it on that gun that I didn't already know about. Sure, there was a great pic, but I can get that on the internet. So why pay $4.95?

So I went thru the article quickly. And you know what? My instincts were right. That one time I found an article about MY gun it did not have ANY info that I didn't know about already. And the rest of it was just a bunch of advertising fluff and tons of equipment and bullets.

But there is one added reason now that I do like to look at a gun rag. I like to see the lousy shooting they are doing because I know now I'm doing better, thanks to one man - 44man, who has helped me with this hobby and is by the way, a VERY INTELLIGENT and CONSIDERATE individual who shares information with others, not just disseminates it and then expects praise. And nobody pays me to say this and I know there are many others on other boards who share this view.

[ammohead]

Mike,

The 11th annual Nevada Cast Boolit Shoot will be held within a week or two of the weekend before Memorial weekend. The first shoot was held near Topaz Lake south of Reno NV in April 2000. I was the founder of the event. Since that first effort BruceB and family have been the gracious hosts at Winnemucca at a bit warmer time of year. The lack of a nailed down date as of yet is because of BruceB's employment at the nearby gold mine. He has to wait for next years work schedule. But it will be in that time frame. As it gets close 45nut will provide us a sticky or thread to follow info.

It is a very informal affair. Mostly a gathering of cast boolit nuts (25-35 people families encouraged) having a great time shooting eating and gabbing. There are awards for 100 yard scoped rifle group from bench, and score offhand. The same for iron sighted rifle at 50 yds and pistol at 25. We also have a 400 yard best of five shots at a gong offhand. No entry fee, no sanctions, and no whining! Just a good time had by all.

So consider yourself formally invited, as is everyone on this board. See you in Winnemucca!

[Junior1942]

I have never owned a WW ll machine gun or a 458 Winchester magnum, and I have no desire to own either. BUT I have never read an article by either Mike Venturino or Phil Shoemaker that I didn't like.

[44man]

I admit to reading all of Mike's articles too, but it is only entertainment, like watching TV or one of the hunting shows.
I have nothing against the man, he is OK.
I just wish he would get more technical, get down to the nitty-gritty for each gun.
Put back in Handloader what the magazine used to have. I have ALL of the issues and can go back to find information but for quite a few years now, there is a total lack of it. Mike is in a position to change things and get the respect I gave Ken Waters and many others.
But as long as he just entertains, Handloader is just another rag.
The rag used to teach and test, no longer, nothing but stories and ads.
Please guys and you too Mike, find me a beginner that learned to load and find accuracy from Handloader in the last bunch of years.

[44mag1]

Wheel weights have ruined my life, Im always looking for more. I just hope I dont start turning tricks to get more. Who cares what they do to my barrel.
As far as the pissing match goes, start your own magazine if the ones your reading arent stimulating your mind.

[qajaq59]

IMO If the readership is rising, then the magazine is doing it right. If it's heading down, then they're not. Which is it?

[44man]

.44 Man: Stubborn is curable. Stupid is for life and you have a bad case of it.

I own about 150 guns, not that its any of your business and I think the shooting you do is on the Internet or in your own mind..

What I think you do have is a bad case of jealously for someone who you think has it better than you.

That's enough. I won't subject these nice folks on this website to our fighting. We both know what you are and why you say the things you say.
I just went back and found this and had to laugh. Jealous? No, I have never felt that way about anyone. You see, I can do anything. Been a part time gunsmith most of my life, fixed TV's and radio, worked for UAL 42 years, drove truck and all kinds of heavy equipment including tractor trailer, build furniture, can build a footer and lay block, build a house, roof, plumb and wire, I don't think there is a thing I can't do except air conditioning because I do not have the tools. I make my own boolit molds and anything else I need.
My life has been spent helping people and saving them money. I give freely to anyone and have thousands of friends. No Mike, my life has been great. Never got rich but satisfaction for helping a friend is what life is about. I cherish every single friend I have.
I never lie about anything, no sense at all in it.
You think my shooting is a dream! Who cares? Maybe it is you who is jealous!
I work at what I do.
As I said before, if we lived close we would be friends because that is the way I am. But do not expect me to agree with everything you say or do. You are only a man, no better or worse then anyone else.
Do I feel superior because I can do something that you can't do? NO, I will teach you. I expect the same from you or anyone else.
For all of you sucking up to Mike, fame does not rub off! Make your own way in life. I sit here at this stupid machine and grin at your remarks. Be your own man for once!

[mauser1959]

I started reading this thread, and at first it was a delight. However it soon turned into an infantile braying of someone who seems to have pen envy because he could not get published. Envy of the pen is a bad , a very bad, thing to have. I know neither of the two "gentlemen" in this torrent, but find nothing instructive about trying to tear down another persons profession. It might be true that the one poster can shoot the scab off a a dog pecker gnat at a 1000 yards, I do not know , nor have no way of knowing that. What seems to be the central beef is that one of the two "gentlemen" gets published and the other "gentlemen" in question has never been able to get an article published.

