Can You Say RIP OFF?

[Noxi0uS]

I went to the local flee market today looking for cast iron and maybe an additional used hotplate and I came across something that BLEW MY FRICKIN MIND.

100 round box of 45acp Winchester Target loads for DUN DUN DUN... $80. I asked the guy if that price was right, he replied, "yeah, you want them". My wife looked at the guy like he shot at us. I thought she was going to pull my CC off my side and return fire. I then commenced to telling the guy just what I thought about that. I just thought I would share my HOLY SHEEP SH** moment with you guys.

[SierraWhiskeyMC]

Nothing to get riled up about, really.

He seems to be mighty proud of those rounds. I expect that his pride of those rounds will cost him a good bit in flea market rental fees.

I don't know where you are, but if you are in a humid climate you might mention to him next go-round that commercial ammunition degrades when subjected to heat and humidity, and offer him $20 for them. And the next time around, offer him $20 for them.

Or you could just go to your local Wally-world, and buy CCI Blazer Brass for around $20/box of 50. They're pretty good.

[HeavyMetal]

You think thats a winner?

Crusing Craig's list this morning and I got a guy selling cast lead 45, 9mm and 357 boolits for: $150.00 per thousand!

SierraWhiskeyMC: HAVEN't seen a box of 45 ammo in Wall Mart in 8 months! SAW a lone box of 25 ACP last week!

[Dale53]

Railing against someone who is simply riding the wave of ammo shortage is not for me. If you don't want ANY item (flea market or otherwise) don't buy it. It's just as simple as that. We are a capitalist nation. It has made this nation great. We all have options. That guy with high prices at the flea market doesn't owe us anything except that his product be "as advertised".

Don't buy into the idea that the world owes us ANYTHING. It doesn't. I don't care what anyone wants for their product. If it is more than I want to pay, I DON'T BUY IT. THAT is what makes the world go around. Period!

FWIW
Dale53

[hammerhead357]

I agree with Dale we can make light of the guy but the bottom line is if it is to high in price for you to pay just pass on it. Oh yeah I might just argue with him for the fun of it but I would just go on my way and forget about it....Wes

[Buckshot]

..............I'dave asked him if a 1911 came with the ammo? :-)

...............Buckshot

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

the big ripoff dealer in Boise, (Cliff's Reloading) is selling Federal 215 primers for $8 per hundred; AND limiting you to two hundred a week...says he wants to be "fair" in these hard times.

Rich

[Lead Fred]

In the Portland Craig's list a guy has a super deal on Fed Match 210 LR primers.
$70 each 1000, or $200 for all 3 boxes.

Last ones I bought were $29 per 1000.

[dale2242]

I went to a gun show in Medford, Or. yesterday and saw primers starting to show. Only problem was the price, I guess these dealers didn`t check on others prices. They ranged from $40 to $75 per 1000. Just for curiosity sake ,I asked the guy that was selling for $40 a 1000 if he was selling many. Not many he says. Good I thought. Maybe people are getting fed up with the gouging and refusing to buy . One small gun shop had LOTS of Wolf SR primers for $30 a 1000. More in line with local prices......dale

[SharpsShooter]

$55 a Brick of Federal 22lr locally ..I refuse to pay it.


SS

[Texasflyboy]

SierraWhiskeyMC: HAVEN't seen a box of 45 ammo in Wall Mart in 8 months! SAW a lone box of 25 ACP last week!

The four local Dick's Sporting Goods I went to last weekend and this weekend are overflowing with ammunition. One had cases of Remington .233 yellow box stacked 5 high x 5 deep x 5 wide in the aisle by the counter. They had every single caliber of common ammunition you could think of. 20 and 12 ga. shelves were overflowing.

Prices? Crazy.:???:

Demand?. ZERO. From what I saw during my stay. No one appeared to be rushing up to buy.

My opinion is that you have to decide if you're going to believe in the law. The law of supply and demand. If supply goes up and demand remains constant or drops, prices will fall.

I believe in the law. So I cast.

[joeb33050]

Railing against someone who is simply riding the wave of ammo shortage is not for me. If you don't want ANY item (flea market or otherwise) don't buy it. It's just as simple as that. We are a capitalist nation. It has made this nation great.

I'm not a Capitalist, you probably aren't either, nor are the vast majority of the citizens or members of this forum. This isn't a capitalist nation, it's a republic. "Capitalist" isn't in the Constitution, nor in the Declaration of Independence. Capitalism is an Economic organizational model, as are Socialism and Communism. None of these three has ever been tried in the pure form.


We all have options. That guy with high prices at the flea market doesn't owe us anything except that his product be "as advertised".

Don't buy into the idea that the world owes us ANYTHING. It doesn't.

Stop being silly. Of course we're owed some things. Lots of things. The right to free speech, to assemble, to bail, to practice our own religion. To receive Social Security and Medicaid, the poor have the right to Medicaid. We have the right to collect unemployment compensation, to form unions, to join those unions. We have the right to an economy without illegal trusts or monopolies, to a police force and fire department where they exist, to a K-12 education for FREE, to get overtime after 40 hours of work, to our sexual preference, haircut style and for some unexplained reason-the right to wear cowboy hats.
This society, like all societies, is in one sense a compilation of rights and responsibilities that are in a constant process of change. We assume responsibilities and in return get rights. We don't want to assume responsibilities, and do want rights. We don't want to pay more taxes, but do want to have a better medical system.




I don't care what anyone wants for their product. If it is more than I want to pay, I DON'T BUY IT. THAT is what makes the world go around. Period!

