Scot 453 in the 30WCF

[Marlin Junky]

Howdy, my handle is Marlin Junky and I have a loading problem:drinks:

I've got some Scot 453 on the way from Pat's Reloading and I want to drop a charge in 30-30 Winchester brass that'll give me 1400+ fps from my 56 year old 336A using a boolit cast from my semi-custom Mountain Mold, mould.

The boolit in question is a 197 grain PB in BHN 15 metal, with 3 lube grooves, no crimp groove (I Lee Factory crimp on the .160" wide forward band) and sized from .313-.3135" (as-cast) to .312" in a Lyman 450. The reason it's so fat is because the 336A in question measures .310" in the grooves.

I've only been working with this boolit for a couple months but have gotten decent results using 13.0 grains of WC-820 and a 1/2 sheet of TP for 1490+ fps. I purchased the 453 in an attempt to eliminate fooling around with the TP. 13.0 grains of WC-820 doesn't produce the results I'm looking for when the charge is sloshing around in the case.

I've attached a couple 5-round groups shot with the MM-30-197PB at 75 yards using 13 grains of WC-820, Winchester cases, Fed 210 primers and my 56 year old 336A wearing a Williams FP with .050" aperture.

Thanks for listening,
Marlin Junky
AKA MJ

P.S.
Not that it makes any difference but is there anyone out there who knows why Marlin cut their grooves so deep in the older 336s? The 336 referenced above has a normal bore diameter of .3000" to .3005".

[RayinNH]

Marlin Junky, you'll have trouble finding load data for Scot 453. However you can use Green Dot load data, and as usual start low and work your way up. http://home.hiwaay.net/~stargate/powder/powder.htm (http://home.hiwaay.net/%7Estargate/powder/powder.htm)

Ray

[Marlin Junky]

RayinNH,

I've already been to Alliant's website... no Green Dot data for the 30-30 there. Besides Green Dot's burn rate is all over the place, for example:

http://www.ramshot.com/powders/
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/general/burnratechart.php
http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html
http://www.vihtavuori-lapua.com/chartVihta.asp

I think I'd rather use WW-452 or WST data, but can't find any data for those powders either in anything remotely resembling the 30-30 case.

MJ

[RayinNH]

Marlin Junky, I checked the burn rate charts that you provided. You're right in that Green Dot does change places however on the Ramshot table it's only 4 places away. The Reloadbench chart shows it's also 4 places away, and the chart I provided 1 place away. The charts cover 153 powders, 173 powders and 246 powders, so only 4 away is pretty close. That's why you start low and work up.

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook lists #311407 as the heaviest boolit they provide data for. They list it at 173 gr. in the 3rd edition and 183 grs. in the 1973 book.

Load data for Green Dot is
6.5 grs. 1131 fps. 25,800 CUP
8.5 grs. 1306 fps. 35,500 CUP

Start at maybe 5 or 5.5 grs and see how they do.

I use Scot 453 in handgun loads. Accurate provided data for some calibers but not all that I load for. The rest I use Green Dot data and it works well. I hope this helps...Ray

[Marlin Junky]

Thanks Ray...

The thing that really caught my eye about the charts though is that Green Dot and AA#2 switch places in terms of which one is faster/slower depending on who's chart you look at. I sure hope Scot 453 is a good deal slower than the lot of Green Dot used to derive the data in your 33 year old Lyman reference. I'm pretty sure 35.5K CUP is too much pressure for a .30 cal bullet 1.08" long cast from BHN 15 metal.

Regards,
MJ

[Marlin Junky]

I finally got my Scot 453 loaded and it performed well under the 197 grain PB boolit. Using 8.0 grains the 30-197-PB chronographed 1213 fps and with 9.0 grains it went 1313 fps. Groups were similar to (or even a little better than) the ones shot with WC-820 above and stats were very good. I'm going to re-test 9.0 grains then go with 10.0 in a couple weeks. I also tested 15 grains of N120 which produced about 1450 to 1460 fps with a half grain of Dacron but the stats using 453 without filler were way better than with N120.

MJ

[felix]

N120 is a winner at around 21 grains minimum. 21-23. ... felix

[Marlin Junky]

In a 30WCF? Not without a gascheck! I've shot patterns, not groups with 17 grains using "perfect" 1.08" long PB boolits at .002" over groove and 15 to 16 BHN. It was a waste of beautiful bullet metal.

MJ

[RayinNH]

Marlin Junky, I was wondering if you had done any shooting in your 30 WCF with the Scot 453. Glad to hear things are working out...Ray