A contender afternoon

[part_timer]

I'm going to start this by saying that I'm not much of a handgun shooter. I've hunted with one a few times but I've never been what I'd call comfortable with one. So this afternoon I decided to get the contender out and see if I could make it work with the new carbine load I developed for my encore rifle.

I'm shooting a group buy copy of a 358627 over 17gr of H110 with wolf small rifle mag primers. My contender is a 10" 357 mag that a buddy fo mine reamed out to Max. The bbl. has the shot shell choke and the porting.

I will say that there is quite a bit of recoil but no where near as bad as I thought it would be. We were shooting at 25 yards using the back of a lawn chair as a rest. By the end of our boolit box, groups were hovering in the 2"-2 1/2" range. Not to shabby for a first run.

My son (16 years old) just plain wasn't able to handle the recoil yet. He has never shot a pistol of that kind and I think he was a bit intimidated. I know one time he didn't get the pistol closed all the way and he flinched so bad I thought he was going to drop it.

I went inside and got out my 10" 256 bbl and let him shoot a couple of hundered rounds out of it to get used to shooting a pistol. He is still shooting at some rotten zuchinnie so I'm going back out to see how things are going.

UPDATE Zac has given up on the pistol for today and gone back to his 358 win. for making yard salad. I'm going out to shoot the .256.

Anyway it has been a great afternoon shooting with the kid. I'm hoping my daughter will come out after awhile.
Tom

[dale2242]

part timer, Now you are talking a bout one of my favorite handguns. I have 10 or so barrels and 3 frames. 22rf to 444 Marlin. 22 hornet and 223 will shoot MOA groups. 444 is my power house, pushing 265 gr bullets at 1800+ fps. I have been hunting quail and grouse with the 44 Hot Shot barrel. It`s got to be one of the most versatile handguns going. Let`s hear from other Tender shooters about their favorite calibers and how they shoot ....dale

[jack19512]

I don't mean to hijack the op's thread but I was going to ask questions about the contender pistol as I am thinking about getting one and read this thread. I have never shot the contender or even handled one but it seems to me it would be quite handy with the barrels available.

I sure would appreciate reading from those who have them what they think concerning the contender pistols. If I had one I would probably like to start with the 223, 44 mag, 454 Casull, and the 357 barrels. I have no idea what it would be like to shoot one of my favorite calibers the 45/70 with one of these.

[jhrosier]

... I have no idea what it would be like to shoot one of my favorite calibers the 45/70 with one of these.

Not much fun.[smilie=b:

I fired twenty rounds through mine. If nobody was watching I would have stopped at five rounds.
With the "muzzle tamer", the gun comes right straight back and pretty much ruins your wrist. Figure on a day's of pain for each round fired.

The two most useful and fun calibers in a Contender are .22LR and .357 Magnum.
If I was hunting with it, I would go with the .44 Magnum.

Jack

[No_1]

Jack,
All the calibers you have chosen are great calibers for the Contender. The only one I would add would be a .22 LR.
Please read up on barrels. There is lots of info out in web land. Some have great sucess with factory barrels but that has not been the case for me.

Robert

[No_1]

Oh yeah,

A 45-70 at full throttle in a 16", ~5 lb. carbine is no joke. There is a saying: "If your gonna be dumb, you better be tough". Do not get me wrong as I am not saying that anyone who wants to shoot that type of rifle is dumb (I have one) but they better be real tough.

Robert

[jack19512]

Some have great sucess with factory barrels but that has not been the case for me.







I am interested in your opinion if you would care to elaborate. I do understand that this would be just your personal experience and no reflection on others opinions. You can pm me if it is something you do not want to post on the forum. All opinions are important to me.

[jack19512]

Also, I would probably just leave the 45/70 shooting to my Marlin 1895 CB. :)

[part_timer]

Well by the end of 100 rounds I had the 256 shooting 1.5" at 50 yards with j-bullets. There is salad all over the yard. I need to scope the pistols, Im having a problem with the sights on the short bbls.

Jack, I like my carbines a lot. 7.62x39, and 357max (x2) in rifle length and 357max, 256, 223and 45/410 in pistol length. I'm considering one of the TCU family as a next purchase or a 410 shotgun bbl. I also like the shorter 10" bbls than the 14" for what it is worth.

I've been lucky with Fox Ridge Outfitters latley. I know some haven't but I'd buy from them again.

