50/50

[686]

thoughts on 50/50 ww/soft lead. this is for a 45-70 360 gr fb bullet. i would water drop. maybe be 2000fps or less. would be for hunting. i am now casting a hard bullet and wondered how 50/50 would be and if it would expand. this is for my tc rifle. will softer lead need to be casted hotter or cooler. to get good fill out? thanks

[masscaster]

Hi 686,
You really only need to cut WW's about 35% to gain a good penetration to expansion rate.
If you can batch smelt 30 lbs try:
22 lbs WW's
6 lbs Pb
2 lbs 50/50
I usually use 80/20, or 60/40. Since your starting with WW's you won't need that high of a Tin content.
Soft Lead need to run hotter, and you'll be opening the srue cutter a bit quicker. Just like casting most alloy's timing as per temperature is the key. If your getting base holes slow down opening it an additional 2 count, and a bit slower if needed. A 695 - 720 degree melt should work well with the above alloy, and that boolit size. Cool down as needed.
Jeff @ Forefather's

[686]

i will tyr that . what is, cool down as needed ? how will this mix be with water drop?

[rusty marlin]

50/50 ww and lead.

tin............ 0.25%
antimony... 2.00%
arsenic..... 0.13%
lead.......... 97.63%


You arn't going to have enough tin for a clean pour or enough antimony to bother with water dropping. (somebody here will argue that, but my molds tell me diffently.)

Try 9#ww, 1# 50/50 lead/tin solder and 10 pounds Pb

this will yield
tin............ 2.73%
antimony.. 1.80%
arsenic..... 0.11%
lead.......... 95.36%

I use this mix in my 38-55 (249gr lee) and my 45-70 (Lyman 340 gr Gould), it casts wonderfully, and shoots great. I use Lars' BAC lube and have had the .45-70 up to around 1800fps with no leading.
Air cool.

[686]

rusty marlin , that is like lyman # 2 mixed with pb. 50/50 . how would that work wated droped?

[rusty marlin]

That is exactly what it is. I needed somthing softer than #2 that would expand with the HP gould. No idea what it will do with water drop. It met my requirments as is.

[Springfield]

I'm confused. Why would you want to cut your mix with pure lead to soften it and then water drop it to harden it again? Why not add something to harden it and then air drop, much easier. Probably more consistent also.

[Wayne Smith]

The Gould you should use 16-1 or less. That's the Sharp's formula, Remington used 20-1. At resonable velocities and decent lube this will not lead and will expand. You could cast this of pure and shoot it, but limit this to about 1000 fps and be ready for a little leading, depending on your bore.

[Zbench]

There is a poll in the group buy discussion area to get a group buy of lead going which seems like it would be perfect for your needs. There is a modified wheel weight formula which is 2% Tin, 4% Antimony and .25% Arsenic. Should be plenty hard without water dropping, but for those who want super hard alloy, the Arsenic should work nicely. If you haven't voted for your favorite mix, stop by the link below to cast your vote.

Next steps are to open an "official" group buy next week, get the alloy prepared in early October for shipment by mid month.

Hope some here find this useful.

Pete

[686]

i only ask about water drop because i have saw it listed both ways. i did not know if the water drop let you push it faster and still get good exp. with the soft lead in it.

[masscaster]

There's a good reason for water dropping hard cast projectiles other than hardening them off.
It's simple, ease of dropping them into something. no casting dents. I'd much prefer dropping them into a 5 gallon bucket of water compared to in a box, in a can, or on a bench, especially when running a 10 cavity mould.
The above mix of alloy is close to what my father and I used for 30 years for 45/50 & 50/70 Gov't boolits and never had any problems with them, including people who purchased them for their uses. There's no "not filled out" boolits with that alloy ever, provided your running the proper mould & lead temps.
As far as expansion goes, water dropping my above mentioned alloy provides a decent penetration to expansion rate, with the ability to shoot them at 1500 fps with a good powder & lube.
It's also possible to run straight WW's at $0.35 lb at those velocities without adding or mixing anything, ever, at all, but the expansion to fragmentation rate is different than adding Pb.
Forget Tin altogether, and it's still a perfect hunting alloy, with well defined boolits.
Jeff @ Forefather's

[kbstenberg]

Rusty have you used your alloy on Deer out of 30/30 an MAG. My loads are usually below Max. Accuracy is always better than foot pounds.
I am most concerned with mushrooming.
Most shots locally are under 50yards, standing or slow walk.

[rusty marlin]

Sorry, but I have no info for the .30-30.

The .38-55 is curently the smallet bullet I cast.

[Ole]

I use 50/50 and add 1.5-2% tin for fill out and water drop for all my casting.

I cast for .44 mag (1400fps), .450 Marlin (1250-1800fps), and SKS (1800-2000fps).

No leading, and no problems at all with this alloy. I like it better than casting with pure WW's because the bullets are less likely to crack if my molds get a little on the hot side.

I don't see water dropping as a PITA as all. My boolits usually drop 16-17BHN with this alloy/method.