PH Enfield dovetail sight adjustment

[Rusty Parker]

I just got back my 2-band Enfield with a new dovetail front sight. All previous guns I've used the rear sight "fill and file" method to adjust windage. Any recommendations for a sight adjustment tool that will work with this barrel? After twenty minutes of searching the web, I've found lots of tools for pistols but nothing that looks right for this gun. The dovetail is cut right into the barrel.

I'm off to the range to test and for now plan to tap with a brass punch and rubber mallet, but I'm suspecting I'll need something a bit more precise to dial the thing in. Any suggestions? much appreciated.

[59sharps]

Not that it important but who did it for you? If one of the N-SSA guys I would say
it should be soidered in place. you will need to heat it then tap it over. when it cools you should be set again.
Oh yea you may want to do the file and fill.

[Rusty Parker]

Larry Romano did it for me and left it unsoldered until I get it where I want it, I'll solder it then before I skirmish with it.

I shot it today and am still shooting right a couple of inches. I tried gently tapping it at the range but didn't want to bang too hard, I also didn't have a vise to clamp it. I'm hoping someone's got an idea here for a sight pusher that I can use at the range.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Use a small brass drift and a small hammer to tap with. Romano's work is of high repute. Tap it to get your sight regulated in windage , ONLY WITH A KNOWN STELLAR LOAD , then low temp solder one side. There you go ! Work up the load first, then set windage then set elevation by filing the front. BvT

[59sharps]

If the sight will be to far of center for your liking. You may want to fill in the rear sight w/ JB Weld te file a new notch. If you are thining a bout doing a peep sight you can get a blank slide (suggest you get two.) and drill were you need it or have Larry make you one.
I beleave S&S has them

[Rusty Parker]

I'm about 3-4 inches to the right at 50 yards, so I figure the sight's got to move approximately .042 to the right (sight to sight is 22 inches), which shouldn't be too bad. I was hoping there was a turn screw kind of tool, kinda like the pic below (for an 1891 Mosin Nagant rifle, on the web for 16 bucks!) but tapping it with a punch will work just as well. May take a few more rounds that way, though.

I've got a ways to go before I settle in on the perfect load, though. I've got groups I'm happy with so far with the Lyman 577611, but I'll probably go through the entire mold inventory before I start filing down the front sight for good. :smile:

[Baron von Trollwhack]

Just cut a little snippet of sticky address label to stick on your rear sight to serve as a repeatable shooting reference for trials. Don't worry about elevation till you have the windage satisfied. It may be that your windage notch already there can be acceptably widened to include the sticky mark and be satisfactory.

Windage is more critical the further you shoot, bullet trajectory less so. You may also wish to settle the bullet issue as different bullets frequently give different windage results. Best look to design and fit with shooting trials before you start metal work. People do shoot the 611 but other designs are more popular in N-SSA competition. They have a forum there which is highly specialized in musket lore.

BvT

[Rusty Parker]

Thanks so far for the advice and comments. Have had a couple of good days at the range--got the windage adjusted with the 575611 minie yesterday, 42.5 grains of 3f at 50 yards and 35 grains 3f at 100 yards, both lubed with pure Crisco.

Today I duplicated those results plus I tried the 575213 minie at 50 yards. Got the following groups with 35 grains 3f and Emmerts lube at 50 yards (had one flyer offhand, oops).

Ran out of time, next trip I'll shoot the 575213 minies at 100 yards.

Other bullets yet to try: I've got a 575213 old style coming, plus a Lee wadcutter that I haven't even cast yet.

I'd say the sight is just about ready to solder in place, I'm shooting on the third and fourth steps of the rear ladder, but won't be filing the front sight anytime soon just yet until I go through the rest of the bullets. A lot of guys like the Hodgen bullets as well, so I may try that later in the fall.

