So what is a good handgun shot?

[Thumbcocker]

I don't mean anything that hits the target. I am referring to individuals who fire handguns. I know a lot of people who can pretty much hit on or near what they are aiming at within their range limitations(not me) :( . Other people (definietly not me)[smilie=b: can put a lot of rounds into small clusters shooting off hand at paper. Skeeter wrote about Bill Jordan talking about old time gun fighters who couldn't buy a group on a target but were salty in a gunfight.

So what is your definition of a good handgun shot?

[beagle]

Kind of an interesting question here. There are various kinds of "shots". There are the bullseye shooters who punch paper for a hobby, then the "silly wetters", then the steel plate boys, the IPSC crowd , the cowboys, those who shoot all the time from sandbags and some I've probably left out. These guys all are good shots IMO.

Then there are the guys that field shoot. I mean roaming the creek bank punching cans and shooting turtles and targets of opportunity. The plinkers who shoot a hell of a lot of ammo every year. These guys will tear you up in a gun fight as they're use to shooting without a rest, at various sized targets at varying distances.

At one time I was shooting at leat 250 rounds a week and was a fairly decent shot. Now that I don't shoot much, my shooting has gone down.

IMO, it's these guys that shoot all the time that make the good shots as they have time to get it down at various ranges and know where that gun will shoot./beagle

[sundog]

...and bowling pins

yup, and snakes and turtles on pond an river banks. Especially the ponds. Fishing is kinda impotent to a country boy...

[softpoint]

One gun scribe, Ross Seifred, I believe, once stated that if you could average 2.5 inches at 25 yds, or "about an inch every ten yards" with whatever standard ,untuned gun you happened to have at the moment ,you would stand in pretty good company. Offhand, of course, with iron sights. On occasion I can do much better than that, and then @#%&?? There is that flier. I'll just never know why I go ahead and pull the trigger when the sights aren't lined up !!.
That standard is as good of an estimate as any, there are so many things that affect offhand pistol shooting on a given day, The light, the wind,(that not only blows the bullet about, but your body as well), Temperature, coffee, days till tax time, etc, all can have an effect.
Shooting handgun silhouette, the difference between a good day and a bad day prone may only be a couple of targets. Shooting offhand, it may be half the darn targets!:drinks:

[bearcove]

Went deer hunting 'bout 25 years ago. High school age. Deer camp had about 10-12 of us there. It was at an old farm house in Mo. Used to shoot out there a lot. This kid asked me what I was going to do with THAT. That was my ruger blackhawk 3 screw 357 mag. Told him if I saw a deer I was going to kill it. Lots of laughs! Him too! Well, put up targets at about 75 yrds, he started to lay down, naw "Stand up ,do you think a deer is going to wait for you to lay down." He shot a 5 inch group with his scoped 30-06, mine was 2 and a half.

I was the only one to get a deer that year.

About 75 yards two shots about an inch and a half apart on a walking deer.

First deer, after about 50,000 rds of reloads threw that gun.

Still shoot that ruger, Its like a part of me.

And I was fast from leather before sass was thought of.

It all comes from practice.

[softpoint]

As an added note, I have a friend who has made the rank of "Grand Master" in IPSC competition. He doesn't shoot well at distances at all, but the speed at which he can put a hole in 5 or 6 torso sized targets at out to 15 yards is pretty awesome in itself . He'd probably be pretty dangerous in a close quarters gunfight. :drinks:

[bearcove]

Read too much Louis Lamore when I was young. Fast draw was an obsession for a while. Fun trick, with gun in holster (tied down) throw a gallon milk jug with a few rocks in it about 50 feet underhand with your shooting hand. Not more than about 8-10 feet high! Shoot it BEFORE it hits the ground. When you can hit it every time, you start thinking "how do I hit it twice". In my experience you are there, then.

After all first shot hits are the objective.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

The one that stops the bad guy in one!

Sam :D

[targetshootr]

So what is your definition of a good handgun shot?

Someone who grins before and after they hit the target. Hate em.


:smile:

[theperfessor]

I think it was Jeff Cooper that said something along the line of "after six months a rifle shooter still has 90% of their skill but a pistol shooter has lost 90% of their skill".

