FN 5.7x308

[BT Sniper]

Here is some of my progress on my latest project. 308 bullets from 5.7x28 brass. Cut the shoulder off the brass. 100 grain core gave me 155 grain bullet. Used CH dies. Don't think I could get over 170-180 grains with the dies. I was able to bore out the ejection pin to lengthen the nose (difficult to get a seemless transition from nose end of die to bored out pin). Also got a flat pin for the flat points. The base rolled over nicely to give it a bit of a boat tail I guess you could call it.

Have not shot them yet as the dies I got made .312 bullets (303 caliber marked .308) even after reducing the 5.7 to .307 so be sure and always check specs of your your dies.

More to come.

Good shooting,

BT Sniper

[littlejack]

Brian:
Very nice work.
If you need someone to test the .312 bullets, I shoot a model 44 7.62x54 carbine. I have sporterized it and with Hornaday .312 150 grain sp's, it will do 1.25" groups at 100 yards.
I would love to test those out.
Jack

[BT Sniper]

May take you up on that offer. I'll keep you in mind.

Thanks

[BT Sniper]

Managed to fix the transition of the nose with a quick touch of steel wool. Also seated a flat nose in a 30-30 just for looks. I think it is going to work pretty well.

[littlejack]

Looks like it was custom made for that 30-30.
Com'on brian, send me some to try out in my MN. They look great.
Jack

[BT Sniper]

I'm working on it. Just sent the .310 core seating die to be replaced for the correct size .307ish core seating die. Allso ordered the correct size .308 swage die so I will be able to make both 312 and 308 bullets.

Anybody think a .004 bump up from the 308 core seating die to .312 swage die will be a problem?

It will be a couple weeks.

BT

[wonderwolf]

Looks great, I was pondering this today while looking at the amount of 5.7 brass I have and thinking about a RN 170gr bullet for my 300 WM by expanding the neck up instead of cutting it off. What size core are you using?

Are these the pistol dies CH offers? Your bullets look like your getting a bit of a spire point with them and for the 30-30 a flat point, Is that left over from the core seating? You've peaked my curiosity on this now.

[BT Sniper]

Yes they are made from the CH 308 dies. The flat nose pictured in the 30-30 is generaly what you will produce. I took the ejection rod and hollowed it out with the drill press and dremmil tool to match the conture shape to form a spitzer. Could also just bevel the ejection rod to get a nice round nose as well. I don't know what the factory parts are like as I make all my own interial parts for the dies. There is a limit as to how long a bullet these dies will make but 170 should be possible.

For the core standard 1/4" lead wire works great. I drilled some 1/4" holes in some AL and made a core mold.

Necking up is possible with the 5.7s. I would do it first then anneal the entire case.

You can see the core seated jacket in the middle of the picture on the left posted above.

I plan on trying them out in my 300 WM as soon as I get some put together.

Good shooting

BT

[wonderwolf]

Let me know how they work out for you in your 300 WM. At almost $0.50 for some SP hunting bullets in the heavier weights I'm watching your ideas with great interest. Shame the 300 WM has such a short OAL you could use the filler balls corbin offers to make a "ballistic tip" and seat them way out (if you could achieve the heavier weights). I'll cross section the base of a 5.7 case to see how much meat is there...I can't get lathe turned boat tail out of my head.

[BT Sniper]

Got my replacment die today and all is well. Hope to get some bullets together and shooting this weekend.

This swaging bullets hobby sure has a lot of learning to be done when you are putting things together from scratch. I have alot of helpfull info for any of you with the CH 308 dies and attempting to use the 5.7x28 for a jacket.

To start with if you use an untrimed case that you neck up to give you OD of .308ish it will yeld a jacket that is too long to be formed in the swage die. A slight amount of the base of the bullet will not be forced into the die and may end up oversized. You might be able to make it work if the jacket was compressed somewhat in the core seating step. Overwise skip the whole necking up step and just cut them off at the shoulder. This gives me a 155 grain bullet that I feel is almost max for these dies.

