Trapdoor!!

[Potsy]

A buddy of mine has a later model trapdoor (I base this on the fact that it's got the Buffington rear sight on it) that is in used but amazingly well kept condition.

He'd like to get it running and hit me up to work up a load with cast boolits.
We don't really want to tie up a bunch of money in the project but what would be a good mold to start with?

I looked at the Lee .457 405 but I know the later model Trapdoors were loaded with 500 grain bullets. I see the 500 grain Lee offering is a gas checked model. I could do that but I'm not seeing the need for checks @ 20,000 psi.

I'm not totally opposed to using commercial cast bullets that were very close to the originals if I knew where to find them. It's just that I can buy a cheap Lee mold for what a box of bullets cost.

We will be using smokeless powder (probably 3031).

Any advice or ideas would be appreciated.

[Nobade]

Use the Lee 405 HB, or the SAECO 1883 500gr. roundnose. Load over nothing but black powder. Read Pat Wolf's book. Don't use smokeless.

That's my advice.

[mooman76]

The Lee manual has some loads in the 45-70 that are specific to certain rifles to include the Trapdoor. Use extream caution when developing these loads as they are meant for guns in in extreamly good condition. The trapdoor has a weak action. I used Unique in mine and started getting presure signs somewhere arounf 14gr. with filler. I got my best results with a BP substitute. It also like lead on the soft side. Not neccissarily pure but like 20-1 or even 30-1.

[mazo kid]

Use the Lee 405 HB, or the SAECO 1883 500gr. roundnose. Load over nothing but black powder. Read Pat Wolf's book. Don't use smokeless.
That's my advice.
Plus 1! Shoot fairly soft boolits, unsized if they chamber. the Trapdoor usually has a generous bore so something in the .460+" range should work good. I have used 5744 in my Trapdoors and it seems to work OK, powder of choice is still black powder.

[RayinNH]

I agree on the Lee 405HB. With black powder the hollow base should blow out to fit the barrel...Ray

[coyotebait]

What M Kid said. The 405HB will probably work out to 400 yards, past that use the 500gr and expect more recoil. With the short length of pull don't smack yourself in the face with your thumb during recoil.
coyotebait

[WildmanJack]

+1 on what Coyotebait said. First off buy yourself a Past recoil pad. The one you wear on your shoulder. Get the best one you can, you'll need it. I was firing 405 gr. over Black and it kicked the livin do-do out of me. There was no way I was goin to shoot 500's, then I bought the Past and that gun is a ball to shoot. Bein as I'm on blood thinners, my right shoulder was a mixture of purple, green, blue, black, brown and a few various shades of yellow after a short morning shooting without the Past, now with the Past... No brusing at all!!!
Just my 2 cents...
Jack

[Four Fingers of Death]

Lee 405HB, black, way to go!

[StrawHat]

The best advice so far has been to get "THE" book.

http://www.the45-70book.com/The-Book-3rd-Edition-by-Spence-Pat-Wolf

Read it through a couple of times and follow what they say. If you follow their recipe, you don't need the smokeless stuff.

[NickSS]

I shoot my trap door rifles a lot and mostly with black powder. I size all by bullets in a .459 die but that is not too large. Black will bump the slug up to fill the bore if the alloy you use fairly soft the army used 16-1 lead tin aloy and I use 30-1 which works too. For bullets I use a 500 gr Lyman round nose or a lee 405 gr HB bullet. Both work well. The rifle that I shoot the most is a 1888 ramrod bayonet rifle which was the last model made in quantity before the trapdoors were replaced by the Krag.

[Potsy]

I think we'll probably give the Lee 405HB a whirl. Alloy will be wheelweight metal (might try annealling it).
I mentioned black powder to my buddy and he's not big on the idea. Doesn't want to be digging the fouling out of the nooks and crannies. Admittedly, I've never loaded black in a cartridge gun before and would rather not do it in someone's gun other than my own on the first go round.
Probably go with 3031 on the first try (starting low, of course).
I'll post results.
Thanks!!!

[Larry Gibson]

I think we'll probably give the Lee 405HB a whirl. Alloy will be wheelweight metal (might try annealling it).
I mentioned black powder to my buddy and he's not big on the idea. Doesn't want to be digging the fouling out of the nooks and crannies. Admittedly, I've never loaded black in a cartridge gun before and would rather not do it in someone's gun other than my own on the first go round.
Probably go with 3031 on the first try (starting low, of course).
I'll post results.
Thanks!!!

The Lee 405HB is a replicant of the M1873 bullet. The HB is not intended to "blow out" ala minie bullet style. The HB is merely there to contro.l the weight of the bullet while maintaining the external dimensions. It never was intended for the skirts to blow out. Simply look at how thick they are and it will be obvious. However it is a pretty good bullet for original TDs as it usually casts a bilt large, especially with WWs. I leave mine "as cast' at .464- .465" for use in my original TD. I do this with both smokeless and BP loads. Accuracy is always better if the bullet fits the groove depth or is swaged down by the leade than with "bumping up". The 3031 will work fine, especially if you use a 1 - 1.5 gr dacron filler.

If you choose to go with a 500 gr bullet I would recommend the Rapine 460500. This is a replicant of the M1882 500 gr bullet. My Rapine mould drops bullet of 1-16 (tin - lead, the alloy finally setteled on by Frankford arsenal for best accuracy) at .4615 - .462". With that bullet and either smokeless or BP loads my target TD holds sub 2 moa 10 shot groups at 200 yards. Many complain about the recoil of the 500 gr loads. However I do not find my loads objectionable at all but I do keep velocities down in the original TD range of 1200-1300 fps.

Larry Gibson