By that definition I'd define a good shot as someone who gets enough practice to be consistently able to hit whatever type of target their recreational pursuit entails.

(By that definition I'm not a very good shot...)

[HWooldridge]

My son is the wildlife manager for a large ranch. He carries a .45 LC sixshooter (Mitchell Arms, 5-1/2" bbl) and shoots it daily. He often kills feral hogs with a variety of guns but usually has the .45 handy. Yesterday, he confronted a 300lb hog in heavy brush at about ten feet; when the hog charged, my kid shot him once between the eyes but can't recall aiming - just that the boar dropped at his feet. So I can't say that he is a good shot but he seldom misses.

[farshooter]

A good handgun shot is one who does not flinch, ever. Line the sights, don't flinch and the bullet goes exactly where it's aimed.

Simple, but like golf, many play, but few make the cut. Most flinch.

Doc Burgess
Director, National Shooters League of the 1970s.
For a discription of the NSL see Major George C. Nonte, Jr's. book, "Handgun Competition," pp 134-144, Winchester Press, 1978

[MT Gianni]

Someone who can call their hits and their misses. One who hits what they shoot at whether it's 7 or 400 yards.

[farshooter]

MT Gianni, One of the best pistol shots I ever saw was from Kalispell, Montana. Ad Clark was his name. Shot a full go .44 mag. One of the best shots in the world.

Doc Burgess

[dk17hmr]

Hitting P-dogs off hand at unknown ranges....consistantly....only connected twice with my 454 and about 120 rounds.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/dk17hmr/2-3.jpg

[S.R.Custom]

I've learned that a good shot is all a matter of perspective, and frequently involves a healthy measure of luck...

At the local range there are some steel posts driven into the ground at 25 yards to hang targets on. One day I pulled up, and there was a younger gentleman taking turns with a number of pistols, shooting at what appeared to be nothing at all, in the vicinity of one of these posts. So as he was reloading, I asked him what he was shooting at.

"There's a .410 shotgun shell sitting on top that post. I've been trying to hit it for the past 15 minutes."

"I can't see it," I said. "Which post?"

"The left one. It's a green Remington-- it's hard to see against the sagebrush. Give it a try, you might have better luck." Was that a hint of smirk I saw on his face?

I looked at the left post and still couldn't see it. All that was visible to me was the fuzzy post. But I took out my .45 anyway, racked a round into the chamber, and aimed at a spot just above the post. At first I wasn't going to give it much of a try as I truly couldn't see the .410 shell. But that smirk prompted me to give it my best shot.

I figured that 9.5 out of 10 people would place the shell on the middle of the perch, and this guy struck me as being pretty average --even if he was a bit snotty-- so I aimed at a spot just above the middle of the post, concentrated on holding the sights still, gave a good trigger squeeze, and cleanly picked the .410 shell off the top of the post with my first shot.

I may not have been able to see that tiny target on top of the post, but I could sure pick it out as it sailed through the air. And he could too. Without a word or a single look my way, the gentleman packed up his guns and gear, got in his car, and drove off, clearly irritated by the best shot he'd seen in a long while.

I, on the other hand, knew that I wouldn't be able to repeat that performance even if I'd spent the next three days trying...

[dubber123]

Supermag, I saw my buddy Jerry pull a similar stunt. Back in the early 90's we were shooting with some "newbie" cops up from Connecticut. They were shooting at one of the "hostage" style targets, and not doing very well.

We later moved the target to almost 100 yds. Jerry steps up, and with his Mossberg 12 ga., which he had shortened by eye, (approximately 15° muzzle angle, and no bead)., put a slug right through the bad guys neck. He did have the sense to put the gun right in the car and not try again... The look on their face was priceless!

[Lloyd Smale]

to me its someone who can make hits under pressure. Whether it be two or four legged critters or in the heat of competition. I think im a fair had with a handgun but when put under pressure of competition my scores drop off about 5 percent which isnt good. Ive seen guys that were a good hand with a handgun at the range that couldnt make a good shot on a deer at 25 yards. Handguns arent near as forgiving as rifles and to me mastering one mentaly is tougher then mastering one physicaly. Competitive shooting is something i stuggle with. I dont even enjoy it because i get so frustrated but i keep making myself go back hoping someday ill beat that monkey on my back. but until then keep the young kids and tender ears back a ways from me when im scoring my targets!