I made a rough jacket sizing die and wouldn't you know it the jackets exit right at .308. I always seem to be polishing off just a bit to much. I would have rather them exit just a bit smaller. Amazing what only 1 thousands can do.

A fun little trick though that I found to be pretty cool is a plastic tip from the airsoft 6mm BBs. Just like you had in mind. It worked very well. I had used this with my 44s and the 10mm BBs but have not got around to shooting them. Probably cheeper then the corbins. With the core seated .2 or so below the end of the jacket the 6mm BB takes up just the right amount of space when forming the nose. Now if I play around with the core seating punch I should be able to form some what of a hollow cavity for that BB to fill and then it should act as a wedge when it expands.

Yes I have though alot about a lathe turned boat tail. Though I would do it a bit different. If you look at the pics above I was able to squish the rim pretty good into a round shape. What I am thinking is to simply turn the rim diameter down till it matches the size of the extracter grove. Then I will bore out the base puch of the core seating step to form a boat tail so they will all be the same and will not have to worry so much about making them all the same on the lathe. I'll give it a try and see what happens.

More to report later. Hopfully some shooting results. Really don't think this set up is going to produce the heavy weight bullets we may be looking for but it should be a great 308 or 30-30 bullet and certainly alot of fun out of the big magnums.

BT

[BT Sniper]

My 300 WM has a new barrel installed from HS precsion. It must have alot of free bore or erosion because I can not get to the lands until I seat the bullet atleast 1/2" over the standard 3.14". The 300 WM looks pretty mean when the COL is in the 3.6" range:)

Still shoots less then 1 MOA out to atleast 300 yrds as I just got back from range last week and got 2.5" at 300 yrds with it (Nosler 180 grain BTs with RL22). If these home made bullets can go under 1.5 moa I may be tempted to use them this year for hunting.

[bohica2xo]

Brian:

I have left the cases full length, and formed nearly closed HP's with some sucess - usually 173 grains when done. It would depend on your dies of course. An 8S ogive will need a longer jacket than a 6S.

It will be interesting to see how they shoot for you, I have only shot them through the belt fed guns.

B.

[BT Sniper]

CH dies?

[BT Sniper]

Pretty sure a full case will make a good jacket using a different die. I'll have to experiment some more.

[BT Sniper]

I recall a discusion on casting boolits vs. swaging bullets a while back. I didn't look much at it but I would certainly think casting boolits has got to have less difficulties then trying to get a new design perfected by swaging.

It seems this 5.7x308 project is giving me a challenge. Probably no more then any other bullet made from a brass case that I have perfected but I deffinatly have good and bad days in this hobby.

So lets see..... I have come to the conclusion that I cannot relably get more then 155 grains out of a 5.7 case and the CH dies. Even at this weight the base of the bullet is just barly inside the end of the die. This is with the extrater grove completly compresed in the core seating step. It makes it difficult that the force is applied to start pointing the nose before the base of the bullet even enters the die. Leads to dinged up base punches.

After this evenings difficulties I look up at the pics of the previous bullets and think they look pretty good what did I do different. Oh well I get it figured out again.

I do have some more dies given to me by a kind member of this sight that I will attempt some heavier bullets with in the 5.7 case. One of them an old SAS still worked great and did a wonderfull job of core seating the 5.7x308.

Will keep you guys posted. May be able to get a few threw the barell soon I hope.

Good shooting

BT

[wonderwolf]

I think you might be right with staying around 150-155gr for a RN bullet, at least for use in the 300wm. Most rifles will have a 1:10 twist and should work well with that weight. What is the percentage of bearing surface to length with the first ones you made (if you have some left)?

[BT Sniper]

The one pictured above is 155 grains as I remember. Looks Like it might be a 4S ogive if that much. So still a pretty good amount of bearing surface.