[jh45gun]

I have an Encore that had a 308 barrel I could not afford to keep it and buy my Uberti 45 Colt so the 308 barrel got traded off. No big loss as the 5 deer I shot with it were all under 50 yards most 30 yards or less. I bought a 45 colt/410 barrel and now I wish that would have been the first barrel I bought. What a fun barrel to have. Looking forward to shooting some grouse and squirrels with the 410.


After I put Williams Fiber Optic Slugger sights on the rib to improve the primative notch rear sight and bead front sight the barrel shoots 45 Colts right in the bullseye at 25 yards. Big improvement and any one who has one of these barrels the thirty dollars for the sights is really worth it.

[dbldblu]

I have a 45 Win Mag contender barrel. Since it headspaces off of the case mouth, they have to chamber it correctly. In 44 mag or another revolver cartridge, they do not. A common complaint with contender barrels chambered for revolver cartridges is sloppy chambers.

[Frank]

no_1 says
A 45-70 at full throttle in a 16", ~5 lb. carbine is no joke.
Why go full throttle? Can't you find an accurate load at lower velocity in the Contender?

[45r]

I've been shooting 185GC boolits out of my new 12 inch 357 mag barrel and getting 1 to 2 inch groups at 50 yards with Vitt N-110 going 1 and a quarter inch and 2400 going around 2 inch and not much luck with 296 or lil'gun.I think it would do better but T/C put a long .4 inch cone shaped throat on this barrel.If I had to do it again I'd get a barrel from some other maker like SSK Ind. that knows what they're doing.Someday I might have SSK,Bellm or somebody else rechamber it to 357 Max if it don't cost too much.The T/C barrels shoot J-word bullets OK but only barely good enough with cast.The most accurate barrel I have is a 7mm TCU barrel that will shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards with sierra bullets and Vitt-133.My 40-44 JDJ wildcat will do almost as good with Hornady 200's and Vitt N-110.

[wallenba]

I
I sure would appreciate reading from those who have them what they think concerning the contender pistols. If I had one I would probably like to start with the 223, 44 mag, 454 Casull, and the 357 barrels. I have no idea what it would be like to shoot one of my favorite calibers the 45/70 with one of these.

Jack it's a GREAT gun, I have .22LR, 44 mag., 30 Herrett (that I don't use anymore) and a 7-30 Waters. Mines an older model Super 14. If you like to take your time having fun, this is the gun.

[No_1]

I am interested in your opinion if you would care to elaborate. I do understand that this would be just your personal experience and no reflection on others opinions. You can pm me if it is something you do not want to post on the forum. All opinions are important to me.

Jack, the TC barrels of past were known to have chamber issues such as being off-center, bad headspace, little or no thoats. Some of the issues could be easily fixed but some of the issues were just not fixable. I have a couple factory barrels still on hand that shoot great as is but the rest are custom built or factory barrels that have been re-chambered. If you wish to discuss this further please contact me via PM and we can go from there.


no_1 says
Why go full throttle? Can't you find an accurate load at lower velocity in the Contender?

Just because we can? All joking aside. Great loads can be found with reduced pressures using powders like 2400, unique and others but somtimes we need to take something to the limit just to see what happens......

[JSH]

I can't add much to any of the above, as most are the same as my findings.
I have a 14" 30-30 barrel and a 10" 30-20 that are both good CB shooters. The 30-20 took a bit more effort than the 30-30 to get it to a point I was happy with.
I have a 35 rem R that has been an excellent CB shooter right out of the gate. It shoots squib loads to full tilt just as good
The 357 was fair at moderate velocitites. The harder I pushed it the better it shot.
TC's can be a challenge to master at times.
jeff

[Dragon 31]

