Lyman top punch problem

[PA Shootist]

I cast up a batch of boolits with my new Lyman 257420 2-cavity mold, to put my old '92 Winchester 25-20 back into more frequent use. A great mold, beautiful boolits from #2 alloy. Alas, the Lyman #420 top punch is the wrong shape and deforms the nose, exerting even a minimum pressure in the Lubri-sizer. The ad blurb in the catalog says "precision machined so it won't deform the bullet"... Anyone else suffer this sort of problem? Any way to fix? I thought of "casting" epoxy around a boolit set into the top punch... I can't think of any way to machine or reshape the punch.

[Calamity Jake]

I would send the TP and samples to Lyman, they should replace the TP, or you can custom fit to your boolit with epoxy.

[qajaq59]

It's a flat nosed bullet so it should work easily, and that's the right top punch according to their page. Is your sizing die too small by any chance? It shouldn't take so much force to size it that it crushes the top of the bullet.

[PA Shootist]

As near as I can tell, the flat nose never touches the inside top of the punch. Instead a too-small radius touches the bullet ogive and marks and distorts it. I'm sizing .258, that doesn't seem to stress things much. I am on vacation now, but poured an epoxy mold of the boolit nose in the punch before I left, we'll see when I get back. And I ordered a new top punch from Midway, deciding this one was bad and deciding it might not be worth the time to communicate with Lyman. Though maybe they should know when they let a bad piece get out.

[R.C. Hatter]

[smilie=b:Many folks on this forum have had a bunch of trouble with Lyman stuff. Send the top punch back and complain. It may not get you a thing, but they need to know about their bad crap.

[qajaq59]

Though maybe they should know when they let a bad piece get out. I would still call them so the next guy will maybe not get the one that came off the machine after yours.
And Lyman, Lee, and many of the others seem to have no quality control at all anymore. I seem to remember that machinists used to be the proudest, pickiest, and most anal people on earth. Have all these factories gone over to lousy computer run machines or what?

[Leftoverdj]

Base is the steering end. I don't worry much about noses. Most of my top punches are homemade, anyway.

If it bugs you, lap it in.

[geargnasher]

I've had the exact same problem with every single one of my Lyman top punches, including the handful I've purchased in the past couple of years which look worse than their mould cavities, and that's pretty bad. I think they cut the top punches with the worn-beyond-cutting-a-mould cherries before they scrap them, judging by the scoring, galling, and undersized nature of their top punches. I lap mine in using a drill press, stones, sandpaper, and Prussian Blue 'til the little buggars fit. I've also used JB weld "quick" and a strip of masking tape like others have said, works fine as long as you keep the nose centered.

Enjoy your vacation1

Gear

[Ken O]

I agree that Lyman should make it right.

But, I am going to add what I do to make a top punch, or a bullet seater that deforms your bullets "correct".

Get your favorite bedding epoxy like Devcon or J-B Weld. Mix it up and fill the top punch. Put a heavy coating of Johnson's Wax, or whatever release you use when you bed your rifle, on the bullet.

Run the bullet into the top punch and wipe off the excess and let it set up. Problem solved.

[yodar]

[smilie=b:Many folks on this forum have had a bunch of trouble with Lyman stuff. Send the top punch back and complain. It may not get you a thing, but they need to know about their bad crap.

I agree with earlier post. Lyman gets to a level where they think their sh*t don't stank and they need to be straightened out

I cast a beautiful 7.62 x 39 bullet off a Harris design lee mold and it doesn't have a top punch that doesn't flatten the nice pointy tip a but, so I make my own by moulding hot melt glue around the bullet with a little piece of foil as a face and seating the top punch on the bullet to get the face I want on the top punch to size my bullet.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1229/6309647/12253703/233048100.jpg

yodar

[SciFiJim]

so I make my own by moulding hot melt glue around the bullet with a little piece of foil as a face and seating the top punch on the bullet to get the face I want on the top punch to size my bullet.

yodar, I read that three times and it still doesn't make sense to me. Can you post a picture?

[Bret4207]

I would still call them so the next guy will maybe not get the one that came off the machine after yours.
And Lyman, Lee, and many of the others seem to have no quality control at all anymore. I seem to remember that machinists used to be the proudest, pickiest, and most anal people on earth. Have all these factories gone over to lousy computer run machines or what?

Yes, but it's not the machines fault. Garbage in, garbage out. It's not the arrow (machine), it's the Indian (operator). As I understand it Lyman fired all their tool and die makers decades ago and outsources that part of the process. Then they run the cherries and dies to the last pennies worth.

I have many TP's the leave a mark. Some I don't worry about, others I've modified with a Dremel stone in my lathe.

[largom]

I am not taking Lyman's side BUT their top punches are made for a certain size boolit. Based on our casting methods, alloy temp., mold temp., casting rate, and other variables our boolits can vary in size from one caster to another. I FIX my top punches with the epoxy method. They then fit MY boolits.

Larry

[38-55]

PA Shootist..
IFf'n you don't get satisfaction from lyman.. PM me and I'll rework your top punch for ya so it fits..
Stay safe
Calvin

[yodar]

yodar, I read that three times and it still doesn't make sense to me. Can you post a picture?