[BT Sniper]

IT CAN BE DONE!

Finally got some great looking heavy bullets from the 5.7 case. Even turned the rim down just to show what it would look like. Weight is about 173 grain (thanks B). Used a set of old SAS dies (thanks Phil) and if I'm lucky I may get to try them out this year hunting season.

Imagine the headline.... Large mule deer and bull elk taken with 5.7x28 case! Don't want to jinx myself but it would be a good story.

Here is some pics.

Factory Sierra .308 175 grain match king and Sierra .338 300 grain MK also pictured for reference along side the 5.7x28 case and my next project the .338x223 or the .338x30 carbine bullet.

Also some light 80-100 grain 308s I put together from cut off top of 5.7 case nest to the 175 grain MK

Thanks for the help guys with the many helpfull posts in the prievious year. Can only hope to continue to inspire.

Good shooting

Brian

[BT Sniper]

Almost forgot the best pic of them all :grin:

Hope my 300 WM likes them.

[acemedic13]

Thats impressive man. I am going to get these out to you. I finally got it all boxed up. let me know what's up.

[bohica2xo]

You are closing in on it Brian, those bullets look great.

You should be able to form that BT shape on the 5.7 brass if that is what you want. Just do it in a simple die before you reduce the case. If you build the die right, your punch should remove the shoulder & neck at the same time. Of course you will need to make a base punch to match the BT for your core seat & point dies.

What sort of .429 bullets are you offering on 40 S&W brass these days?

B.

[BT Sniper]

Thanks Joel, I'll get some bullets out to you this week. You'll be getting some of these 308s by years end too.

B,

I'll have put some thought into it. I know I can make the BT punch but would sure like to remove the rim first.

Just bored out my core mold to get the correct weight to make the 175ish grian bullet that the 5.7 jacket will form.

Are you looking for some 44s I have a lot. Or would you like to see some of the reccent designs, or do you have somthing in mind.

BT

[BT Sniper]

Short on time but got some results from these bullets today.

Posted them here http://ammobrasstrader.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=5157&page=1#Item_2

[wonderwolf]

Short on time but got some results from these bullets today.

Posted them here http://ammobrasstrader.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=5157&page=1#Item_2

Hmmm no dice for me, have to have an account I guess.

[BT Sniper]

I'll post pics tonight

[BT Sniper]

Here is some pics. Shot a few different makes of bullets, all 180 grains into some wet newspaper. Also tested teh 5.7x308 176 grain bullet for accuracy. I was suprised that it shot as well as the factory offerings out of my 300 WM. Usually the Nosler BTs will shoot under 1" all day long @ 100 and usually .75 is the norm. I was able to get a .75" 3 shot group @125 yrds today with my custom bullet. It was a bit sensitive to different loads as this group was 2 grains under max. 2 grains less gave me a 2" group and max was nearly 3".

The weight retained was avarage 50% but the wound channel in the wet newspaper was impressive. Probably make a great deer bullet but not for elk. I do think the 5.7 brass has thiner walls then the factory bullet jackets.

Here is the numbers

All bullets 180 grains, 50 yrds saturated newspaper, 2900-3000fps from 300 WM.

Nosler AC bound = 123 grains 16" penitration
Nolser BT = 100 grains 15"
BT's 5.7x308 = 88 grians 14"
Hornaday SST = lost core did not weigh 13"
Serria spitzer BT = 96 grain did not measure

Notice how much shorter the 5.7 bullet is in compair even at same weight. Less jacket, more lead and shorter ojive I guess.

Going to give the 5.7 a try for a big muley next week.

Good shooting,

BT

[BT Sniper]

Funny thing... the primmers where all missing from recovered bullets?????? Any ideas? They where there when I loaded them.

[elk hunter]

Brian,

I believe the missing primers were forced out by the hydraulic pressure of the expanding bullets. Good looking results.