I have a number of Encore and Contender sit ups.
1 Blue frame Encore with a stainless steel 26 inche 7 mag barrel.
1 Blue frame Encore with a blue 26 inch 300 mag barrel.
1 Stainless Encore frame with a 24 inch Stainless .308 winchester barrel.
1 Blue Encore frame with a 24 Blue SMI custom Smokeless power Muzzleloading barrel
1 Blue frame Encore with a blue 24 inch .357 Max barrel.
1 Blue frame Encore with a 24 inch blue 7-08 barrel.
1 Blue frame Contender G-2 with a stainless 23 inch .357 Max barrel
1 Stainless Contender frame with a blue super 14 inch 7-30 Waters barrel
1 Stainless Contender frame with a blue Super 14 inch 30-30 barrel.
1 Blue Contender frame with a blue Super 14 inch .357 Max barrel.
1 Blue Contender frame with a 10 inch .357 mag barrel.
1 Blue Contender frame with a 10 inch .44 mag barrel.
Additionally I have a 24 inch blue, rifled 20 gauge slug Encore barrel, another 26 inch Encore stainless 7mm mag barrel, a 14 inch .223 Contender barrel (that I cut down from 21 inches) a Encore stainless 24 inch black powder Muzzle loading barrel, and a Gonic Arms 15 inch .45 cal Contender Muzzzle loading barrel.
Of all of these barrels only the .223 barrel would not shoot less that 6 in at 100 yard at any length, powder or bullet combination. The 20 ga would do OK but not great and I tried a lot of different slugs. The SMI is very good and has now been taken over by my spouse and I just get to shoot it once in a while. The .357 cal in either the Max or Mag will shoot much better than I can. The rifles shoot well but none of them will do better that one of my Remington 700's in the same caliber. The .44 mag can be a hand full with full house .44 Keith loads and will do as well but not better than my Ruger .44 Redhawk and or SBH Hunter. I think the Thompsons are interesting to shoot and I've taken a number of deer with them. I would recommend everyone try one but they are not perfect.

[Gunfixer]

I either have or have had, 22lr, 22hornet 22 K hornet,222,223,256,30-30, 30-30 AI, 35rem,375win, 375 JDJ,41mag, 44 mag , 444, and 45-70. The only one I had a problem with was the 41. Tried everything in the book then rerwrote the book. Still shot 8"@25yds. Sent it to T/C and they responded with " the rifling is not cut correctly". They replaced the barrel, but at the time 41 was not available so I got the 375 win. All the other barrels will shoot. If I cant get one hole with 5 shots @ 100 (off bags& bench), time to try something different. Bullet seating depth plays a LARGE part I have found.

[Frank]

no 1 replied
Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank
no_1 says
Why go full throttle? Can't you find an accurate load at lower velocity in the Contender?

Just because we can? All joking aside. Great loads can be found with reduced pressures using powders like 2400, unique and others but somtimes we need to take something to the limit just to see what happens......


I'm not talking about reduced pressure loads, but the loads the gun groups best. Does the Contender do best at the top end? Why burn up the barrel and the shooter if a slower load does better? What happens that you are looking for? Big groups? Carpel Tunnel syndrome? What will it do that that the same boolit at 1200-1400 fps won't do. Impress the wife? Let's see some targets, groups and show me what the hot load does. :Fire: You've been challenged. Now you have to respond.

[part_timer]

Frank
I had a 375 winchester that required full power loads to get it to group. I tried every thing in the book but that is what it took. My 256 seems to be the same way. More is better sometimes because it has to be.

[Frank]

part-timer said
Frank
More is better sometimes because it has to be.
Rarely in a 45/70.

[part_timer]

I don't have a 45/70 in a contender but I have shot a couple. Yes it is a bit stout but not real bad, at least in the rifle but the pistol is in a whole different catagory. The one I always thought would be bad was the 416 rigby in the encore.

[canyon-ghost]

:coffeecom I'm a guy with a plate in one wrist, not from shooting but, industrial stuff. I find that factory ammo and jacketed bullets are just never right in my pistols. I shot the .357 with factory, stout on the palm of my hand. It stung and wouldn't hit much at 100 meters from a 10" barrel.
The .22 Hornet, that's a whole 'nother story! I started reloading and casting lead with this one, match barrel and VXII. It shoots to 3/4" at 100 with V-Max, and about 1&1/2" at 100 meters with anything else! I even shot milk jugs full of water at 200 meters although it takes a 10 or 12" nosedive. It's just easy, fun and relaxing. The guys tell me that my barrel has a short throat. I suspect that in the last several years TC has been trying to correct that chamber problem. Every factory barrel I have is chambered short, really tight. Custom shop barrels are even closer on space.
The 7mmTCU shooting lead, now there's one with the recoil below a .357. I had to ask some questions to find a Lyman 135 grain bullet load for it but, it goes onto paper at 200. Neat, at 100 yards it's always on! I've seen it shoot jacketed to 300 from a 14" barrel with amazing accuracy.