[59sharps]

?? why did you change loads from 50 to 100 yrd's 50 yrd load should work at 100 just push the sight up a notch or for now use the same sight setting as 50 and go for group only don't weary about impact point. once you get a load the works for both then play w. th sights all the way back for 50 file or add to the front site as needed. then push the sight foward on to the step for one hundred file the step if needed. I did not have to file mine. but i did scratch a line accross the ladder at the back of the side for a refrance point w/ an exacto knife.
I used streight crissco for 10 years then switched to beeswax/olive oil mix it holds up better on hot days. and will not harden if left to sit to long. Also the bullet I now use ids the RCBS hodgens. use to use the Lyman P-h stile minnie w/ 48 of 3ffg worked best for me. litter loads were not expending the base enough w/ a litter load I would get a flyer or a keyhole and all my lead was pure.
Fogot to ask are you going to Skirmish if so what team and will we be seeing you In VA for the Nationals

[Rusty Parker]

?? why did you change loads from 50 to 100 yrd's 50 yrd load should work at 100 just push the sight up a notch or for now use the same sight setting as 50 and go for group only don't weary about impact point. once you get a load the works for both then play w. th sights all the way back for 50 file or add to the front site as needed. then push the sight foward on to the step for one hundred file the step if needed. I did not have to file mine. but i did scratch a line accross the ladder at the back of the side for a refrance point w/ an exacto knife.

I was dead on at 50 with 42.5 grains--when I moved to 100 yards that was about eight inches high. So I dropped the powder charge to get it centered, I didn't want to mess with a low hold.

I think the reason the loads are so drastically different is because I'm using the 300 and 400 yard rear sights at the moment for 50 and 100 yard load development, primarily because I don't want to start filing the front sight just yet. plus I'm in a hurry to get the thing "on paper" to be competitive this season. Ideally I will get a load that works for both 50 and 100 with the first rung, but I'll have to file the front sight quite a bit to get there. But at the moment I don't mind loading a temporary "100 yard load" so long as I can keep the same sight picture from 50 to 100. (It's a new gun to me, I've only had it since July, plus I haven't shot NSSA in 15 years.)

I was also still working on tweaking the windage today--when I first moved to 100 yards, I had to tap the sight once or twice again to get it centered.

With luck I'll be in Virginia--I shot with the 4th Virg Infantry from 1983 through 1993. Family, kids, moves, etc. got in the way of shooting. This is my first season back.

[59sharps]

I was dead on at 50 with 42.5 grains--when I moved to 100 yards that was about eight inches high. So I dropped the powder charge to get it centered, I didn't want to mess with a low hold.

I think the reason the loads are so drastically different is because I'm using the 300 and 400 yard rear sights at the moment for 50 and 100 yard load development, primarily because I don't want to start filing the front sight just yet. plus I'm in a hurry to get the thing "on paper" to be competitive this season. Ideally I will get a load that works for both 50 and 100 with the first rung, but I'll have to file the front sight quite a bit to get there. But at the moment I don't mind loading a temporary "100 yard load" so long as I can keep the same sight picture from 50 to 100. (It's a new gun to me, I've only had it since July, plus I haven't shot NSSA in 15 years.)

I was also still working on tweaking the windage today--when I first moved to 100 yards, I had to tap the sight once or twice again to get it centered.

With luck I'll be in Virginia--I shot with the 4th Virg Infantry from 1983 through 1993. Family, kids, moves, etc. got in the way of shooting. This is my first season back.

Ok Tommies team NE region I started in 88 w/ the 14th VA. CAv. Are you going back to the 4th or another team?
On my 58 I crimped the slide a little so I was reall tight I could then side it up the ladder w/ out it haveing to sit right on on of the flates once I knew where it had to be as i said I marked the spot.
If you need the sight adjustment formula I have it.

[Rusty Parker]

I'm still with Tommy and the 4th Virg, but living in NY state I'm trying to get to know some of the people in the Northeast region. Easier to drive 1.5 hours than 6 hours to regional shoots. But will shoot with the 4th at nationals and closer to home shoots like Saratoga and Middletown although toying with Glastonbury this weekend if I can get the gun where I want it for now.

Off to the range for a bit more punishment, will keep you posted.

[59sharps]

I'm still with Tommy and the 4th Virg, but living in NY state I'm trying to get to know some of the people in the Northeast region. Easier to drive 1.5 hours than 6 hours to regional shoots. But will shoot with the 4th at nationals and closer to home shoots like Saratoga and Middletown although toying with Glastonbury this weekend if I can get the gun where I want it for now.

Off to the range for a bit more punishment, will keep you posted.