[44man]

to me its someone who can make hits under pressure. Whether it be two or four legged critters or in the heat of competition. I think im a fair had with a handgun but when put under pressure of competition my scores drop off about 5 percent which isnt good. Ive seen guys that were a good hand with a handgun at the range that couldnt make a good shot on a deer at 25 yards. Handguns arent near as forgiving as rifles and to me mastering one mentaly is tougher then mastering one physicaly. Competitive shooting is something i stuggle with. I dont even enjoy it because i get so frustrated but i keep making myself go back hoping someday ill beat that monkey on my back. but until then keep the young kids and tender ears back a ways from me when im scoring my targets!
This is the best answer so far except for being able to call a shot, hit or miss.
My friend bought my SRH from me that I was able to hit a pop can with at 200 yards from bags. I know just how accurate it is. We take turns shooting deer targets from my ladder stand and he packs his shots in the heart real nice.
When he shoots at a deer, a 10' miss is the best he can do! ;) He tells me where the deer was standing and I find a boolit hole in a tree at least 10' away. He has only killed one or two deer in his life and I can't figure out how he did that! :bigsmyl2:
I shot target archery for years and years and the top shooters went to PA every year and none of them ever killed a deer that I remember.
Off hand shooting is more then just practice and the best shooters at long range can hold still and on target until the trigger breaks. Not so with most of us because we jiggle and shake too much. Your body will dictate your accuracy as will eyesight.
Now the speed shooters are different and constant practice is needed but there does not seem to be a limit to how good they can get. This type of shooting means you need to shoot every day for hours on end but recoil must be soft. Stick a .44 or .475 in their hands and they can't do it with speed even though slow shots can be accurate. They are like shotgun shooters, they pull the trigger and eye, trigger pull coordination has to be perfected by constant shooting.
My idea of accuracy is to shoot very small groups from a bench and still be able to hit a deer off hand at 100 yards. All with heavy recoil of hunting loads.
I can't do a lot of the other things because I have no use for them and never practice other ways.
It depends on the shooting game you are in.
Look at Bob Munden's hands! He probably shot 6 straight hours before starting his video. His hands are always black.
Then how you handle recoil will tell the story.

[waksupi]

MT Gianni, One of the best pistol shots I ever saw was from Kalispell, Montana. Ad Clark was his name. Shot a full go .44 mag. One of the best shots in the world.

Doc Burgess

Yep, that's Ad Clark. He was long time police chief in Kalispell, and unbeatable with a handgun.
Ad is retired now, living in a little log cabin above Kalispell. He doesn't shoot much anymore, having got interested in radio control aircraft.

[felix]

Yes, it seems, whenever the challenge goes away, so does the effort. That is why it is always best to never enter your hobby into a profession, whatever either are. Mr. Clark did the correct thing. ... felix

[MT Gianni]

to me its someone who can make hits under pressure. Whether it be two or four legged critters or in the heat of competition. I think im a fair had with a handgun but when put under pressure of competition my scores drop off about 5 percent which isnt good. Ive seen guys that were a good hand with a handgun at the range that couldnt make a good shot on a deer at 25 yards. Handguns arent near as forgiving as rifles and to me mastering one mentaly is tougher then mastering one physicaly. Competitive shooting is something i stuggle with. I dont even enjoy it because i get so frustrated but i keep making myself go back hoping someday ill beat that monkey on my back. but until then keep the young kids and tender ears back a ways from me when im scoring my targets!

Very true Lloyd. When my wife shot PPC with us once her practice scores were 265-275 out of 300, her match scores were 200. I shot with a man who would consistently shoot 565-570 in practice and 585-590 in a match. The pressure made him focus that much more but they are very few and far between.

[softpoint]

I've learned that a good shot is all a matter of perspective, and frequently involves a healthy measure of luck...

At the local range there are some steel posts driven into the ground at 25 yards to hang targets on. One day I pulled up, and there was a younger gentleman taking turns with a number of pistols, shooting at what appeared to be nothing at all, in the vicinity of one of these posts. So as he was reloading, I asked him what he was shooting at.

"There's a .410 shotgun shell sitting on top that post. I've been trying to hit it for the past 15 minutes."