I love my old silhouette pistols with classic calibers, they shouldn't discontinue squat for modernization- there's just not enough experimenters coming up with American innovations for that.

[Frank]

I agree. The 45/70 in a pistol, any pistol, takes work.

[No_1]

Frank,

You challenge me on what?

Robert


no 1 replied

I'm not talking about reduced pressure loads, but the loads the gun groups best. Does the Contender do best at the top end? Why burn up the barrel and the shooter if a slower load does better? What happens that you are looking for? Big groups? Carpel Tunnel syndrome? What will it do that that the same boolit at 1200-1400 fps won't do. Impress the wife? Let's see some targets, groups and show me what the hot load does. :Fire: You've been challenged. Now you have to respond.

[No_1]

Frank,

First off, pay attention to the thread and EVERYTHING written in it, not just the stuff you want to see.

This thread started off with a member talking about having a great day shooting his contender with his kid then Dale popped in indicating his experience. It was hijacked by Jack indicating he was interested in Contenders stating what calibers he would like to start with and ending his thread saying "I have no idea what it would be like to shoot one of my favorite calibers the 45/70 with one of these" at which point I popped in with my words of wisdome :mrgreen: then followed my post with another indicating "A 45-70 at full throttle in a 16", ~5 lb. carbine is no joke. There is a saying: "If your gonna be dumb, you better be tough". Do not get me wrong as I am not saying that anyone who wants to shoot that type of rifle is dumb (I have one) but they better be real tough." From there people chimmed in with their experience. At some point you got lost along the trail because you obviously you did not understand what I was saying.

Now to your challenge. I have read and re-read this thread trying to figure out where you are coming from with your challenge. If you challenge is to provide proof that full power loads give the best accuracy then I suggest you gather your components and head to the range for some testing because I have no intentions of submitting my body to that kind of abuse to prove / disprove something you may or may not already know. I have done my testing.

For the record I have a few 45-70's in which I have shot loads consisting of everything from a few grains of bullseye pushing a round ball in my Ruger #3 to more grains of 4198 than should be allowed by law pushing a 500 GR GC boolit in a ~10lb. Siamese Mauser and have found that my best accuracy and most enjoyable shooting comes from reduced power / velocity loads. That is right, trap door speeds are fine for me and my body thank you very much.

Now we are to the part of my post where I challenge you and my challenge to you is for you to pay attention. Read, re-read, understand, think then respond. Don't stop reading and respond if you have not read and understood what was written because you may miss something that causes a response like the one you directed to me. When you want to quote someone don't use the part that suites your needs, use all of it and If you don't understand what someone has posted then ask a clarifing question. I never said full power loads are the way to go, that full power loads give the best accuracy or that full power loads in a contender carbine produced anything besides discomfort. I see where you quoted PART of my post where I said full power loads were no joke. My intention with that post and I believe most readers got it the way I intended was that full power loads in a ~5lb Contender carbine were not pleasant.


Robert

[rugerman1]

Rob-bob,don't feed the trolls

[Frank]

part-timer started the thread. We just finished it up.

no 1: You need to relax. I was just trying to get you, or anybody, to show me groups where a heavily loaded 45/70 is the most accurate. I remember Joe at Real Guns did research, and I tried his loads. Yeah, they were high end, but it was always pie plate groups, which is what bothered me most. Not the recoil. I can handle recoil. It doesn't bother me.

[Frank]

rugerman 1 says
Rob-bob,don't feed the trolls

Why are you here? Are you interested in Contenders or 45/70? :violin:

[No_1]

Frank,

This is not about finishing up a thread or me relaxing. This is about you TOTALLY hi-jacking away from contenders into a discussion on 45-70 accuracy then you twisting words to suite your needs so you can post a "challenge". Just for you I have started a thread so you can discuss the 45-70 in all it's glory. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=663740#post663740

Robert



If you want to start a thread about
part-timer started the thread. We just finished it up.

no 1: You need to relax. I was just trying to get you, or anybody, to show me groups where a heavily loaded 45/70 is the most accurate. I remember Joe at Real Guns did research, and I tried his loads. Yeah, they were high end, but it was always pie plate groups, which is what bothered me most. Not the recoil. I can handle recoil. It doesn't bother me.

