looking for load ideas

[asmith80]

Hi all,

I have a Ishapore 2A that I've done some modifications to and want to start reloading for. I'm looking for some pointers in the right direction before I get started, however.

Rifle has a 16" barrel (don't know the twist rate...whatever the stock barrels on the Ishy's have) which has been free-floated. Action has been epoxy bedded and a Williams rear peep sight has been added

Right now I'm getting roughly 2" (sometimes a little tighter) groups at 50 yards with store bought hunting ammo. I'd like to acheive the same results (or better) at 100 yards. I've got a ton of IMR 4064, but I'm also thinking of getting some Varget since it seems .308's really like that powder. I know this thing is never going to be a sniper rifle, but the length and weight of it make a superb bush gun, so I'd like some decent accuracy out to 100yds.

Anybody have load suggestions for a 16" barrel with either IMR 4064 or Varget? Looking for 2" groups or better at 100 yds.

Thanks!

[O.S.O.K.]

That's a 7.62x51 NATO. Are you asking for cast boolit loads? Jacketed?

[asmith80]

Sorry, Jacketed bullets, any weight

[303Guy]

Being a short barreled rifle you likely not want to go slower than Varget. My theory is that a shorter barrel is better suited to heavier bullets. I am wondering what kind of chambering they gave those rifles. The action length would allow for long seating which would likely shoot better than factory ammo. Factory ammo might shoot poorly due to the 'flexi-ness' of the action. Try loading it to 303 Brit pressure levels i.e. use 303 Brit load data. How well was the barrel crowned when it was shortened? I have short barreled 303 Brit in my possesion with no crowning at all. It's only a matter of time before the muzzle gets a ding and it shoots poorly.

[JeffinNZ]

Don't be too keen to float that barrel. I have 4 Lee Enfield action rifles and every single one of them shoots best with a pressure pointed barrel.

[asmith80]

JeffinNZ, I consulted with many Enfield experts (i.e. people I know who shoot a lot of Enfields...maybe not really experts:-D) and they all agreed that the longer barrels need some upward pressure, but as the barrel gets shorter it also gets stiffer and doesn't really need the pressure (thinking of Jungle Carbines and Enfield Enforcers as examples).

303Guy: I crowned the barrel myself with a grinding stone and a little bit of JB Bore paste. It's not super deep, but it does offer a bit of protection. I'll try out the heavier bullets and see if getting to .303 pressure levels helps.

Thanks for the info guys...any more is greatly appreciated!

[Bret4207]

Are you loading 125's, 150's, 165's,180's or heavier? You might check the loadings for the pistols with 14" barrels with similar weight bullets.

[asmith80]

Bret4207: I have some 150s on hand but that's just because it's what I have left over from other reloadings. I'm really trying to get an idea as to what combo powder/bullet will give me the best performance, so any weight bullet is considered.

Not sure what you mean by pistols with 14" barrels. Where would I find loadings for something like that?

[canyon-ghost]

He means 14" barrels for Thompson Center Contenders or Encores. You can ask most single-shot boards or Specialty Pistols, Graybeardoutdoors, or the Cast Bullet Association. In reloading the long barreled pistols are usually TC's.

Sorrry, walked to the garage with coffee and realized I have loads for .308 in
14". Loadbooks USA shows 44.0 grains of IMR 4064 to be most accurate and
44.0 grains Varget through 47 grains for a 150 grn. bullet.

Lyman 49th ed. shows 42.5 thru 47 grains of Varget.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

The thing about Varget is that it's temperature insensitive. This makes it really attractive for hunting in all kinds of weather.

But since your barrel is so short, you might want to consider a faster burning powder, like H4895.

[303Guy]

Varget is generally an attractive powder to me. (I use H4350/AR2209 because it fills the 303 Brit case better and gives lower initial pressure for cast boolits).

You can look up Hodgdon's load data on-line. This is their pistol 308 data;

150 GR. NOS BT .308" 2.800"
Hodgdon Varget 44.0gr 2522fps 43,300 CUP
Hodgdon Varget 47.0gr 2675fps 50,300 CUP (Compressed charge)

They don't give the barrel length. That starting load would equal 303 Brit load data.

180 GR. SPR SP .308" 2.800"
Hodgdon Varget 41.0gr 2274fps 41,200 CUP
Hodgdon Varget 45.0gr 2480fps 49,600 CUP (Compressed charge)

Not too shabby for a pistol length barrel. It must have a fearsome muzzle blast!

[asmith80]

Canyon-ghost: I'm guessing all those loads are for 150 gr. bullets? That'll make it easy...I've probably got 50 of them laying around.

You guys have given me some really good info to start with. I think I'll start loading up some IMR 4064 while I'm waiting for the Varget to get here and see what happens.

Keep the info coming...more is always better :)

[Bret4207]

The pressure curve for each powder/bullet combo is different and for a short barrel you need a different powder than for a longer one. Generally you'd use a faster powder for a shorter barrel. The lighter the boolit the faster the powder as a general rule. How much faster or slower depends on the case, chambering, bullet weight and size, ambient temp, barrel length........a bunch of things. It might be worth your time to read the ballistics discussion in any of the loading manuals like Hornadys or Sierras. That will at least get you started.

[docone31]

I have no clue why you cut down a 2A barrel, but, since you did, 4064, 4895, Varget is the ticket.
My Ishy likes both 4064, and 4895. The heavier the better.
My wife gets 1" at 100yds with hers.

[canyon-ghost]

All those loads are for 150 grain bullets, yes sir.
I thought you'd want it that way, so have at it!

[bcp477]

With a 16" barrel, you DEFINITELY need a faster powder than 4064 or 4895. I'd suggest IMR-3031, Hodgdon Benchmark, Reloder 7.....something like that. With 4064, you'll be lucky to have 3 / 4 of the powder actually burn INSIDE the barrel. The telling point would be unburned powder left in the case - and I'm betting that you'd have alot of it. When I shortened the barrel on my 8 x 57 to 18"....... (4064 was my favorite powder at the time and I had a load with it that worked great with the barrel at 22").....any load I tried at the 18" barrel length left between 0.8 and 2 + grains of unburned powder in the case (and more that spilled in the action of my rifle). So, I can offer this opinion with some confidence.

[asmith80]

bcp477: It's like you knew what I was going to ask next :-). I'm going to be making a trip to Cabella's this week and I think I'll be able to pick some of this stuff up without having to pay the hazmat fee. I was actually looking at IMR 3031 as an alternate powder since I've heard other people having some success with it. Guess I'll start with a pound of 3031 and Varget and do some old fashioned experimentin'.

I seem to recall that there was a reloading program out there that had a component to it that let you enter in powder, bullet weight and barrel length and would calculate a ballpark powder charge that would have the bullet leaving the barrel at the optimum point of the pressure wave. Anybody know what program this is, or use it? I've been doing a little reading on node theory and this seems like it would be something to take into consideration