Dillon 650 $ Lonk n Load for Black Powder.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I do a lot of cowboy shooting and am about to settle on the 44/40 with Black Powder. My instincts tell me that the Dillons are everywhere and that is usually a good thing. I like the concept of the lock and load (change to 45 Colt, just swap out the FLS and seat crimp die, etc. The Dillons are an expensive option if a lot of cals are loaded, you need a powder measure for each one (I had a 550 years ago with only one measure, it works, but I ain't going down that road again I'm thinking). I will also be loading a lot of 44 Specials and a lesser amount of 44Mags.

Far as I can see the L/n/L with a spare Hornady BP measure would be the go. I load a lot of 38s as well, but will be doing that on a Green Machine (remember those?).

I have a few questions;

1) What do you guys think?
2) Has anyone loaded black on the 650?

hanks for the help (I did a search, but didn't come up with much).

[dromia]

I can heartily recommend the Hornady. Easily as good as, if not better than the 650 at less money.

Never loaded BP on a progressive though and to be honest I'd be leery of it.

The thing that would worry me would be powder spillage, with grains getting crushed under shell plates and priming parts etc. It could be an accident waiting to happen.

I'm a cautious handloader and others might have more contrary views based on practical experience, but its not something I'd choose to do.

[shotman]

well I got a d 650 a few years back . I did it before I checked the cost to convert. They are a good press but looking back I wouldnt do it again. I did find that you can get by the cost of the whole kit . Just some parts. The time it takes to switch cals. Is what I dont like. I will load about 5000 rds and then make the change. Many like the LnL I think RCBS has one like it now.

[Four Fingers of Death]

After giving the matter some though, maybe I should just size and prime on the first run, then charge the cases and add wads, etc if necessay off the machine and finally boolit seat and crimp using another tool head. A bit slower, but a lot safer, but still way quicker than a single stage press (like the 30 yr old Rockchucker I currently use).

[Just Duke]

Lloyd Smale turned me onto the lock and load and it has been running great.
1000 free bullets was cool too.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Lloyd Smale turned me onto the lock and load and it has been running great.
1000 free bullets was cool too.

I remember seeing a picture of your reloading room. Boy, they sure saw you coming, you can buy spare toolheads, they tricked you into buying a press for each calibre, you are a cool hand when it comes to scoring pretty ladies, but the Dillon crowd sure got the drop on ya there! :D

Just joking Duke, easier to move your stool along rather than change press toolheads, etc. Say hello to Barbie for me, I've been a bit slack lately, this is about the only site I visit regular. Got married, been in China for a few months, yarda, yarda, yarda.

I'll see ya when the weather breaks.

[Dan Cash]

I load .45-70 match loads on a 550 but neck size on a separate press and charge using a lyman measure off the 550. It is much faster than single station press work.

I load .45 Colt with BP on the 550 but charge using the Lymean measure off the press.

Using the Lyman measure lets me trickle/drop tube the charge which I can not do with the Dillon measure.

Dan

[August]

The LnL has served well as a loader for all things cowboy. I load 38-40 black powder, 38 special white powder, 45 acp, and occasionally 44 mag on mine. Prior to getting the LnL, I used Dillon presses.

If one is set up for a single caliber, the Dillon has the ability to turn out a lot more ammo in a given amount of time than does the LnL. But, for special projects (which black powder loading always seems to turn into), rapid change over, and safety, the LnL is my preference.

Recovering from mistakes is much simpler and faster with the LnL.

Sometimes with the 38-40, another die has to be inserted into the process to accommodate a change in components or approach. I use a Lee Through Powder Expander die most of the time and get good results. One of my plastic powder funnels fits perfectly in the bore of the TPE. Also, sometimes I use a LFCD on the end of the process and sometimes I'm able to seat and crimp with a standard (Redding) seating die -- it depends on which bullet I'm using. Change overs like this are much easier on the LnL than on a Dillon Press.

I do my long rifle loads on a Redding T-7. Long rounds don't get along with progressive presses because they are top-heavy and tend to tip when shuttled. Here is where a 550 is advantageous because the shuttle is worked manually and the operator can be gentle in his approach to this. But, I don't shoot that many long rifle rounds in a year and I weigh the charges anyway -- speed is not part of that process.

I prefer the LnL because of its safety, versatility, ease of recovery from mistakes, and quality of powder measure.

