Swedish m/1867 on a not so good day

[Dutchman]

The good news doesn't last very long.

12,7x44R Swedish rolling block sporter.
350 gr. cast bullet (Wayne Doudna)
29 grains 5744

A very nice group considering the very rudimentary sights and 10 pound triggerpull.

http://images108.fotki.com/v1583/photos/4/28344/7937087/127_350_29_5744-vi.jpg

This was a m/1867-74 rolling block. What distinguishes a -74? The rear sight bed was lined out and recalibrated. And the buttstock is of the high comb design that signifies the 1874 upgrade. Its a very much improved stock design, too.

http://images110.fotki.com/v1582/photos/4/28344/7937087/rb001-vi.jpg

http://images44.fotki.com/v1581/photos/4/28344/7937087/rb003-vi.jpg

If you look close you can see the bore was drilled off center. There's more meat at the 12 o'clock position. Not unusual for the era.

http://images34.fotki.com/v1144/photos/4/28344/7937087/rb008-vi.jpg

I think this front sight blade is the early m/96 Mauser Vee blade.

http://images53.fotki.com/v1575/photos/4/28344/7937087/rb009-vi.jpg

Much better view of the stock comb. And at one time this rifle was adorned with a plaque of some kind. Considering the flashy arctic birch it may have been a prize rifle in some shooting competition. Now it just hangs around in the darkened interior of some guy's safe doing nothing most of the time. What a sad life.

http://images52.fotki.com/v1565/photos/4/28344/7937087/rb007-vi.jpg

After shooting the very small number of smokeless loads on the above target I started shooting some blackpowder loads. 350gr and 450gr cast bullets with 65 & 70 grs Fffg (3Fg) with vegetable wad.

I couldn't hit paper with them! Wasn't the gun. Wasn't the shooter as the above target demonstrates.

And then........

http://images41.fotki.com/v1577/photos/4/28344/7937087/rb010-vi.jpg

The other end is still stuck in the chamber :x.

I suspect this was caused from corrosion due to insufficient case interior cleaning from a prior firing with blackpowder. What do youse guys think?

This rifle is begging for better sights. And triggerpull adjustment of some kind. Way too heavy. But the action is very tight and sound. This was the one 12,7mm sporter I kept out of the 30+ rolling blocks passed through my hands in the last 9 years. It has something that I liked. Just something..

Dutch

[Dutchman]

http://images50.fotki.com/v1573/photos/4/28344/7937087/rb005-vi.jpg

[rvo]

so,mrdutchman,how does one go about lightening the triggerpull on said rolling block?i've got me a dremel and i know how to use it....

[Dutchman]

The broken case in the chamber.

http://images53.fotki.com/v1575/photos/4/28344/7940990/DSCF9748rb-vi.jpg

This is a 1/2-20 tap and it wouldn't bite into the case walls enough so I used a 1/2-13 tap.

http://images108.fotki.com/v1583/photos/4/28344/7940990/DSCF9773rb-vi.jpg

Get a little bite on the case and tap it out gently from the muzzle with a rod.

http://images52.fotki.com/v1565/photos/4/28344/7940990/DSCF9777rb-vi.jpg

[Dutchman]

This has got to be the ugliest mainspring I've ever seen.

http://images49.fotki.com/v1489/photos/4/28344/7940990/DSCF9759rb-vi.jpg

Sear notch in the hammer looks good. I'll probably just touch it lightly with a stone.

http://images49.fotki.com/v1489/photos/4/28344/7940990/DSCF9800rb-vi.jpg

I removed the mainspring and trigger spring for work. Put the screws back in so's I won't loose them. I'll blueprint the screws plus the triggerguard screws before reassembly.

http://images44.fotki.com/v1581/photos/4/28344/7940990/DSCF9802rb-vi.jpg

[Dutchman]

Since I was at it I figured what the heck, let's pull the barrel.

The rifle shoots smokeless loads very good, better than blackpowder. But it needs some help. Shorten barrel, recrown, new front sight, new rear sight and... the trigger pull.

There's two ways I know to lighten the trigger pull. Honing the mainspring on a india stone is what I'm now doing to the mainspring and trigger spring. This will ease up some of the pent up stress from all those Swedes yankin' triggers for 140 years. Honing a flat spring to a polished surface decreases spring tension. These rolling blocks have fat heavy mainsprings that are way too much.

