Where to look?

[qajaq59]

I've been loading for many years but I have never even looked at the Surplus powders. However.... We just moved, and since the price of powder in this area is $7 a pound higher then the east coast of Florida I'm thinking of using some of the surplus powders.
However, I haven't a clue as to what kind powder to use, where to look in order to find out what the loads would be, or even where to buy it.
I shoot all 30 caliber rifles. 30-30 .308, and 30-06. And 90% of it is cast bullets. And I'll generally go thru 75-100 a week, so I do use a bit of powder. Are there sites, books, or whatever, where I can match the commercial powders to a surplus? As in IMR 3031 would be equal to ___ ? Or is that not possible, and everyone just wings it with a surplus powder?

Any education you'd care to give out I would appreciate getting.

Thanks

[Maven]

Here are 3 surplus powder suppliers: www.hi-techammo.com, www.patsreloading.com, and www.gibrass.com As for milsurp powders to use in the English and metric .30cals. (but NOT the .30-30Win.), you may want to search our archives for suggestions, but several possiblilities come to mind:

Very slow powders: WC 860 (ball); WC872 (ball); IMR 5010 (extruded, but large pieces: doesn't flow through a powder measure very well). In a typical .30cal. cartridge, e.g., .30-06, with a 175gr. - 195gr. CB, you'll need 48gr. or more of any one of these to get to 1,750fps. IMR 5010 and WC 860 burn a bit cleaner if you use a LR mag. primer, but even so there's a lot of unburned powder.

Very fast: WC 820 (ball), can be the equivalent of AA #9 or H 110 (lots vary) so be aware of the burning rate if you decide to buy it. I generally use 18.5grs. - 20.5grs. (AA #9 burn rate) in my '06 and similar cartridges (but NOT the .30-30Win.). If you carefully calibrate your pistol powder measure (I use a Lyman with a series of fixed, but interchangeable cavities.), you can use it to throw charges of 820. Not the best powder, but it once could be had at a very attractive price. Ditto the one's above.

Slow, but odd: IMR 7383 (extruded, but bulky): This one is not for the novice since it doesn't respond well to compression and since pressure rises very quickly with the addition of what seems to be a small amount more, e.g., 1gr. - 2grs. It doesn't respond well to greatly reduced loads either. However, performs very well with jacketed bullets and full power loads as long as you don't compress it much. The lot that I have is close to IMR 4350 in burning rate, but lots of 7383 vary between IMR 4064/H 380 and IMR 4331. Using a chronograph is a must with this one.

You may also want to search our archives by these powders and the CastPics site (bottom of your screen) for loading data. There is a false economy, though, that you should be aware of, especially with the very slow and slow milsurp powders. You'll wind up using virtually full charges of them, whereas you'd use only 20grs. - 22grs. of AA 5744 or 21gr. - 24grs. of H/IMR 4198 in the '06 with the range of bullet weights I mentioned earlier.

[swheeler]

I think the glory days of cheap surplus powder are pretty much a thing of the past, THANK YOU SLICK WILLIE! I just recently removed bartlett, hi tech and Pats from my Favorites, those days are gone just like so many others, free WW's next. Thank goodness we have such wise elected officials saving us from all these evils.

[RayinNH]

The good old days are gone. I just took a quick glance before posting this response. The available powders (very few) are priced about ten bucks per pound. As Maven said you use at least twice the amount so it's no longer attractive to buy. When I bought my last supply it was $4.00 per pound, only four years ago. In those days Bartlett would have a dozen or so powders to chose from. Now he has three :(...Ray

[qajaq59]

Thanks for the info guys.
It doesn't sound like it's a way to save money any longer, but I think I'll read thru the posts on it anyway. Wont hurt me to learn a little about another part of the hobby.

[Shiloh]

Like swheeler said. The days of in-exhaustable supplies of surplus powder are over. Surplus powder is now destroyed. Most of what is left is just a few dollars less than commercial cannister powders. I have shot up a lot of surplus. I think it was the Klinton regime that mandated the destruction of surplus powder.

Shiloh

[Maven]

I should like to emphasize that few of the milsurp powders were perfect, but their positive attributes outweighed the negative ones, especially with respect to past prices. E.g., twenty years ago, Thunderbird Cartridge Co. marketed T-VEN, which was a dead ringer for IMR 4198 in performance, but not physical appearance* at a ridiculously low price per 8lb. jug, doubly so since Hazmat fees hadn't yet been imposed.


*T-VEN was a flake powder: shiny, dark gray parallelograms/diamonds that metered very well and burned clean. It was ideal for mid-range CB loads.

[Shiloh]

The advantage was dirt cheap powder. I remember 8# kegs of 4895 for around $50.
The old timers tell of a couple of bucks a pound.

Surplus vendors used to list many different powders. Now it is no more than two or three.
Even those are drying up.

Shiloh

[tall grass]

If you are going to mail order you might try Powder Valley (do a google). They are good to deal with on regular powders. You do have to figure the Hazmat in on the shipping though :-( .

Just my 2 cents

Jim

[jonk]

Add wideners to that list. They have pull down 4895 in stock.

[TCLouis]

Shiloh really makes me fee old.

First Milsurp I ever used as 50 cents a pound.

Some of the "new" wc820 keeps calling my name since I am down to just a few pounds and if one spreads the ripoff-mat fee over several jugs it does not seem so bad.

[StarMetal]

Add wideners to that list. They have pull down 4895 in stock.

It doesn't say on their website that it's pull down powder. Also it's similar to 4895 not exactly like. It's British powder. They used it in the 7.62x51.

Joe