I shot some of my .375 bullets made from 38 spl cases yesterday, all I can say is phew! the results stunk. Got an eight inch group at 50 yards. I'm not sure what went wrong, they weighed within 1 grain or so and the diameter looked good. All the other cartridge case jacketed bullets I've made shoot very well. I'm not going to have time to work on them for a while as elk season starts in three weeks and I need to do some scouting.

[BT Sniper]

Kind of figure it was the pressure of hitting the target that probably popped the primers crimped and all.

I wasn't expecting much from these bullets but was supprised. Had I not got this 3/4" group I would not have thought they could shoot that good with 2"+ groups. But an 8" 50 yrd group......that is a problem. Maybe sight issues? Hope you get it figured out.

Good luck hunting. I leave Friday for deer with the 5.7x308 loaded and ready.

BT

[BT Sniper]

looking at these pics makes me want to make some more of these and do some shooting

[jonblack]

BT Sniper

I would be interested in hearing your comments about this thread (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=313841) over at AR15.com.

I think we are learn a little something when you brainstorm.

Thank you
jonblack

[M4Sherman]

That is pretty neat what you did there. One question what does the cost per bullet come up to for you?

[BT Sniper]

Cost wise....... VERY little. Labor wise.......... well you got to love it! The 5.7s can be found around 5 cents a piece and use about 120 grains of lead. So about 50 bullet cores per lb of lead at 50 cents a pound and I gues you get about 7 cents a piece per completed bullet I guess but I traded for the brass and found the lead so it is only labor cost for me :)


I'll check in at AR-15 someday.

Thanks

BT

[jonblack]

BT

I tried to send you a PM a few days ago. I'm not sure if it went through, or if you got it. Can you check that out for me?

Thank you
jonblack

[eagleotto]

BT Sniper,
Like Jonblack, I tried to PM you and am not sure it went through.
I was curious if you could list what equipment you needed other than your press to accomplish the 170 grain ones.
I would also like to know if you still had any more of the .312 diameter ones you first created left?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

BT,
I'm still interested in a 308 swage die (I guess 165/170 gr. will due)
I still haven't tried resizing the 5.7 case in the Hornady 270 WIN size die yet.
I'm waiting on a base punch from another friend of mine.
by the way, I am off work in one week til "I don't know when"
and will be looking for the 44 dies,
How close is the XTP clone die ?
I do have other projects to work on, if the 44 dies are still weeks away.
I still haven't plugged in the Lead pot yet...that is another project.
Jon

[jonblack]

BT

Can you give us an update on this thread, please? Will you be selling a swaging die kit for the 5.7 by 28 -> .30 cal projectile?

Thank you
jonblack

[BT Sniper]

I'm working on improvments so they will be up to my standards in quality to make avialble to everyone. It is high on my list that is for sure.

The Ch dies produce bullets as pictured in post 1 and 4 of this thread with a flat base rather then BT. The flat point is standard but the spitzer point is posible. The bullet pictured in post #26 is made from a die no longer avialable. The Ch die is limited to about 170 grain bullets and less because of design when used with the 5.7 brass.

I am working on getting this set up ready to offer since I have had a lot of intrest in it. I just want to make sure no one is going to be confused with the other bullet I made in post #26. When I get the set together I will post a new thread with pics and what I have to offer with it. The CH 308 die still makes a very good bullet and will certainly be up to the same standards as the rest I have offered that is for sure. I imagine it will be about a month or so before I have things perfected. Do feel free to PM me with inquires for updates should I not post anything after a while.

Thanks

BT

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I finally got to try sizing the 5.7 case after annealing.
I made a base punch using a 1/2 fine thread bolt that fits into my press ram.
then drilled and tapped a 1/4 fine thread hole in the center of that,
and used a 4" long 1/4"fine thread with the head ground off with a slight
bevel, which then opened the neck to 0.245

I tried the 270 Win FL size die as BT suggested to me.
It is too small and the case got stuck/wedged in the die.
I had to use a brass punch and hammer to get the case out.