The other means is the Frank de Haas (Dutch name) coil spring conversion. I have a couple of his books and will give it a try as its fairly easy. Uses a guide rod and coil spring. I'm sure more experienced rolling block gunsmiths have other tricks they use but I'm handicapped in that area so I'll do what I know will produce some results. Maybe not as much as I'd like... Does that answer you RvO?

I may also try threading a piece of steel stock to mimic a barrel. I've not done that with a rolling block so I may try it. I expect this rifle will remain in pieces for some time so I'll do a little here and there. Its my only 12,7mm rolling block.

http://images49.fotki.com/v1489/photos/4/28344/7940990/DSCF9817rb-vi.jpg

http://images53.fotki.com/v1578/photos/4/28344/7940990/DSCF9821rb-vi.jpg

http://images41.fotki.com/v1580/photos/4/28344/7940990/DSCF9825rb-vi.jpg

[1874Sharps]

Mr. Dutchman,

You have a nice old Rolly, there! Concerning the case separation, I had the exact same thing happen to me on my Dutch Beaumont rifle (I figured you would like the fact that it is Dutch!). The rifle came to me with both dies and a box of OWS black powder ammo. Most of the ammo shot without incident even though accuracy was lousy. Then, all of the sudden I got a case separation just like you had (in fact, it happened on the case in about the same place). I puzzled over what could have caused it while I extracted the stuck forward section of the case in the same manner that you did. I concluded that the cartridge case did not exactly fit the chamber and the burning characteristics of black powder in the bottleneck case caused the case to stretch and separate. When I got some new brass from Buffalo Arms and RMC I loaded it up with a moderate smokeless load to fire-form the cases to the chamber (SAAMI specs of course were yet to be invented). The once-fired brass was then loaded up with black powder and it shot fine. Were your black powder loads in new brass? If so, perhaps loading them in once-fired brass will prevent another case separation as it has for me.

I just have to ask, did you take that avatar picture? Doesn't it get a bit uncomfortable wearing a breastplate everywhere? Just kidding!

[rvo]

hello mrdutchman,
i thought you'd be stoning something,but i wasn't sure what.i'd be vewy interested in the dehaas method,as i have [ahem] rolling blocks and i've noticed that the trigger pull on some is akin to rope-starting a harley.
and to address mr1874sharp's question,as i recall,mrdutchman only wears his breastplate when courting.
hth,
rvo

[Dutchman]

I disassembled the trigger parts today and cleaned and greased them. I spent 2 hours on the trigger spring and mainspring with a rotary tool and coarse India stone trying to iron out all the icky things.

http://images53.fotki.com/v1579/photos/4/28344/7940990/DSCF9836rb2-vi.jpg


http://images51.fotki.com/v178/photos/4/28344/7940990/DSCF9849rb2-vi.jpg

Rolling block assembly pins. My invention today.

http://images50.fotki.com/v399/photos/4/28344/7940990/DSCF9868rb2-vi.jpg

This is the de Haas coil spring conversion. I already have some ideas to make it more complicated than it has to be just because I seem to be good at that.

http://images40.fotki.com/v1332/photos/4/28344/7940990/001b-vi.jpg

[Dutchman]

I had the exact same thing happen to me on my Dutch Beaumont rifle (I figured you would like the fact that it is Dutch!).

Ya'know.. for a Texan you're a real sensitive guy :-o.



Then, all of the sudden I got a case separation just like you had (in fact, it happened on the case in about the same place). I puzzled over what could have caused it while I extracted the stuck forward section of the case in the same manner that you did. I concluded that the cartridge case did not exactly fit the chamber and the burning characteristics of black powder in the bottleneck case caused the case to stretch and separate.

I surmised the diametrical opposite. That the loaded ammo was too long and was forced into the end of the chamber leaving insufficient clearance to release the bullet. I got a pretty good back-puff of gas on the forehead when this one broke apart.


Were your black powder loads in new brass? If so, perhaps loading them in once-fired brass will prevent another case separation as it has for me.

You would have to ask me that, huh? If you look at the first photo of the rifle on the bench at the range you'll see the ammo laying there below the rifle and if you look close you'll see the cases are a little wasp-waisted..... so those were new and hadn't been fireformed yet. But I'm pretty sure those were the ones loaded with 5744 as I took the pictures at the beginning of the session and not the end.. except for the separated case.



I just have to ask, did you take that avatar picture?

Yes, life-like isn't it?


Dutch