[runnin lead]

When loading 45-70 BP on my 550 I neck size & prime on position 1 while expanding& belling /flaring at position 2 , I then remove my brass & charge it all with BP,I then insert wads in them & run through a compression die in position 3 returning them to a seperate loading block, I then size & lube my bullets & place in the waiting brass,Next I place in position 3 & rotate them to #4 & seat doing steps #1 & #2 simultaneusly does save me some time but I use my dillion for everything , it's all I've got. I have tried compressing then inserting a bullet then advancing to the seater die maybe that would work ok if my bullets were already sized & lubed but messed with my rythem sizing & lubeing

[iron mule]

4 fingers her eis another option you may want to look into the lee classic turrent press // price is good and get the 4 hole model // i have been using one for a while 2or 3 years now and only load black on it 45 lc 38-40 and 38 spl for the burro fisrt thing to do is remove the auto index rod and advance the turrent by hand // i can load 300 to 400 an hour if i am in a hurry but i size deprime and then prime seperate to the actual begining of this// best thing about it is once you have the dies set up you just change turrents for another caliber/

mule

[Dale53]

I have loaded Black Powder .45 Colts on my Dillon 550B. Dillon does NOT recommend their measure with black powder. If that bothers you, then use Hodgdon Pyrodex as it is OK with a progressive powder measure.

I have shot a LOT of black powder in the .45 Colt and I use a powder measure. I use NO wads (absolutely not needed IMO) and compress 1/16" with the bullet. I cast my own bullets and cast 30/1 lead/tin and lube with Emmert's Home Mix. My Ruger Bisley Vaquero will shoot these loads in 2" and under at 25 yards (case full with velocity nearing 1000 fps with Swiss 3f BP). Using Elephant (no longer available) the velocity with 2f is about 750 fps. The bullet in all cases is the Lyman 452664 sized to .452". This is a VERY practical load for the .45 Colt. The load shoots point of aim at 25 yards. I can shoot 75 rounds accurately before the cylinder starts binding (this depends in some measure on your revolver).

I have also shot this revolver extensively with smokeless powder. At factory velocity with Unique it also shoots to the POA at 25 yards.

FWIW
Dale53

[Just Duke]

I remember seeing a picture of your reloading room. Boy, they sure saw you coming, you can buy spare toolheads, they tricked you into buying a press for each calibre, you are a cool hand when it comes to scoring pretty ladies, but the Dillon crowd sure got the drop on ya there! :D

Just joking Duke, easier to move your stool along rather than change press toolheads, etc. Say hello to Barbie for me, I've been a bit slack lately, this is about the only site I visit regular. Got married, been in China for a few months, yarda, yarda, yarda.

I'll see ya when the weather breaks.

Congrats on the new wifey.
I had nothing else to live for so I got married too. :groner:
From the casting couch to the casting bench. :holysheep
If I didn't spend my money on reloading products I would just end up squandering it on something frivalous like food or something.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Duke, we have a country and western singer here who has a song which goes: " I spent all my money on women and guns and the rest I just wasted !" (I can't remember what he actually sings, women and beer or somthing , I have been slotting in the word guns so long that is all that comes to mind). He probably filched the song from some American.

Dale 53, sounds good, what powder measure do you use?

[Dale53]

I have used the Dillon, Lyman, and a custom all naval bronze measure (made by my good friend, Glenn Fewless).

Understand, I don't necessarily recommend a powder measure for black but that is what I use... Lyman recommends their Black Powder measure. Dillon emphatically does NOT recommend loading black powder on their press. As I stated above, Pyrodex has been judged safe for powder measures by Hodgdon, so if black is a concern to you, use Pyrodex. It works FINE in the revolver (I won a couple of pounds of "Pistol Pyrodex" at a match and used that up. It shoots well.

I don't smoke and no one in our home does, either...

Dale53

[looseprojectile]

I don't load black. But If I did I would use the Lee Classic Turret press that I already have. I have owned and used the Dillon 550 and the Lee is a lot more user friendly. After I bought mine I reccomended it to a friend and we are both pleased with the way they produce.
Lee doesn't address the issue of using black powder in their gear and I would talk to them first.
Your bench could start to look like Duke's as you can buy three or four presses for the cost of one Dillon or Hornady press.
I am income challenged and don't mind changing the dies in the single four hole die head that I have. It might take fifteen minutes to change to an other caliber. It only takes about thirty seconds to change primer sizes.
The lee powder measure is largely plastic and would seem to be safe to use with black powder. I would get the adjustable slider. There may be some issue with static though a silicone spray eliminates that problem for me with smokeless powder.
Look into the various powder measurs, risers and swivels and accessories that Lee offers before you jump in as I had some confusion there.
You married into money, Right? Congratulations.