"I can't see it," I said. "Which post?"

"The left one. It's a green Remington-- it's hard to see against the sagebrush. Give it a try, you might have better luck." Was that a hint of smirk I saw on his face?

I looked at the left post and still couldn't see it. All that was visible to me was the fuzzy post. But I took out my .45 anyway, racked a round into the chamber, and aimed at a spot just above the post. At first I wasn't going to give it much of a try as I truly couldn't see the .410 shell. But that smirk prompted me to give it my best shot.

I'm going to go try that with my 625 right now, I have it out of the safe, and I have some empty 410's

[EMC45]

I have been shooting almost 30 years. From rimfire handgun on up. I recently had to qualify for my job on the M9 Beretta. I aced it on practice fire (expert) then on qualifier I dropped expert by 6 rounds! Pressure. I can shoot wheelguns and my Hi Power quite well, but other guns aren't so accomodating.

[peter nap]

That's a very good question. To me, it is someone that hits what they're shooting at. That also means they have to stay within their range limits.
I admitted a long time ago, that I would never be a GREAT pistol shot.
Some days at 20 yards, I shoot one ragged hole and some days, I play the devil keeping all my shots on a pie plate.

I won't take any shot at game over 40 yards using a rest.

I do shoot a lot of .410's out of my BFR. I'm a much better shot with number 6's.

[Wally]

I feel this way...at 75 yards I use a 6" x 18" suspeneded steel plate. If you/I can hit it 5 out of six shots, that is plenty good. This is shooting offhand and with factory iron sights. To those who can do better--God bless...that's great.

[softpoint]

Results: 1st shot at the 410 hull at 25 yds. MISS Decided to check sight setting, shot at a vertical line at 25, about 3/4 to the right of that, Was it me ,or the sights? Moved the sights one click to left. Try again, Bingo! retrieved the hull, Barely scratched the brass base, but did hit it. Decided to try something else, Nickel .44 Magnum hull ,discarded because of split neck. Took three trys, thirds the charm they say. Don't know where I hit it, 'cause I can't find it, .45 slug took it way out in the pasture somewhere.
The 625 is one of the most accurate pistols I own. I have a tuned 1911 that may shoot a little better, but I don't think I could do any better with it. or my FA either,
Just a couple of days ago I was shooting at some bowling pins that I'd put up at 100 meters offhand. I shot about 100 rounds out of my 7mmBR, 10 inch Encore, and .44 Mag FA. my best average was about 1out of 3 or 4 with the Encore, probably only about 1 out of 6 with the FA, both with iron sights, the Encore has silhouette sights by ISGW.
:|

[vanilla_gorilla]

I've learned that a good shot is all a matter of perspective, and frequently involves a healthy measure of luck...

At the local range there are some steel posts driven into the ground at 25 yards to hang targets on. One day I pulled up, and there was a younger gentleman taking turns with a number of pistols, shooting at what appeared to be nothing at all, in the vicinity of one of these posts. So as he was reloading, I asked him what he was shooting at.

"There's a .410 shotgun shell sitting on top that post. I've been trying to hit it for the past 15 minutes."

"I can't see it," I said. "Which post?"

"The left one. It's a green Remington-- it's hard to see against the sagebrush. Give it a try, you might have better luck." Was that a hint of smirk I saw on his face?

I looked at the left post and still couldn't see it. All that was visible to me was the fuzzy post. But I took out my .45 anyway, racked a round into the chamber, and aimed at a spot just above the post. At first I wasn't going to give it much of a try as I truly couldn't see the .410 shell. But that smirk prompted me to give it my best shot.

I figured that 9.5 out of 10 people would place the shell on the middle of the perch, and this guy struck me as being pretty average --even if he was a bit snotty-- so I aimed at a spot just above the middle of the post, concentrated on holding the sights still, gave a good trigger squeeze, and cleanly picked the .410 shell off the top of the post with my first shot.

I may not have been able to see that tiny target on top of the post, but I could sure pick it out as it sailed through the air. And he could too. Without a word or a single look my way, the gentleman packed up his guns and gear, got in his car, and drove off, clearly irritated by the best shot he'd seen in a long while.

I, on the other hand, knew that I wouldn't be able to repeat that performance even if I'd spent the next three days trying...


