CCI Mil. Spec?

[joatmon]

Any problems with the CCI mil. spec. large rifle primer. Would like to use them with WC680. Thanks Aaron

[Buckshot]

..............I don't have a need for them, and I undertsand their reason for being is semi and full auto operation. They're designed to be a bit harder to set off. May or may not be a problem depending upon what you're gonna use them in.

...............Buckshot

[garandsrus]

Joatmon,

I have used several thousand of them in a Garand. I have heard that they are equivalent to a magnum primer. I don't know if this is true. I haven't had any problems with them.

I use them to help prevent a slamfire as the primer is "harder" as Buckshot said. I have never had a slamfire and don't know of anyone else that has either.

I have not used them with WC680.

John

[joatmon]

Thanks for the replies. The reason I was asking is I saw where Wideners has them on close out 70.00/5M and thought at 14.00/M if they would work in my
M48's,Turks and 24/47 I would get some on my way by to the VA hosp.
Thanks again Aaron

[rbstern]

Is it just me, or does it seem like there is a real lack of technical data available for primers?

[HORNET]

rbstern,
The primer manufacturers all do lots of testing to ensure that their product complies with their specifications so there is a lot of technical data, it's just not available to us lowly users.
OTOH, if you visit CabineTree's web site at castingstuff.com (I don't have the exact website handy but a search will find it), Gussy has a very nice list of data for Large Rifle and Large Pistol Primers including relative brisance and standard deviations for fairly large samples. Hopefully, he'll finish working on the house and do some testing with the Small primers...someday.[smilie=s:

[felix]

CCI has been in military primer operations since the beginnings of its facilities. The company started by military request to augment the other manufacturers. I doubt very seriously their "commercial" line of primers are actually different on purpose. Thier cup metal is fatter and harder than "equivalent" others by a significant amount. ... felix

[StarMetal]

Felix,

Mr Harris of NRA fame has done alot of reloading for AR15's and especially match ammo. So this means he was very aware that AR15 can slamfire, so he thoroughly tested small rifle primers for specific use in AR15's. At the time of his tests, he concluded that Winchester had the hardess primer of all the brands tested and advised everyone who reloads for an AR15 to use them.

I don't know if you have an AR15, but I do. It's a preban Colt HBAR. Let me tell you that if you charge the weapon, but don't fire the round and extract it, there's a firing pin dimple on the primer. They do this all the time too. I have never had a slamfire in that rifle. I have even rechambered the same round over and over and over to see if it would eventually fire, but it did not.

So I would come to the conclusion that CCI's military primers have either a harder or thicker cup.

Joe

[BruceB]

The first time I used the CCI #34 was when my new M1A arrived last September. I'd placed a special order with our wonderful local Ace Hardware store for a box of 5000 primers while awaiting the rifle's arrival. (Ace does NO-CHARGE dealer transfers for me!)

In prior years, I used the CCI 200 standard LR primers in a very large array of military semi-auto rifle types, without so much as a hint of a problem. These rifles included several FN FALs, an FN 49, an HK 91, a 1918A1 BAR, a M1941 Johnson, three or four Garands, two M14s and three M1As, several 6.5mm AG42B Ljungmanns, and a Bren LMG. Yeah, we used to be able to SHOOT in Canada....

As Joe mentioned, the Garand/M1A/M14 designs do indeed show a primer dimple on unfired rounds extracted from their chambers, as do the AR15/M16 rifles. On comparing such dimples between CCI 200s and CCI 34s, I don't see any obvious difference in diameter or depth.

This is just a case of my following the advice of folks who SHOULD know about such things, but at the same time I see reports that 34s are "less accurate" in match rifles than WW LR primers, or whatever. My M1A won't be seeing any matches, and I don't care a hoot if the average group is a wee bit larger than with the other primers out there. I do care that the rifle should not slam-fire on some unfortunate occasion. The special-order CCI 34s cost me about $19/M, or 1.9 cents each, compared to 1.6 cents for the 200s off the shelf. That is cheap insurance, indeed...

[9.3X62AL]

While we're on the subject of primers......I wasn't aware that Winchesters were relatively hard, but one other thing C.E. Harris also mentioned about the Winchester spark plugs was the presence of an aluminum oxide fuel additive that was intended to assist in combustion of Winchester ball powders--in the case of the 5.56 x 45 and 7.62 x 51, that would mean WW-748 on the commercial end of things. I use a LOT of Winchester ball powders, so W-W primers get a lot of play on my loading bench.

[Dale53]

A schuetzen shooter of some note, who, with his partner, makes FINE custom moulds has an Oehler Ballistic lab. They have recently run some small rifle primer tests. Interesting results. Now, the tests were limited to a .32 Miller Short. CCI, Winchester, and Remington primers were measured for velocity with the same load. He stated after the results that it appeared as if he had copied the results from one primer. They were EXACTLY the same. Same velocity, highs and lows, and SD (only varied a point or two). He was REALLY surprised. I wonder if the new environmentally better primer technology has beeh shared between companies? Seems to be the only logical explanation that I have...

FWIW
Dale53

[StarMetal]

Dale,

As with alot of products that have a specification to be met, maybe prmers became one. Who knows, maybe SAAMI requested they all be in the same ballpark. Just a thought.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Okay...this is from CCI's own website and about their military primer. You see Felix, it IS different from their commercial primer. We were both half right and half wrong. I thought it would have a harder or thicker cup material. I did think about the compound being more sensitive, but then said "nah" and didn't post about it. Here it is read it:



http://www.cci-ammunition.com/images/URC.jpg CCI® No. 34 and No. 41 MILITARY RIFLE PRIMERS


Military-style semi-auto rifles seldom have firing pin retraction springs. If care is not used in assembling ammunition, a “slam-fire” can occur before the bolt locks. The military arsenals accomplish this using different techniques and components—including different primer sensitivity specifications—from their commercial counterparts. CCI makes rifle primers for commercial sale that matches military sensitivity specs that reduce the chance of a slam-fire when other factors go out of control*. If you’re reloading for a military semi-auto, look to CCI Military primers.
*Effective slam-fire prevention requires more than special primers. Headspace, chamber condition, firing pin shape and protrusion, bolt velocity, cartridge case condition, and other factors can affect slam-fire potential.
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/images/mil_primers.jpg

[fourarmed]

Here's a data point of sorts. The striker nose on Merrill and XL pistols is relatively large, and the striker spring is not as strong as it might be. The manufacturers recommend Rem 7 1/2 primers as being least likely to protrude back into the firing pin hole and lock up the gun.

[StarMetal]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha, fourarm...boy what a crock of poop that this. Well then again it might not be, but let me explain. I've been shooting alot of 30 Luger lately and it's a very high pressure round. I started out with Win primers, ran out and all they had were CCI's, but then I got some Remingtons. Guess what, with the same bullet, load, and guns...the Rem primers started cutting donuts in two guns.

Joe

[Bass Ackward]

Thanks for the replies. The reason I was asking is I saw where Wideners has them on close out 70.00/5M and thought at 14.00/M if they would work in my
M48's,Turks and 24/47 I would get some on my way by to the VA hosp.
Thanks again Aaron


Joaty,

IF the phenom about headspace reduction from brass shrinkage actually comes from the blow of the firing pin against the primer on rimless cases, then a harder primer is going to cause you more headspace problems with .... normal cast level loads. That's why I use pistol primers when I can and I never see problems on cases such as 35 Whelen where others claim problems. Just so you know.

[joatmon]

Thanks Bass Ackward. I didn't know about the headspace issue. Am going to the VA hospital friday but will let the primers slide.