So someone does not like the way that someone else writes, then as the old saying goes about TV, turn the damn channel. I know neither of the two in question , have never read any article by the one... or for that matter the other. It does not matter to me that a editor likes how one man writes and not the other. However what does matter to me is this insipid childish bickering... this is not about trying to get a trophy or even a girl... we are all about shooting and cast boolits in particular; as we used to tell the kids , all of you go to your damn room till you can act like adults.

Now back to the fact that WWs do not make good boolits, I know this is true or wal mart would have been selling them to us for a long time and that is not the case... of course WWs are not made in china, so maybe that is the reason.

Christ people, grow the eff up.

[jim4065]

Handloader and Rifle are the only two magazines I buy. Last months articles about the 400 yard 44 magnum deer kill, another on bullet hardness, and Mike's article on WW II handguns were classics. Can you get the same info off the net? Maybe if you spent the next two years researching some of this stuff. Plus, you have the pleasure of reading well constructed sentences containing complete, concise thoughts, punctuated in a manner that makes for great reading. I was educated the old way with teachers that thought a Board of Education was a paddle carved specifically to fit my behind. Reading some of what masquerades as grammar and rational thought, while researching facts on the internet, gets very old. Thanks Mike, for supplying good info that reads well. Rockydog

A very good point - most posters never take the time to re-read what they've typed. Unfortunately, most magazines and books have deficiencies also.

[44man]

44man,, that was not in keeping with the spirit of the site.

If you plan any more personal attacks go ahead and direct them to me via pm, calling out anyone on the board is low brow conduct.
You take me wrong, it is not against Mike but the substance of articles to which editors are as much to blame. I have nothing against him but he cusses at me for saying what he writes does not inform.
If I buy, say Whitetail magazine, I expect hunting stories. A fishing book will have fish stories but Handloader is NOT for shooting stories. I do not want to see his outfit or his bench or a pile of guns. I do NOT want to see a pile of boolits he shoots in each gun. What I want to see is how he can make each gun shoot it's best, even if it takes many issues. I do NOT want to see him pushing products, only truth and information but if a product works, fine.
Just read the posts to see how many of us think the same about the rags out there. One has the most beautiful pictures ever taken of guns but nothing worth reading about them. The next is nothing but black rifles and carry guns, all shot with factory loads.
I was told to do a lot of stuff I did not agree with when I worked for the airline. I would NOT do it if it was wrong or unsafe and guess what? When the plane left I felt it and the passengers were safe because I loaded it right. The worst thing we were told was to close up the plane for an ontime before all the luggage was on. I was ashamed to look up in the windows I felt so bad for the people.
Now we no longer have men that stand up to principals but buckle under. Yeah, I had to do it to or I would have been called in the office, maybe fired, but NEVER over a safety issue.
But Mike is capable of more with his stories then a few pictures and can bring Handloader back to what it's name suggests. Will I keep thumping on him---YES! He knows enough from this site to make Handloader- Handloader again.
Sorry Mike, I consider you a decent person but I will not suck up.

[AlaskaMike]

44man, it's unfortunate that you think anyone who appreciates Mike's writing is a suck-up. That reflects more on you than anyone else. I think what you fail to understand is that you simply have different interests than what Mike's writing about.

You seem, from the posts of yours I've read to have done quite a bit in your life. In all that time and in all those experiences, have you not noticed that when you want someone to do something the LEAST effective way to do so is to [edit] them off? If you want Mike to write about something that interests you, then what's the problem with asking him politely? Ridiculing him simply because he doesn't write what you want him to doesn't really seem right, does it?

44man, the vast majority of your posts have caused me to have a great amount of respect for you as a bullet caster and handloader. Your posts in this thread are not nearly in the same class as your others.

Mike

[44man]

44man, it's unfortunate that you think anyone who appreciates Mike's writing is a suck-up. That reflects more on you than anyone else. I think what you fail to understand is that you simply have different interests than what Mike's writing about.

You seem, from the posts of yours I've read to have done quite a bit in your life. In all that time and in all those experiences, have you not noticed that when you want someone to do something the LEAST effective way to do so is to [edit] them off? If you want Mike to write about something that interests you, then what's the problem with asking him politely? Ridiculing him simply because he doesn't write what you want him to doesn't really seem right, does it?

44man, the vast majority of your posts have caused me to have a great amount of respect for you as a bullet caster and handloader. Your posts in this thread are not nearly in the same class as your others.

Mike
You don't see what I mean at all. Mike writes for other magazines and he is true to form in them. I enjoy reading what he says. But he is not true to form in Handloader. THAT is where I bounce on him.
He reads these posts too but have you ever seen him answer any questions or offer expertise? I will get on him for that too. He only responds when I say he is not doing enough in the rags.
Yes I will antagonize him because he is doing no better then most writers, just filling space.
Is it his fault? You did not read what I said at all about having to do things I did not like to keep my job. Maybe he has to do what he does not like.
I do NOT want to [edit] him off, I want to make him reflect and inspire him to write to teach new guys in the rags that were started for that reason. I do not care if he repeats my methods word for word and I don't think anyone else here is worried about being repeated or you would not share information.
Now will he go on to the very technical aspects of BR or advanced loading? Will he show what boolit to use and how to get a 6.5 Swede to shoot 1/2" at 100? How about any other gun some of you own?
Seems to me 50% of you agree with me and 50% think I am being an ass.
Now if you go back to the very first article Mike ever wrote to the present, list what you have learned and then tell Mike what else you want to know.
I think he is capable and he is also capable of joining in right here with discussions.

[waksupi]

I've never known Mike to tell us he puts 10 grains of lube on a bullet, then insist he is right!

[No_1]

44man,
Your writings of personal gun/casting/loading experiences have inspired many of us to try things we had not thought of. Your style of "inspiring" Mike to write of things that would make the gun rags better is not so inspiring. You say you were not trying to [:takinWiz:] him off but until you indicated your grand plan of inspiration it sure appeared that your intentions were exactly that. :confused:

Robert


I do NOT want to [edit] him off, I want to make him reflect and inspire him to write to teach new guys in the rags that were started for that reason.

[jim4065]

You don't see what I mean at all. Mike writes for other magazines and he is true to form in them. I enjoy reading what he says. But he is not true to form in Handloader. ............

It seems to me that your beef should be with Handloader - not Venturino. He is being true to form ....to himself. He's writing what he wants and the way he wants. What else would have him do? I haven't read many of his articles, but mostly because I don't like Gun Mags. (They seem too eager to please the wrong people.)

You seem to want him to revolt against "the establishment" for some reason. Your battle isn't his - why expect him to do what you want? As someone else said - just take your business elsewhere. I'm another who has greatly enjoyed reading your comments; why denigrate your own reputation by squabbling with someone here? Let it drop - life's too short.

[Bret4207]

Bret4207: I refer you to the next issue of Handloader. There will be an article in it titled Cast Bullet Mythbusting. The hard bullet issue is discussed.

And for everybody. I work for RIFLE & HANDLOADER and GUNS & THE AMERICAN HANDGUNNER. The editors and editorial directors give absolutely no direction as to what I will write. They don't even know what I'm going to send it until it gets there, with a very few exceptions that we have discussed. As for my interests, I follow my nose. If you don't like them, that's ok. I've still done them as honestly as I can.

And especially to .44 Man. You have the worst case of head up butt of anyone I've ever read on the internet. You once said you prided yourself on being stubborn. There is another word that starts with the same three letters and I think you have the two confused. I backed you down once before on this website for trashing my integrity and you apologized. Now watch yourself when talking about me.

To everyone else. Good to talk to you again. I've been absent for many months due to work projects and the bpcr silhouette competition season.
Mike Venturino

That's good Mike. Maybe you can find a way to get people thinking instead of just going through the motions.

I sort of have a question Mike. I started reading Handloader back in the days of Dave Wolfe and Ken Howell. I remember when Jim Carmichael, Scoville, even Rick Jamison were just freelancers. Now, I don't want to get you in trouble, but is Scoville as miserable as he seems? Last issue of Handloader he spent 4 pages complaining about people writing in to HIM with QUESTIONS ABOUT GUNS!!!!!! Meanwhile, in my collection there's a book by Ken Waters that's nothing BUT questions sent to him by readers, published by Wolfe. I don;t know Scoville, but I do know he used to do some good writing. The man knows, or knew, his stuff. Is it possible some people just aren't meant to be Editors? For a while both Rifle and Handoader were nothing but lever actions and single actions. At least we've gotten away from that. But, and I don;t mean to put you on the spot, is this guy for real? Does he have any interest in seeing Handloader regain the status is once had?

I won't get all nasty with you like some here. Ken Howell told me you were a fine man and a real guy, not completely wrapped up in yourself like some. I don't think you always write what I want to read, but no one except Ken Waters ever did. I also have a hard time with the "Duke" thing, because you were always "Mikey" to me. Sorry, I still think of you being about 27 or 8.

Maybe we all expect more of gun writers as we get older and more experienced. Even Elmer got to repeating himself in his later years. There is only one Ken Waters, Bob Milek, Dean Grenell, John Wooters or Phil Sharpe in a generation. I suppose we're waiting for the next one to come along.

[ChuckS1]

This thread has been pretty interesting, particularly about writers and the impact of negative or adverse content about advertisers' products. Being the cynic I am, I was wondering if Rick Jamison's lawsuit with Winchester over his short magnum cartridge had anything to do with him not being published anymore. As I understand it, he was pretty much run out of town by the industry after suing Winchester. I'm sure that resonated throughout the gun writer community. Maybe that's why we don't see more critical reviews of products?