Great good luck
I went to springtown shoot this weekend. Its 90 min ride for me. Glastongury and Saratoga about 3 hrs Hopinton is about 4-5 hr did 1/2hr more I can got to the fort and shoot. So I skip hopinton. If there is a springtown the same weekend I do Springtown.
Spring town is out of my region but made a lot of friends there and never a problem finding a team to shoot with. What I also like there are more teams shooting. In our gerion you get 5-7 Carbine and about the same in musket less in Breechloader and Smoothbore Spring town get 20 teams in carbine musket and breechloader smoothbore about the same as my region.

[Rusty Parker]

Just back. Did as you suggested on the ladder sight and put the 100 yard mark at the halfway point between the third and fourth ramps. Came out perfect, I can shoot 35 grains at 50 yards now with a dead on hold and the same load at 100 yards with a 6 o'clock hold. 42 grains shot great at 50 but was off the paper at 100--when I get the sights filed down I'll try that load again.

Also had time to play with a loaner musketoon and got in the black at 50 and 100 yards with 42.5 gr 3f and the same 575213 minies. So I'm in good shape for starters.

Hear what you say about Hopkinton--it's closer to shoot at Winchester for me than Hopkinton. Pretty much the same for Chaplin and Glastonbury as well. Northeast region shoots also average more teams than New England.

[PAT303]

Mate you really don't want to bother with light minnies,PH don't like them.Down here we all shoot 600+ grn slugs out of ours.My rifle is like yours,I shoot 50grns of 3F at 50 but only 40 at 100,I don't change sight settings or hold. Pat

[Rusty Parker]

good point, Pat, but over the course of a weekend of competition, I might be shooting 200 to 300 rounds from musket, carbine, smoothbore, repeater, etc. etc., so whatever recoil reduction I can do helps. The PH musketoon this weekend was noticeably more "brutal" compared to the 2-bander, not that it was bad though. For hunting I'll work up a stiffer load for sure.

In competition a light minie would be something like the 405 grain Lyman 578675 bullet, the "blue grey" bullet. And if I'm not mistaken, someone makes a 58 cal 315 grain wadcutter. So "light minies" could be a matter of interpretation. ;-)

I think I'll be content to stop at the old style minie, which clocks in at 460 grains or thereabouts. Lots of guys like the RCBS hogden bullets, and those are around 412 grains.

me, I'm just trying to compete this weekend in the short run, then I'll spend the whole winter tweaking loads, bedding the stock, etc. etc.

[59sharps]

Do not see what dia you are shooting. If you want to try the hodges. I will bring some to Glastongury they weigh in about 436 or so. I have them sizes 576 and 580 right now. no unsized rounds my molds are 578 and 584.

[Rusty Parker]

hey, that would be great. I'm shooting .576 out of both guns. If you've got some to spare, it would be nice to try them. thanks!

[59sharps]

you got it I put a dozen in my box for you. the cantainer they were in is maked sized .577 you can try the 577 or i assume you have a 576 sizer or do you want me to resize them .576?

[PAT303]

good point, Pat, but over the course of a weekend of competition, I might be shooting 200 to 300 rounds from musket, carbine, smoothbore, repeater, etc. etc., so whatever recoil reduction I can do helps. The PH musketoon this weekend was noticeably more "brutal" compared to the 2-bander, not that it was bad though. For hunting I'll work up a stiffer load for sure.

In competition a light minie would be something like the 405 grain Lyman 578675 bullet, the "blue grey" bullet. And if I'm not mistaken, someone makes a 58 cal 315 grain wadcutter. So "light minies" could be a matter of interpretation. ;-)

I think I'll be content to stop at the old style minie, which clocks in at 460 grains or thereabouts. Lots of guys like the RCBS hogden bullets, and those are around 412 grains.

me, I'm just trying to compete this weekend in the short run, then I'll spend the whole winter tweaking loads, bedding the stock, etc. etc.