Life is good

[Dale53]

looseprojectile;

I have a Lee Classic Turret Press and it IS a great press. However, I do NOT find it more user friendly than a Dillon 550B. They are both good presses in their own right.

Production is the great difference. With the Lee I can run 150-200 rounds per hour. With the Dillon, I can run 400-500 per hour. THAT is the difference.

Both are really great designs. They just do things differently. I keep my Lee for small production runs (under 200 rounds) and experimental stuff. It is so easy to change calibers (mere seconds). The Dillon (I have two) are for my production needs.

If I were asked, I would suggest a Lyman Black Powder measure in the Dillon (Lyman makes an adaptor die). The mechanical advance on the Dillon makes this easy to do.

I also have a Lyman Turret (bought before the Lee Classic came on the market) dedicated to BPCR loads and use the Custom Bronze powder measure (Glenn Fewless made) and can load a 40/65 or 45/70 in about 20 seconds per round (this actually works out to about 150 per hour "in the real world"). You could do that with the Lee using a Lyman measure, also.

Dale53

[Four Fingers of Death]

Lots of good info, Thanks.

[Four Fingers of Death]

You married into money, Right? Congratulations.

Life is good

Sadly, no, it must be love because I courted two ladies who had more money and property than you could poke a stick at, but something wasn't right (one actually refused to sleep in my comfy pop up camper trailer and bought a 21' $56,000 caravan to go to a shoot in).

As it is a rest of my life deal with me and I was with my late wife for 35+ years, I wanted to get it right. Unlike the other ladies, this one isn't a multi millionaire, but she got the job.

She is a retired Doctor from China and unlike Doctors in the West they don't worry about titles, etc (more of a job description than a title) and they are all Government employees. When they retire they are just another S&#t kicking pensioner. Her cowboy alias is Doc Ping, Medicine Woman.

I'll have to be careful, I am hijacking my own thread.

[cajun shooter]

I load on a Dillon 550 and a Lee Classic Turret both. Dale is 100% correct in out put. 200 a hour with the Lee and 4-500 with the Dillon. I tried to use the Dillon PM to just see why they don't use it and I found out why. I use on both presses a Dillon 450 powder die, an adapter sold by Dillon and the RCBS BP measure. I shoot 3 matches a month and do a lot of loading so these are not guesstimates by some one who does not shoot. FFOD you picked a good caliber but I hope you realize that them 44-40 necks are soft and can be easily bent. When I receive new brass I always have some that look like hell. I shoot 45 Colt also and find that the cleaning of the rifle is more with it. Started using 44-40 rifle and 45 USFA's. Later David

[Four Fingers of Death]

FFOD you picked a good caliber but I hope you realize that them 44-40 necks are soft and can be easily bent. When I receive new brass I always have some that look like hell. I shoot 45 Colt also and find that the cleaning of the rifle is more with it. Started using 44-40 rifle and 45 USFA's. Later David


I realised how soft they were before I started reloading the 44WCFs, but I din't really realise how soft they were until after I started relaoding them. Look at the bin beside my Rockchucker press, there's lotza cases with deformed mouths in there. They are so soft, they crush easily twixt finger and thumb. Sorta slows you down a bit.

Initially I think I will de-prime and FLS on the Rockchucker, Clean cases in liquid cleaner (I might even spring for one of those RCBS wet tumblers). Prime using a hand primer, then use the first station on the Lee1000 with the Hornady M die that I have, then charge using an auto disk thrower then a seat die. I'm not sure about the crimp, I usually roll crimp whilst seating and have tested it a lot and don't see any difference crimped while seating or afterwards. If that doesn't work, I have a Lee Factory Crimp Die or I might even get a taper crimper or a Redding roll crimper. Taking the FLS part away from the Lee1000 wil smooth out it's operation significantly I feel.

The big Lee sounds like the right gear for the rifle calibres though. I'll have to look at one of those, heck, I'll have to look at some extra bench space. Maybe get some of those Pat Marlin's mounting plate thingos. I will probably end up with 4 Lee1000s, An RCBS Rockchucker, A Lee Big A$$ed press, a Green Machine (for 38s) and possibly a Lock'n'load, 2x Lubesizers and an RCBS case trimmer. I need a new loading room!

If I end up using 44/40 only, maybe I'd be better setting up the Green machine, it goes better when the cases are primed off the machine anyway. How's that somg go? 'The road goes on forever and the party never ends!'