So I tried a 280 Rem FL size die...BINGO
the 5.7 case was originally 0.316
the 280 die sized it down to 0.305
boy that's about perfect.
Jon

[jonblack]

JonB

Thanks for the post. Please tell us more! If you can provide pictures that would be awesome. I'm off to search for info on annealing the cases.

Thanks again
jonblack

[BT Sniper]

Well I thought I might take a break from the computer but just couldn't , curiosity got to me.

Jon, sounds like you got it figured out perfect. Glad to see the 280 worked. Now I don't have to track down a 270 die. How was the pressure required to size the case? Did it push it all the way threw? Did you drill and tap everything yourself? If so you are allready on your way to many more fun projects in this swaging game. Any dificulties? Sounds like it worked perfect. I'll have to make me one too for sure.

As far as annealing the 5.7s it is even easier then any of the other brass if you ask me. Because of the lacquer finish on it you'll want to cook it long enough that this finish starts to flake off. Dirrect flame is best for this and a stainlwss steel colender from wally world in a fire place or BBQ grill will anneal at least 100 cases at a time this way. Then soak them in anynumber of the recemended acid baths that have been mentioned on this sight. I tumble them afterwords and cases will be bright and shinny.

Now Jon your going to have to figure out a core mold. I suppose a 22 cal drilled out would work if we can track down one. I have used the regular lead wire fishing weight that is 1/4 diameter and it works good but unless you can trackdown a lot of it at yard sale or somthing it will be a bit expensive. We'll have you all set up pretty soon. I may be able to get you a core seat die on the way while I am busy perfecting the swage die.

Do post us some pics of your set up.

Nice job! Swage On!

BT

[jonblack]

JonB

Are you just working on getting the case forming figured out or do you have a means to make a core as well? I guess what I am wondering is if you are making full projectiles or just working on jackets.

Thanks
jonblack

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

jonblack wrote, "Are you just working on getting the case forming figured out or do you have a means to make a core as well? I guess what I am wondering is if you are making full projectiles or just working on jackets"
We are in the process for making a finished projectile. As you read through this complete thread you'll see this is one of BT's projects, I am just helping it along as I can with my minimal equipment. I do have an idea for a core mold, but with my limited experience in casting, I plan to do some casting of some LEE TL boolits to familiarize myself to casting, I have read posts on castboolits everyday since April on everything to do with swaging and casting, but have been too busy with work to do some casting...well the work ended last thursday, so I will be casting soon.


Jon, sounds like you got it figured out perfect. Glad to see the 280 worked. Now I don't have to track down a 270 die.
1...How was the pressure required to size the case?
2...Did it push it all the way threw?
3...Did you drill and tap everything yourself?
If so you are allready on your way to many more fun projects in this swaging game. Any dificulties? Sounds like it worked perfect. I'll have to make me one too for sure.

Now Jon your going to have to figure out a core mold. I suppose a 22 cal drilled out would work if we can track down one.
Do post us some pics of your set up.
1...The CH press is NOT a compound leverage type press and not that much pressure needed...a little more than FL sizing a belted magnum case I guess. Look at the photo with the case just pressed through the die but not ejected yet, the base didn't get rounded from pushing it up through the die like it appears to have been on the photo you posted in post #1
2...YES, see the photos
3...YES, I do have a small table top (china) drill press with a drill press fixture clamp. and a couple of Tap/die sets. I have worked at a circuit board MFG and made lots of testing fixtures and drilled and tapped many things. I don't have a lathe or Mill, but I have a couple of friends that do.