[part_timer]

Today I made up a few more boolits and started shooting at 50 yards. I'm able to hit a half gallon jug at this range. I didn't have to much time as the daughter wanted to shoot her carbine this afternoon. (see thread in single shot section)

Hopefully this week I'll be able to get a bit more shooting in, I am having fun though. Every time I start shooing one of the kids come out with the firearm of their choice and we end up shooting a coupel of boxes of ammo. Man I love having a 50 yard range in the back yard.

[jack19512]

It was hijacked by Jack







Well, excuse me! :hijack: I apologize to the OP, hijacking his thread was not my intent. I was going to post my interest about this very subject when I came upon this thread, I just thought it fit right in with the OP's subject and would have liked to hear his and others opinions concerning this. Stupid me, I thought that was what we were all here for, to swap ideas and things we have learned. I don't think I have ever started a thread what didn't get side stepped by someone but I have never come down on anyone for it. Life is just too short for that. :sad:

[jack19512]

I don't mean to hijack the op's thread but I was going to ask questions about the contender pistol as I am thinking about getting one and read this thread. I have never shot the contender or even handled one but it seems to me it would be quite handy with the barrels available.

I sure would appreciate reading from those who have them what they think concerning the contender pistols. If I had one I would probably like to start with the 223, 44 mag, 454 Casull, and the 357 barrels. I have no idea what it would be like to shoot one of my favorite calibers the 45/70 with one of these.






It could just be my ignorance but I fail to see anything wrong with my post. I will immediately exit this thread as I don't wish to offend anyone else. Also, I really don't think I had anything to do with the p*****g contest going on.

[carpetman]

No1---I fail to see where there was any hijacking. The thread is a Contender afternoon. Jack and Frank both were on topic as they were talking CONTENDERS as in the topic title. Read posts #3, #12, and #19. I took his you have been challenged as his way of saying he'd like to see the results so he understood what you were talking about---not a threat,insult or anything that should upset anybody. If you are desperate to moderate something Junior 1942 gets insulted,threatened and everything else and a bunch of such posts still exist---should be deleted.

[Frank]

no 1 says
Just for you I have started a thread so you can discuss the 45-70 in all it's glory.

Great. I'll go have a look. :cool:

[part_timer]

Hi-jack away. This thread was started with the intent of all things contender/encore. I'm having a great time shooting them with the kids and thought I'd share.

I've seen several places where folks don't like them but to be honest I've never had a problem with any of the ones I have. Even the BBLs from Fox Ridge have been great. I'm considering ordering another one. My only problem with them is that it takes 12 weeks or so to get one. I'm considering a carbine in 256 win mag.

[Combat Diver]

part timer,

I also have one of the 10" TC barrels in .357 Mag with the choke and ports. My youngest (will be 16 tomorrow) likes shooting it also. I like shooting Speer shotcapsuls out of it in .38 SPL as the pattern stays around 4" at 15yds (I keep it to the irons sights). My other barrel is a 14" in .41 Mag. I got that used around 1989 and have a Simmons 2x20 scope on it. Still would like to get a .22LR, .223 and 6.8 SPC bbls for the frame. My son and I try and shoot about twice a week on the 25m range in the backyard when I'm home. Don't get to shoot with my oldest as he's on his thrid tour in Iraq (just missed seeing him there in Jul as I came north to Astan)

[Rafe Covington]

I have 4 tender and 5 encore frames, have about 6 tender and 12 encore barrels. I can only say I have a 17 in 45-70 encore barrel, I shoot 400 gr cast at about 1300 fps. It has some recoil but is not uncomforable to shoot, you have to remember we decimated 100,000,000 buffalo with rifles shooting lead bullets at about 1200 to 1400 fos.. In my opinion with the 45-70 it is bullet diameter as much as velocity in killing game. JMHO :drinks:

buffalohunter

[buckweet]

i have a super 14 in 7mmtcu. i really like it.alot.

[part_timer]

I like shooting the 7 tcu, I'd like to have on in a 21"bbl. I think the 218bee would be fun as well.
Thanks to a thread by stubshaft we took and circumsized our Maximum bbl down to 6" so were working up some new loads. All I can say is WOW there is a lot of muzzle flash. I figure we can shoot and cook our deer this year at the same time.

Any suggestions on a good powder to use for such a short bbl? I"m using H110 with a 215gr boolit right now.