A friend and I pulled up out at a pit the locals like to shoot at, and there was a group of guys banging away at bowling pins with AR-15s at roughly 125-130 yards. The friend with me whipped out his trusty 5.5 inch Super Blackhawk and assumed the classic "off hand on hip" Bullseye position. Bangflopped that bowling pin with the first shot. He just casually put his Ruger away and went back to helping me unload the truck, and by the time we got done, those guys had packed up and were long gone.

[waksupi]

Yes, it seems, whenever the challenge goes away, so does the effort. That is why it is always best to never enter your hobby into a profession, whatever either are. Mr. Clark did the correct thing. ... felix

Looking at it that way, Felix, Ad may be retrogressing. He used to fly jets off of aircraft carriers!

[rvpilot76]

I just love reading stories of old salts and days gone by.

[mike in co]

pistol is a short range gun.......if its further away you should be shooting a rifle.

does that mean shots cannot be made at long distance...heck no.


my most impressive to date is shooting a steel plate at 100 with a 45acp....and
put your boots on

i have two witnesses......

a steel gong at 300 yds with a


9mm!


( ok it has a dot scope on which allows me to hold over...a bunch, but still see the target)

took a couple to get on target...then shot it shot after shot

i have never tried a long shot with my 44srh.....

mike in co

[mike in co]

I feel this way...at 75 yards I use a 6" x 18" suspeneded steel plate. If you/I can hit it 5 out of six shots, that is plenty good. This is shooting offhand and with factory iron sights. To those who can do better--God bless...that's great.


off hand......jesss man why do think you have TWO HANDS.

STUPID IN MY OPINON to shoot one handed if two are available,

mike in co

[bobthenailer]

i have shot matches for many years. in the begining i folded like a cheap lawn chair when the pressure was on and it made me mad because i knew i was better than that. its amazing what the other shooters would come up with to help get me rattled + my owen problems! . well after you get put into enough pressure sooner or later you come out on top! hay look i did it !!!!!
now you start to get confidance in yourself as time goes on you win more pressure situations untill you lean to control pressure not 100% but pretty good! now the pressure is on the other shooters .
ive allways strived to be the best in any handgun matches, and ive spent alot of time & shooting in persute of this goal, i love it !! and being a good shot is alot of hard work & dedication
i dont like shooting easy matches as they make you a sloppy shooter because you arent trying 100 % .
my most memorable moments in shooting matches are the pressure matches even if you dont win its a real high if you gave 100&

[jim4065]

Someone who can out-shoot you with your gun.

[rvpilot76]

I took a crow at an estimated 300 yards on Admiralty Island in Alaska in 1994. There was a witness, and I was lucky because that boolit (H&G 250 Keith) bounced about 10 feet in front of that bird off the wet sand from the receding tide, and went clean through him. First time I'd ever seen a boolit skip off the surface of the water displaying the twist of the barrel as the boolit moved in a RH arc. The weapon? A Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt with a 4 5/8" barrel. Let me tell 'ya, bluing rusts pretty quick in SE Alaska, especially when you're right on the water! It was a chore to keep that revolver from turning brown! Geez, and to think I was only 17 then. Man, time has flown by.

Kevin

[softpoint]

off hand......jesss man why do think you have TWO HANDS.

STUPID IN MY OPINON to shoot one handed if two are available,

mike in co

I guess he should say "freehand" I'm guilty too, I use the term "offhand" and freehand interchangably, One handed shooting I think of as "one handed" , or"weak hand" in the case of a right handed shooter using his left hand.:grin:[smilie=2:

[farshooter]

waksupi,

Thanks for your reply regarding Ad Clark. Ad had won my National Shooters League match two years in a row. In 1976, his first year at the match, he finished second behind retired Air Force Major Frank Green. Major Green had won a silver medal at the 1964 Olympic Games. Green was the U.S. Olympic pistol coach at the 1968 games.