1/2 fine thread 1" long grade 5 bolt drilled and tapped for 1/4x28.
1/4x28 4.0" long grade 8 bolt with hex Head ground off.
the case on the left was roughly trimmed on my bandsaw (china) then tried to press it through the 270 die...you can kinda see the deformation near the head, just past the extraction groove, that is where is got stuck. I did push it through the 280 die afterward to try and clean it up. the middle case was pushed through the 280 die only untrimmed to see how the case mouth would expand. it did expand nicely to about 0.245" if the full length of the case could be used for swaging in the CH die (which I doubt) then a core cast in a .243 mold should work out nicely. again, the OD of the sized case including the head is 0.305, I did several and all were the same. the annealed case on the right is not sized at all and shown for reference only. lastly, I didn't acid bath clean these or tumble clean them, this was a quick and dirty experiment, and I may not have completely burnt off the polymer coating during annealing, it's difficult to get consistant heat on a campfire compared to my household woodstove which I didn't want to fire up in the middle of a hot summer day.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/57x308sizingbasepunchreduced.jpg

lubing a case.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/57x308sizinglubereduced.jpg

just about to be sized...bottom view of 280 die in press.
I kept the base punch loosey goosey cause my tapped hole wasn't perfect.
it seemed to push the case through OK without stressing the case.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/57x308sizinginpressbottviewreduced.jpg

A case just pressed through to the top of the die. Because I was expanding the mouth,
the case mouth grips the base punch just enough that I can't pull it out with my fingers,
but the case is all the way through the neck sizing protion of the 280 die.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/57x308sizinginpresstopreduced.jpg

I used a 22 hornet shell holder (closest sized one I had) to grab
the base of the sized 5.7 case while I lowered the ram/base punch, to release the case form the base punch.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/57x308sizinginpresstopw22hornshellh.jpg

5.7 case lifted out and soon falls off the shell holder.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/57x308sizinginpresstopw22hornshe-1.jpg

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

OH yeah...the core mold.
I have a 2 cav. LEE C309-200-R mold.
it looks like I can drill a new spue hole in the spue plate inbetween
the two for the existing ones for 309 cavities, then drill a new cavity for a core without
wrecking the die...I hope.
Jon

[BT Sniper]

Great work there Jon, just as I would have done. Actually if I aquire a 280 sizing die I may just cut it down so I don't need such a long base punch. Sacrifice a sizing die to a good cause and all :) I was going to mention using the space inbetween teh molds to drill new core molds for this project. This is what I did on the back side of my 6 cavity 125 9mm mold. Works great just be carfull not to go to deep or to big from the start. As I recal I think I may have used a 1/4 drill but may have wanted it a bit smaller. Always easy to go up in size, back down a bit more difficult.

Swage On!

BT

[jonblack]

Actually if I aquire a 280 sizing die I may just cut it down so I don't need such a long base punch.
BT

How are you cutting down a sizing die? Or are you grinding it down to size?

Thank you
jonblack

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

How are you cutting down a sizing die? Or are you grinding it down to size? Thank you jonblack

I also thought of doing that...but not until I am ready for production of hundreds of rounds.
I would use a 14" metal chop saw and water cooling while cutting.
I assume BT would use a lathe or mill ??? but I'm just guessing.
Jon

[zombiedfens]

Slightly veering off topic :) Regarding The 308 Cal projectiles that the CH4D dies make has anyone tried using them in a M1A/M14 or Garand or any other autoloader? im curious if the rather wide Meplat would cause feeding issues??

BT Sniper, any thought on if you could ship your improved dies and parts to Canada?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Well it's time this thread is awaked from it's slumber.

I cut down the Bonanza 280 Rem FL size die.
I asked Lathesmith to cut this die for me along with an order of sizing dies I am having him modify and make some others. He said it'd be a big deal to cut it.
First anneal it, then cut, then heat treat. He said I should just use the Shop saw and water/garden hose for cooling and cut it real slow...a little at a time, never letting the metal get too hot to touch. I had success !!! :)
photos below...I didn't get a perfectly straight cut, but it doesn't really matter for the use this die will get. I also had to cut my base punch shorter, it was a grade 8 bolt, I used the same technique, then I put it in the chuck of my cheapo chinese drill press and squared it up like a machinist would use a Mill. that is also how I tapered the end and polish it...mentioned later.

