Results of First Cast Loads - Success!

[dhaid-06]

I have to brag, and ask a question.

Below are the targets of my first cast bullet loads.

Info:
Rifle: 1903a3 Springfield with as issued iron sights
Range: 100 yards
Case: R-P and Winchester
Bullet: Lee 180 gr RN, tumble lubed, gas checked, sized to .309"
Primer: CCI LR
Powder: 2400, 15.0 gr, 16.0 gr, 17.0 gr, 18.0 gr, 19.0 gr
COL: 3.23
Crimp: light Lee Factory Crimp Die

It looks like the 17 gr. load is the winner. More testing will need to be done to confirm. 5 shots measured 1.3", 4 shots measured 1.1"

The only thing that concern me was the raised primers on most of the cases as shown in the picture. Is that a sign of excessive pressure in this case, or not enough, or is that normal with light cast loads?

Is this cast bullet thing really this easy?

By the way, I sized the COL on this rifle, but I also brought my 1917 Enfield along and they wouldn't chamber in that one. So if I need a universal .30-06 I need to do some more experimenting.

I am planning on using these for CMP matches, now I need to test them for 200 yards (that's what my local CMP match is shot at).

Thanks for looking.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee36/dhaid-06/9-7-09150.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee36/dhaid-06/9-7-09160.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee36/dhaid-06/9-7-09170.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee36/dhaid-06/9-7-09180.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee36/dhaid-06/9-7-09190.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee36/dhaid-06/P1140534.jpg

[garandsrus]

Dhaid,

Nice shooting... It looks like you were able to use some accumulated knowledge to speed your learning curve, which is what this site is all about. Sometimes you just get lucky also.

The 03-A3 is a pretty good cast rifle and I really enjoy shooting mine.

John

[jtaylor1960]

I'm sure ther are others here will also comment on the primers.But my opinion is that is caused by low pressure combined with a little headspace.The firing pin forces the case foward away from the bolt and when it ignites the primer goes back to the bolt as it is not supported.You should try not to push back the shoulder when resizing your cases so they will fit the chamber better. Seating the bullet into the rifiling could help force the case back against the bolt and help fireform a case that will fit the chamber.With higher pressure loads this headspace could cause blown primers ruptured cases and worse.

[AJ Peacock]

Primers look like too low pressure. In most loads, a primer will be set back against the bolt as the pressure in the cartridge rises, then the case will be expanded back to the bolt and will reseat the primer. In the low pressure loads, sometimes the cartridge doesn't expand and reseat the primer. Was there any soot around the case neck? Sometimes you see that at the same time with low pressure loads.

Jtaylor is correct, in that this will appear more when you are a bit looser on the headspace.

Good Job,

AJ

[jhrosier]

I have found that primer setback with low pressure rifle loads can often be eliminated by using large pistol primers.
Use caution because a high pressure load will puncture the pistol primers and release gas into the action.

Jack

[dhaid-06]

The necks are clean as a whistle.

If I neck size only next time will this solve the problem, because the case shoulder will be farther up?

If I resize the same way i did this time in the future, does it look like anything dangerous could happen?

This has never happened with full power loads, but on second thought I have only shot Greek HXP in it with crimped primers.

Thanks,


Thanks for the help.

[AJ Peacock]

Neck size will help, but with such low power loads, you may not be stretching the brass fully to begin with. So it may continue to happen. Repeatedly sizing too short and stretching, will cause 'incipient case head seperation', I don't think you have to worry about that with such low pressures (as long as you don't over size them).

Are your cases and chamber clean? Is the chamber smooth? if not, it can hold the brass with lower pressure and won't reseat the primers.

AJ

[RoyRogers]

I'd neck size and then load up some of the HXP brass you've fired in that gun. The HXP brass will already be fire formed to your chamber. I found some HXP brass to need trimming after the initial firing but it reloads well otherwise.

Another trick when using lower pressure pistol powder loads in rifle cases is to drill out the falsh hole a bit larger. This will stop primer backouts most of the time. If you go that route make sure you NEVER fire full power loads in those cases - mark them and keep them separate for lead bullet pistol powder loads only. Also, not all pistol powder loads in rifle cases are low pressure so don't use drilled cases for full house pistol powder loads either.