Instead of waxing the bullet tip, I wrap it in foil

I then place the foil-tipped bullet in the H & I die as If I am going to size it and put dab of hot melt on the foil-covered bullet tip, and slowly lower the top punch onto the bullet and walk away till it hardens

Then I trim the excess glue off the top punch and use it henceforth normally with
that bullet design

I have several flat top punches that work well with this trick

yodar

[SciFiJim]

OK, That makes sense. This way is also has a little give in to cushion the nose of the boolit as well. An epoxy tip would be hard and could mark the boolit. I'll have to try your method.

[PA Shootist]

The postman delivered my new Lyman #420 top punch today, and it fits worse than the first one. Tomorrow I call Lyman, to at least let them know they have a misfit punch out there, and that they have disappointed a long-time customer. Meanwhile, the epoxy-molded "old" top punch works just fine, as many here have said they do routinely. I just never had this sort of issue before. I've been casting boolits with Lyman equipment since about 1968. They just "ain't what they used to be"!

[MakeMineA10mm]

I've had this problem plenty with sizing. Since all I use that's nose-driven sizers is Lyman, it's been their stuff that does it... I find that when they make a top-punch that fits JUST right to the bullet, the final machining leaves a sharp ring at the edge that almost always leaves a ring a little ways down the ogive (where the top punch stops).

Nose-first, push-through sizers are a JOY and great solution to this. Never buy another top punch... But, I still use my Lyman for certain applications.

For your problem, you've found a reasonable fix with the epoxy nose. (I'll have to keep that in my hip pocket, so thanks much to yodar for the idea!) The fix I found for ALL of my flat-nosed bullets (no matter how big or small the meplat is) is to just use a full-WC top punch that's pure flat across the top. Now, you DO have to watch and make sure you get the bullets into the H&I die straight (because the nose is getting no lateral support), but it allows me to size 80% of my bullets without changing the top punch and without getting the dreaded ring...

[qajaq59]

I wonder what has changed. I have some flat nose top punches and one that is as pointed as you could get, and neither of them leave a ring. I am casting pretty close to what I'm sizing though, so maybe that makes a difference. But if the epoxy works at least you can use the bullets.

[PA Shootist]

Called Lyman today about this top punch problem. I was told that if I returned the item to them, attn. to the representative I spoke with, he would see the punch went to the machine shop to be cut with he same tooling that cut my mold, for a perfect matchup. However, they ARE AWARE this punch might not be a good fit, but because it is the only .25 caliber top punch they make, it is a "one-size-fits-all" deal. He stated there is so little business for .25 caliber bullets, molds, etc. they aren't keeping up the required tooling for each shape, and indeed may be discontinuing this size completely, molds too. Just too little demand. He also stated the only manufacturer of gas checks in the country may also be dropping this size and some others that are in small demand.

I told him I had hogged one out previously with a Dremel stone, and cast with epoxy around one of my (their) boolits for a perfect-fit top punch that works just fine so far (I wonder how it will hold up, though of course I could recast the shape easily if required). He thought that was ingenious; I told him I had heard of the idea elsewhere, so couldn't take any credit.

It just might be all the numerous boolit casters on this forum are all there are in the world! We are a disappearing breed! At least for profitability of manufacture of many of the things we all use...

[Dale53]

I believe most of our problems with manufacturers today is the present business model. Back in the day, the manufacturers used what they made. They presented products and built a market for them. Today, the market has to come to them and God help you if they can't sell a million a year of a specific item.

Lyman used to thoroughly cover the market. Now, just bits of it. Tomorrow they will efficiently remove themselves from the market entirely. Earlier this year, I attempted to buy a four cavity 454424 bullet mould (one of the holy three Elmer moulds, for goodness sakes). They no longer offer this design in a four cavity bullet mould! Geez, I can hardly believe it.

Fortunately, one of our own Custom Mould makers, NOE, is running one as we speak. In a short time, my little problem should be handled.

I cannot imagine any corporation who imagines themselves in the bullet mould business that doesn't offer a Keith bullet in .38/.357, .44 Special/.44 Magnum, and .45 ACP & .45 Colt. It's downright Un American, that's what it is.

Rant over.
Dale53

[MakeMineA10mm]

Dale,
Very well said. Another very annoying thing about the present business model is this "just-in-time" bullcrap. That's what is causing the delays with our custom orders from Lee. In the old days, when a rush like happened when Barry was elected happens, there was some cushion of supply in the warehouse. The old business model was that a company needed this, so a consumer always could find THEIR product. Well, to save a few hundred thou, they institute JIT, and now we're all moving to MiHec and NOE. Where will this leave Lee's custom business in a year or so, when they've fully caught up? I don't know, but it will certainly be more sparce than it was with most of our custom designs being made elsewhere... I wonder if the ******* little bean counter who came up with JIT ever "factored in" lost business because others stepped up to fill the void and customers found better products elsewhere??? :holysheep

[Dale53]

A number of years ago, business started working on the "Bottom line today" completely ignoring the future. Five year plan? They don't even have a "five minute plan". Bottom line today. That is killing American business.

Dale53