I had some 5.7x28 brass I annealed last spring, I wanted them shorter,
so I cut them with the Harbor Frieght mini chop saw...it worked OK if I cut real slow and put a little wax on the cutting wheel. they should be cut before the annealing process once i figure out exactly what length I need. just guess and wanting to experiment I trimmed some of them to 0.850 long.
they started 0.315" in diameter, once pushed through the newly shortened die, they came out at 0.304" diameter and they grew in length by .025" to .035"
I shortened the base punch to the ideal length, but when I sized the brass, it worked the press more than it should have and the brass was crimped onto the base punch (the base punch is a grade 8 bolt 1/4x28)
So I removed some of the metal and put a taper on the end of the base punch then polished it. WHAT an improvement, sizing was lots easier and the brass just fell off the punch and into the bowl below my press. Here are some photos.
Jon
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1386.jpg
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1388.jpg
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1389.jpg
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1390.jpg
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1391.jpg
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1392.jpg
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1393.jpg

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Next, I need to play with a Core mold I bought in the Sellin and Swappin section.
it is a Lyman mold with a 4 cav. 38 WC on one side,
and 8 cavity core mold on the other side,
the cores measure about .223 by 1/2" long.
I'll first enlarger them to .250 in diameter and cast them and see what I get.
I may be able to enlarge them a little more ?

I could drill out 6 cavities to make them longer but the other two can't be, or I'll hit the alignment pins.

I'll dig into that soon.
Jon

[BT Sniper]

Awesome work Jon. I would have done the same thing to the die if I had planned to use it for sizing the brass. Maybe I still will.

I have been playing a bit lattly with the 308 projects. Got me a sizing die from drill bushings and it is taking them down to about .302 but it is difficult. I still need to work on it.

Love your upside down mount. Great idea. Nice job on the paint too, powder coat? I could see that in a reloading catalog.

What's it like pushing up to work the press? I bet if you pushed the handle threw to the other side it would be pull operation rather then push, but you would probably be standing on wrong side of press. Either way great looking set up. You guys are starting to impress me for sure. I now realize I don't have as much freee time as I once did and you guys are doing a great job moving foward with new ideas. Thanks for sharing.

I am working on your 308 die. I have 3 sets and trying to find the best one for you. I'm having problems with the core seat die spitting out seated jackets at .308 instead of .306 or so like they should. I'm still looking into it. May have to send them back and make CH send me a better one. I'll keep you informed.

Swage ON!

BT

[lathesmith]

Good work Jon, I knew you could do it! As you have discovered, those dies are hardened for a reason. Not only does it make them more resistant to dings and/or damage, but hardening also makes the surface "slicker" and less likely to grab your work. A good, hard die that is polished and tapered, along with some wax-type lube, is your best bet for most any type of re-sizing work. Way to go!

lathesmith

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

BT,
that's Krylon spraycan spray paint. the trick is very clean metal and 2 or 3 thin coats and the Heat of the Sun on a warm day for about an hour inbetween coats.

The handle of the Lee classic cast press is reverseable as well as completely adjustable.
If you examine the two photos again, you can see the Handle position to deduce movement,
It is a pull toward yourself movement at just the right height, not a reaching up type movement...that would suck!

Lathesmith,
I use a lanolin/castor oil (80/20) lube blend for sizing the brass jacket material as well as for swaging.
Jon

[Ammosmith]

BT,

Is the ogive tapered like that on the point forming die? If so how did you get the soft point so pointed? Did you modify a punch? Thanks!

[Trapaddict]

Those are some awesome looking rifle boolits! Those 5.7's are starting to become a little more plentiful too.