[zomby woof]

I use the same boolit and process as you do, only I'm at 20 grains of 2400 and get the same primers backed out a little. I'm not worried. I've shot hundreds this summer with the same brass.

[Maven]

Targets 3 & 4 are impressive, all the more so since you're new to this affliction!

[Doble Troble]

I'd want to spend some more time with that 18 gr load. But nice work at 100 yds!

I've seen primers back out like that with light loads, but don't remember specifics.

Are your CMP matches Garand matches? I wonder how your loads would to in a Garand.

[dhaid-06]

I'd want to spend some more time with that 18 gr load. But nice work at 100 yds!

I've seen primers back out like that with light loads, but don't remember specifics.

Are your CMP matches Garand matches? I wonder how your loads would to in a Garand.

I agree, I am going to test 16, 17, 18, and 19 again. 16 looks like I pulled left and right, no vertical seperation hardly at all. 18.0 looks pretty good too.

The CMP matches are M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, and Vintage Bolt Action. I'm not sure what they would do in a Garand, but and pretty sure they wouldn't cycle the action.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

Nice going! :D

How was the wind that day? Any gusting at all?

Take another look at your 16gr load target; there's practically no vertical stringing, except for the one possible flier.

Your 17gr target is a pretty nice group, with very little vertical stringing.

The vertical stringing is a key item to finding what your rifle "likes" to shoot best. Minor fluctuations in powder measuring will have less effect when you're in that "sweet spot" than it will if you are not.

I would try shooting some 10-rd groups of loads at 16.2gr, 16.5gr, and 16.8gr to see how they do.

If you are just neck sizing, your beginning case volume will be greater than last time, so pressures will likely be a tad lower than when you full-length resized.

[qajaq59]

I have to bragdhaid-06..... If those are your first cast bullets I say you go right ahead and brag. Looks good to me.

[dhaid-06]

dhaid-06..... If those are your first cast bullets I say you go right ahead and brag. Looks good to me.

They are my first, and definately not my last!

[Big Boomer]

Very nice shooting! Also very good advice in the above posts that cover all the potential problems.

Years ago the late Bob Milek (think that is how his name is spelled), writer for Guns & Ammo, wrote an article that cleared up some problems for me. In the article he stated that when sizing dies are made, the cutter can potentially be run up into the die too far or not far enough. If not far enough and the die mouth is adjusted down against the shell holder, the shoulder can be pushed back too far and a headspace problem is encountered.

As it happened, I was having that exact problem. My set of Lyman .30-06 dies were pushing the shoulder back too far and were bad enough that I was experiencing hang-fires in my Win. M670. I could hear the firing pin hit the primer ... then the delayed firing would occur. I read and re-read the instructions that came in the box with the dies and knew I was doing it properly ... until I read Milek's article. I started over with different brass and sized only to the shoulder and quit. That ended the problem. I'm still using that same sizing die but now I know how to use it and not follow the usual box instructions.

After all these years, I still have and am using that same brass. As noted above, you can seat the boolits out so as to keep the case head against the bolt and iron out the shoulders of brass that may have been sized too much as I was doing. 'Tuck

[RU shooter]

Good work on those targets and with your first cast loads! With those last couple targets the SR targets at 200 will be no problem. And we expect to see a pic of your 20 rd slow prone target!!!! Go show those other guys on the line what a homemade lead boolit zipping out at half the speed of their loads will do! You get the best "evil looks" from the black rifle shooters!

Tim

[geargnasher]

+1 on low pressure/headspace causing backed-out primers. High pressure will flatten primers perfectly flush with the case head and emboss them with the machine marks from the bolt face. Neck size only (or use the regular sizing die but only run the case into it until just before the shoulder touches the die) from now on and use that brass only in that gun, the problem should diminish as the brass gets swaged to the chamber, may take several firings with loads that light. You may shoot some factory full-house j-word stuff and just use that brass, neck sized only, for your cast loads afterward. The higher pressure loads are sure to stretch the brass to match the headspace.

Gear