Sounds like fun,I wish I could join you.With PH's use minnies that have a good bearing surface,that is 3/4 of the boolit is bore dia,many people have tried the spitzer style minnies and found out they just don't work.I wish we had shoots down here that used 200-300 rounds,man thats going hard,what lube do you use?,I use as little as possible in my rifles,lard and olive oil and they shoot very consistantly,too much and I get flyers.Keep us informed. Pat

[59sharps]

Sounds like fun,I wish I could join you.With PH's use minnies that have a good bearing surface,that is 3/4 of the boolit is bore dia,many people have tried the spitzer style minnies and found out they just don't work.I wish we had shoots down here that used 200-300 rounds,man thats going hard,what lube do you use?,I use as little as possible in my rifles,lard and olive oil and they shoot very consistantly,too much and I get flyers.Keep us informed. Pat

i use 50/50 beeswax/ olive oil. for my minnies sized .002 under bore spring thru fall I do not shoot in the winter.
for my 44-40 henry a comerical lube.
for smoothbore I use a ball that is .005 under bore no patch. (not alowed in N-SSA) 20/80 beeswax/olive oil. ball dipped 4 times cooled between dipps

[Rusty Parker]

you got it I put a dozen in my box for you. the cantainer they were in is maked sized .577 you can try the 577 or i assume you have a 576 sizer or do you want me to resize them .576?

I've got a 576 sizer at home in the press, I can do it after the shoot. I really appreciate it.

[Rusty Parker]

Sounds like fun,I wish I could join you.With PH's use minnies that have a good bearing surface,that is 3/4 of the boolit is bore dia,many people have tried the spitzer style minnies and found out they just don't work.I wish we had shoots down here that used 200-300 rounds,man thats going hard,what lube do you use?,I use as little as possible in my rifles,lard and olive oil and they shoot very consistantly,too much and I get flyers.Keep us informed. Pat

lube right now is 40/50/10 beeswax/ Criso lard/ and canola oil. It has struck me as a bit too stiff for this time of the year, I added a half stick more of Crisco the other day and am planning on adding a bit more before this weekend's shoot.

I have noticed a difference in carbon buildup in breech between pure Crisco (no buildup whatsoever) and the beeswax mix (fair amount of carbon after 40-50 rounds at the range). Anyone else notice this as well? I always wondered about the guys who used pure Crisco at shoots, I'd see them applying the Crisco from a cake decorating bag before each and every event at a shoot. Originally I thought that would be really cumbersome, but if the reason they're doing it that way is to keep the breech cleaner, I can really understand that now.

[59sharps]

lube right now is 40/50/10 beeswax/ Criso lard/ and canola oil. It has struck me as a bit too stiff for this time of the year, I added a half stick more of Crisco the other day and am planning on adding a bit more before this weekend's shoot.

I have noticed a difference in carbon buildup in breech between pure Crisco (no buildup whatsoever) and the beeswax mix (fair amount of carbon after 40-50 rounds at the range). Anyone else notice this as well? I always wondered about the guys who used pure Crisco at shoots, I'd see them applying the Crisco from a cake decorating bag before each and every event at a shoot. Originally I thought that would be really cumbersome, but if the reason they're doing it that way is to keep the breech cleaner, I can really understand that now.

Several guys on our team still do it that way. I did it for the first 5 or 6 yrs of skirmishing. never a problem w/ it. Was given an inside outside luber by Northeast trader been using that ever since.
I have replaced the beeswax/ crisco w/ beeswax/olive oil. it will not go rancide nor dose it get hard and dry over time.works of spring thru fall

[Rusty Parker]

I have replaced the beeswax/ crisco w/ beeswax/olive oil. it will not go rancide nor dose it get hard and dry over time.works of spring thru fall

that's another good suggestion--I've got half a pound of beeswax left and can mix up a batch with olive oil to try out. I have been thinking also of adding a bit of lanolin to the wax/crisco mixture, sounds it that would help also with the hardness/drying out issue. But I'll try the olive oil mix. Years ago the magic recipe was beeswax and Mobil One. At any rate I'm much more willing to experiment now then I was when I first started, I'm open for any and all suggestions.

[PAT303]

I've been thinking of trying beeswax and ATF. Pat

[59sharps]

that's another good suggestion--I've got half a pound of beeswax left and can mix up a batch with olive oil to try out. I have been thinking also of adding a bit of lanolin to the wax/crisco mixture, sounds it that would help also with the hardness/drying out issue. But I'll try the olive oil mix. Years ago the magic recipe was beeswax and Mobil One. At any rate I'm much more willing to experiment now then I was when I first started, I'm open for any and all suggestions.
I would eleminate the lanoin completly. see no need for the extra expence.
Cleaning my hands the other day w/ GOOP. I was wondering how that would work in the mix.