Shooters from 32 of our states entered the match. These shooters were from every pistol shooting discipline. A U.S. Olympic Pistol coach won my match in 1976. National, International, Pan-American games' gold medalists, Olympic medalists, PPC national champions such as Royce Weddle, Norman, Oklahoma (NSLs 1977 champion) IPSEC champions; Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps champions from many different matches; the Army Reserve Pistol Team, with Mel Makin, gold medalist in the PanAmerican games; National Guard in all branches; Camp Perry 2700 champions, including Jim Clark; Highway patrol, police such as the LAPD pistol team, Border Patrol, Texas Rangers, including their firearms training officer Reeves Jungkind; FBI, Secret Service, Sheriffs, Womens' PPC national champions and fine pistol shooters from all shooting disciplines participated. Major Nonte said, "This was the first professional pistol match in the world."

Bill Jordan wrote the first story about this match in "Guns Magazine."

Major Frank Green, U.S.A.F, a 30 year veteran of all other forms of handgun competition said this, as reported by Major George C. Nonte, Jr. in his book, "Handgun Competition": "This is absolutely the most challenging form of pistol competition I have encountered in my entire career, absolutely the best course I have ever known."

Ad Clark won the last two National Shooters League matches held in 1978 and 1979.

Doc Burgess

[Dave C.]

off hand......jesss man why do think you have TWO HANDS.

STUPID IN MY OPINON to shoot one handed if two are available,

mike in co

They are called HANDguns not HANDSguns!

Dave C.

[BOOM BOOM]

HI,
My old standard of good pistol shots were Elmer, Bill, & Jeff. Boy do I wish they were still with us!
One glorious summer I had was spent just trying to come close to what Elmer did with a hungun. 5,000 rounds of 357 and steel plates that sang to me. I did OK but anything past 200yds. was a bit of luck or a gift from heaven.
I guess I will never be as good as Elmer on distance shots. Haven't even tried to do what Bill & Jeff did but I am not dead yet , so maybe.
I asked some people to go shoot with me , got very few takers. Most only went 1 time. My 2 nephews were the only ones who went more than 1 time.
I would like to be able to get groups like 44man, to name just one of the many outstanding hangun shooters who post here.
WE WALK IN GOOD COMPANY.
Ed Magiven(SP) to name another great.

[EMC45]

I hit a 20 oz. Gatorade bottle at 100 yds once. I held high only to realize the trajectory was straight on. It took a few rounds, but I connected. This was with the Hi Power and a 120gr. Lee TC bullet over 3.5gr. Bullseye.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I messed around with a target at 100 yds and tried to hit with my Taurus 1911.

With my powder puff reloads of 200 GR LSWC and some accurate 2 powder I finally realized that it did not take a hold over of more than 8 inches to hit the paper.

I got to the point where I could put a clip of ammo onto the paper and lost interest. Then I tried to hit some bowling pins at the same distance. They were a lot harder to hit and I did a lot better with my OMBH in 357 with a 180 GR LFN.

When hit solidly then they went down with authority. It was fun but totally impratical to shoot a handgun at those ranges.

[jh45gun]

When I was young and shooting a lot I put 6 shots from a Ruger Single Six using the 22 mag cylinder into a cigarette Carton at 100 yards all were in a nice cluster. I really am sorry I Sold that gun to by another pistol as that one from Ruger was a keeper not all are. The next Single Six I bought years later you could not hit the same size Carton at 25 yards let alone a 100.

[bob208]

i used to shoot alot. in fact i used to say if i took up one more type of compition i would have to quit working to have time to shoot.

i would take stock guns and shoot aginst race guns and beat them. one time i took their money by starting with the right hand shoot a soda can then go to the left hit a can then back to the right. six shots six cans. it was 25 yd.

[Thumbcocker]

The next Single Six I bought years later you could not hit the same size Carton at 25 yards let alone a 100.

I have learned that when you get a handgun that shoots well for you regardless of make, model,or apprearance it is a keeper.

[jh45gun]

I have learned that when you get a handgun that shoots well for you regardless of make, model,or apprearance it is a keeper.

I agree and all my guns I have now are keepers I would not get rid of one of them but back then I did not realize that and traded guns like changeing underwear if I decided I wanted something better as that was the only way I could normally afford to get the gun right away. That first Single Six was the first gun I ever sold to buy an other. I should have learned my lesson then but did not. While the gun I bought was a nice gun a Smith and Wesson Model Ten Military Police. I had my heart set on a 357 but the small gun shop did not have any in my price range so I settled for the 38. Nice gun but I wanted more which of course made me disatisfied with the Model Ten.