Jeff

[mckutzy]

This has been a quite a thread to read, glad to see. I hope this wasnt too much of a bump but it does pertain to this post...
BT Sniper- I have a question.. up north us folks dont have much of a supply of 5.7 cases like u guys do. Lately I was thinking about seeing all of these TV shows that like to use the FN P90 PDW, and thought about this thread, what about using the blanks cases to make ur jackets, they are the basically same case right?

[BT Sniper]

Yes the 5.7 are becoming avialble in more quanity latly.

Yes a blank brass case will make just as good of bullet as a live fired case would.

Yes I have 2 thousand of them annealed and ready to form into bullets :)

Yes ground squirrel season is only a month away out here :)

Even took a nice mule deer with this bullet two years ago. I expect many more positive range reports from these bullets.

Swage ON!

BT

[BT Sniper]

Should have new test results from custom BT Sniper dies soon. Maybe as soon as this weekend if it stops raining over here.

BTSniper

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I put this project on the back burner since I last played with these dies.
This was back in early Dec. 2010.
I wasn't happy with the size/shape of the swaged bullets from these CH dies
when attempting to get them as heavy as possible...150gr plus.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1486-2.jpg
I discussed this with BT and we came to the conclusion that these
CH 308 dies were designed primarily for a projectile
for 30 carbine. I desided to try one more time with
a lighter bullet, around 120 gr.

Months ago, I modified a core mold
and cast 100+ pure lead cores at about 70gr.
and cut 100+ cases cut to 0.865"
then I annealed the cases in the wood stove,
then gave them a Citric acid bath.
--time passed and these cases and cores just sat on my workbench--

Finally, Yesterday...
I desided to get these done !!!
I sat down and started weighing the cores,
they averaged 71.5 gr.
Then I weighed the jackets,
they averaged 52.0 gr.
I matched cores to jackets for 123.5 gr ± 0.5gr
Then I pre-sized the jackets to 0.304 with my modified 280 FL size die,
then seated the cores in the CH seater die,
then swaged them as the final step in the swage die (point forming die).
the bullet body measures 0.3084
the rim expanded to the same.

most of the bullets had a little flashing around the flat point nose.
the jackets still had the satin look they get from the Citric acid bath,
So I desided to tumbled them for a few hours, mostly hoping
the flashing would disappear...luckily it did and polished the brass
to a beautiful shine.

I am happy with the results, but I don't have a
real need for a jacketed light 30 cal bullet.

I will be loading them for 30-06 soon
and will report the results from the range.
Jon

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1683.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1685.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/100_1689.jpg

[BT Sniper]

Looks good there Jon. Great Pics and post. Yes I think the CH 308 die is best with bullets 150 grains and under and it is my conclusion too that CH designed this die for making smaller bullets suited for the small 30 and 32 cal pistols or carbines. These do look like pretty good little varmit bullets or great bullets for the smaller 30 cal rifles such as the 30-30s

What are you going to do when these bullets shoot under in 1" for you :) lol! They may actually shoot pretty good. I've found the brass jacketed bullets very capible of great accuracy once you find the right combination.

Good shooting.

BTSniper

[b2riesel]

Well, I just bought an Ishy Enfield .308....so I guess I need to start looking for a .308 die huh?

[BT Sniper]

I'll have it ready and to your door by end of July, atleast that is my goal. Ten sets of my 308 custom dies are heading to heat treat first thing after holiday.

BT

[MakeMineA10mm]

BT - It might be on another thread that I missed, but since you're making your own dies now, are you making these 30-cal. die bodies longer, so a heavier bullet can be made than in the CH dies?

[BT Sniper]

BT - It might be on another thread that I missed, but since you're making your own dies now, are you making these 30-cal. die bodies longer, so a heavier bullet can be made than in the CH dies?

YEP! I've made 225 grains from copper tubbing with them already so there should be plenty of room. Havn't tested the actuall max weight yet. Should be enough room to cover up to 240 grains possibly more. Certainly more room them the 30 cal CH dies.

BT

[MakeMineA10mm]

:drinks:

[smilie=w: