How to salvage my too-soft .38 wadcutters

[ghh3rd]

I cast about a thousand .38 wadcutters with 50/50 Clip-on/Stick-ons, and then discovered that I have a leading problem with them. I'm using Lee Alox tumble lube.

I wondered if heating them up in an oven and then water cooling them would help prevent leading. I'm just using them for low power loads (2.7 gr Bullseye).

Thanks,

Randy

[Wally]

I onece made up a batch of WC vast from pure lead---I was amazed that they were accurate and did not lead up my barrel in the .44 Special caliber. The only disadvantage to using them is one must cast at a higher temperature than with WW metal.

[zxcvbob]

First I would try *increasing* the powder a little.

[Tim357]

First I would try *increasing* the powder a little.

What he said... Mebbe your boolits need to slug up a tad.
Tim sends

[captain-03]

To answer your question - you should be able to harden them by heat treating 'em. I put them in the oven at 475 for about 30 minutes and then "quickly" quence them in cool water.

[jhrosier]

Randy,

I had about 800 .44 boolits that came out too soft recently.
I 'salvaged' them by finding a nice light target load for them that shot very well and didn't lead the barrel at all.

Jack

[grumpy one]

The most accurate 38 Special projectiles I've ever used were swaged hollow-base pure-lead wadcutters in front of 2.4 grains of Norma R1. This conclusion was shared by every member of my former target-shooting club, as far as I know. Most members never cleaned their barrels over multiple years of shooting every Saturday. I used to dry-brush mine occasionally, but never saw any lead come out.

If you are getting leading with 38 wadcutters while using a normal powder-charge, I'd suggest you look at whether your bullets are undersized, or you have a forcing cone, cylinder-to-barrel alignment, front of cylinder bore size, or variation in bore size along the barrel, issue. Dead-soft hollow-base bullets are forgiving of most of these but solid-base bullets are not - especially if they are rather hard, as yours already are. You are unlikely to get your present alloy to obturate at moderate 38 Special pressures.

[lylejb]

First, I don't think your boolits are too soft.

Before i began casting, I had the same leading problem with light loads, with a 158 swc commercial cast. This bullet tests at BHN 18, about twice as hard as i think your would be.

In my case, i raised the powder charge, and went to a faster powder. This ended the leading.

In your case, you're already using a fast powder, so increase the powder charge. I think that will help.

[RayinNH]

I would look very closely at their size. Most wadcutter are soft...Ray

[Shiloh]

What does your bore slug at?? Chambers??

Sounds almost like a undersize problem.
I have fired range and other very soft lead acquired from various sources at 825+ fps
with no leading whatsoever. I've also fired them, wad-cutters, as slow as sub 700 with no problems. 2.7-3.0 Bullseye gives great accuracy.

Shiloh

[HeavyMetal]

Think we needs a little more info.

Boolit mold your using and then current diameter of said castings before lube of course.

Pistol your firing them in and diameter of chamber mouths if it a wheel gun.

the alloy your using should be about right for the powder charge your using so something else is up here.

[Dale53]

I have had better results with solid base wadcutters when they are driven a bit faster than normal with hollow base wadcutters.

I am currently using an original H&G #251 six cavity bullet mould and seat it sprue up (that gives a PERFECT bullet base) and crimp on the TRAILING edge of the first band. Almost all of the first band is outside the case to help true up the bullet in the throat. The powder charge is 3.5 grs of Bullseye. I recently shot this at 25 yards, standing:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/img032.jpg

Why did I only shoot five shots? Because I KNEW I would screw it up[smilie=l: At any rate, this load shoots well under 1" at 25 yards off a rest and the recoil is light. Try this and let us know what happens.

Dale53

[Nora]

I'd also go with a little more oomph. Assuming the barrel is fine and the lube is good, leading is caused by one of two things. 1) to much speed and the boolit it being pushed threw the rifling rather than engaging it and spinning at the rate of twist it was cut to. 2) not enough power to get the the boolit to obdurate and the gassed will pass around the boolit and act like a cutting torch, smearing the melted lead into the rifling. This could be due to any number of things from being to hard (yours is not), to small for the bore (maybe) or just not enough kick in the butt (another maybe). Either way, slug the bore just to be sure. But I'll bet you've just got to light of a charge. Pre casting days I liked to use Speer's 148gr BB-WC which was plenty soft. The listed charges for it (Speer #13) with Bullseye are between 3.9 - 4.5gr showing best accuracy in my Taurus with 4.2 gr


Nora

[Bret4207]

I'd also go with a little more oomph. Assuming the barrel is fine and the lube is good, leading is caused by one of two things. 1) to much speed and the boolit it being pushed threw the rifling rather than engaging it and spinning at the rate of twist it was cut to. 2) not enough power to get the the boolit to obdurate and the gassed will pass around the boolit and act like a cutting torch, smearing the melted lead into the rifling. This could be due to any number of things from being to hard (yours is not), to small for the bore (maybe) or just not enough kick in the butt (another maybe). Either way, slug the bore just to be sure. But I'll bet you've just got to light of a charge. Pre casting days I liked to use Speer's 148gr BB-WC which was plenty soft. The listed charges for it (Speer #13) with Bullseye are between 3.9 - 4.5gr showing best accuracy in my Taurus with 4.2 gr


Nora

Obturation is unneeded and unwanted if the boolit fits in the first place.

[cbrick]

Your boolits ARE NOT too soft, heat treating them WILL make your problem worse. Don't blame the alloy for something it didn't do.

This sounds very much like a boolit fit problem and not an alloy problem.

Assuming your shooting a revolver (you didn't give us much info) slug your throats and size your boolits to a mild snug fit in the throats. Next, slug the barrel for no other reason than to make sure your groove diameter is not larger than throat diameter, if it is you'll likely get barrel leading. If you size the boolits to fit the bore and the throats are smaller the throats will be perfect sizing dies and you'll be shooting boolits that are too small for the bore regardless of what you size them at. A SOFTER alloy and a bit higher pressure could possibly help in this situation, harder alloy and the low pressure of the 38 will compound the problem. The best solution to throats smaller than groove diameter is the CylinderSmith and have the throats reamed to match the larger groove diameter, "if" needed this isn't very expensive.

All of this assumes the revolver doesn't have a timing problem.

Rick

[MT Gianni]

Try a different gun if available. Hand wipe a good lube on one groove if the boolits fit and you don't have a lubrisizer.

[Nora]

Obturation is unneeded and unwanted if the boolit fits in the first place.

Agreed. Proper fit is always the goal.

My point was if the boolit was to small and didn't have enough kick to obturate it would cause leading. My thought for an increased powder charge was only directed at what to do with the existing stock pile of boolits the OP was contending with.

Nora

[Cannoneer]

I cast about a thousand .38 wadcutters with 50/50 Clip-on/Stick-ons, and then discovered that I have a leading problem with them. I'm using Lee Alox tumble lube.

I wondered if heating them up in an oven and then water cooling them would help prevent leading. I'm just using them for low power loads (2.7 gr Bullseye).

Thanks,

Randy


I'll trade you those 1000 wad cutters for 10 pounds of linotype. I can use the soft WC's for cores when I swage .45 jacketed bullets.

Drop me an e-mail at canoneer74@hotmail.com

[Dale53]

I had a shooting buddy that was getting some leading when lubing with Lee TL. I suggested he try some of Lars White Label Carnauba Red. He did and the leading went away COMPLETELY.

It's possible that a simple change of lube will solve the problem as Mt Gianni has suggested. It sure would be easy to try...

Dale53

[243winxb]

The bullet diameter does not match the barrel groove diameter.

[badgeredd]

I've been shooting 50/50 alloy with a plain base boolit (Lyman 358429) out of my 38s and haven't seen any signs of leading. I am loading them to near top end load for the cartridge/gun. I agree that your alloy or its hardness are not likely to be the problem. Personally. I think lube and/or fit will be found to be the culprit.

Edd