FWIW
Dale53
Is that clear?
joe b.

[outdoorfan]

"...The right to free speech, to assemble...to bail, to practice our own religion...We have the right to an economy without illegal trusts or monopolies...to our sexual preference (Sick, and in a limited way)...haircut style and for some unexplained reason-the right to wear cowboy hats...to form unions, to join those unions"


The above are rights. The below are priviledges. Huge difference between the two. Rights come from the Creator. Priviledges come from man. Not separating the two demonstrates the collectivist mindset.


"to a police force and fire department where they exist, to a K-12 education for FREE, to get overtime after 40 hours of work...To receive Social Security and Medicaid, We have the right to collect unemployment compensation."

[felix]

Still not correct. The only right anyone has is his God given FREE WILL. ... felix

[outdoorfan]

Still not correct. The only right anyone has is his God given FREE WILL. ... felix


With limitations. Nobody has the right to violate somebody else's rights. Government was not ordained by God to be a "provider government". This has created all kinds of problems, and it's the people's fault for asking/allowing it to happen. Conversely, if 90% of the people want to have a "provider government", then it's not right that they bind/force the other 10% into that same predicament.

In the example in this thread, that man trying to sell his ammo for a gazillion dollars has every right to do so, and he doesn't deserve to be lectured or sneared at for doing so. He's not hurting anyone. He's well within his Creator-endowed rights to to what he did.

[thx997303]

bull puckey.

He was well within his right to sell it for whatever he wants, and anybody is well within their rights to not buy it and to tell this person to shove it.

If anybody is price gouging, they deserve every rude and snide comment they get.

[76 WARLOCK]

Social Security, medicare, medicaid, and unempolyment compensation are not rights.

[sundog]

Felix. And one man will use this right for good, and another evil.

[RayinNH]

I agree that person has the right to price his goods at whatever he wants. If someone is stupid enough to pay the price so be it. Just look at some of the selling prices of boolit moulds on Ebay, incredible, for current production stuff no less. However if the SHTF, that price might seem like a bargain,at least to a non reloader...Ray

[lunicy]

I agree w/ most. If the guy wants to sell them at such a high price, so be it. If he doesn't sell, he goes out of business and the next best guy takes over. That's the way it works.

Now, I would have messed with him a bit, but that's cuz I'm a smart ***.

(So.... You sell them golden rounds yet?) HAHAHA

I also agree with Felix. The only few rights you and I truly have, are god given. The rest of your "rights" are issued and revocable by governing bodies.

[felix]

Perfectly said, Corky (Sundog). Man's choice. Heaven or Hell. The Heaven's attainment commandments were given in the New Testament. The Hell's avoidance commandments were given in the Old Testament. The Armies are lead by Gabriel and Satan. Clark Dunlap, a friend of mine from long ago not knowingly said it best: "It's a wreck and I'm in it". The meaning is clear. We are the pawns and the prize of these two armies. ... felix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVN2MMuiedI&feature=sdig&et=1242466852.02

[theperfessor]

I've left some flea market/gun show dealers a business card with my phone # on it and a description, date, and my paying price for what they have for sale. I don't get snide or anything else with them, I just tell them I can't pay what their asking for their stuff but I am interested at another price for a certain length of time.

Sometimes I get at call, usually not, but I have picked up a few things at the price I thought they were worth to me. At the end of a slow show, some dealers get tired of packing up the same stuff and need some gas/food money for the road so I try to be near at closing time.

For me it works better to be direct but non-confrontational. Often if a booth is run by a husband/wife team I make sure the wife gets my card, or at least knows of the offer. If I'm not interested in something at any price I just quietly walk by. If it's overpriced, I leave a card. If its priced OK I buy it on the spot.

Keeping my ego out of my business deals works for me and is very satisfying in the long run, and I won't go out of my way to hurt another person's feelings unnecessarily. Offended people WON"T DO BUSINESS WITH YOU!

YMMV.

[Dale53]

BINGO!!!

Dale53

[Echo]

According to one person's signature, Ramsey Clark (or was it Ramsey Lewis - I get so confused!) said that a right is not something someone gives you, it is something no one can take away. So. No right to Medicare, no right to medical care, no right to fire and police protection, &cetera. Those are privileges! And they are confered by society, which is why we live in a society and not in a tree.
>
We are a capitalistic society, at least until BO finishes his agenda. This society is governed as a democratic republic. As a capitalistic society, I have the privilege of pricing my primers (if I had any to sell) at whatever I choose. And you have the right to not buy them.
>
Personally, if I were a shopkeeper with primers to sell, I would ration them, but would sell them at the standard markup until they were all gone. No ripoff observed...

[R.C. Hatter]

:violin:Regardless of a vendor's asking price, if it's more that what I wish to pay, for any reason, I just DON'T BUY ! If enough people refuse to be ripped off, these ripoff scoundrels will soon either lower their price, or keep their goods and make NO sales. Confrontation is not necessary, THEY will be confronted by economics if they think too highly of their goods.

[Recluse]

Is that clear?
joe b.

Un-freaking-believable.

Boy, I can now see why and where so many folks here have problems with your "facts." You got so many things wrong in your little red-responses up above, it's not even funny.

More like pathetic. :rolleyes:

Just a hint: Communism is not an economic system. It's a governing philosophy/system. Economies and governing systems usually form a parallel, such as communism and socialism, democracy and capitalism. However, they can be mixed, to an extent and China is such an example. Solid, hardcore communist government (Politburo), but a capitalistic export economic system, yet socialistic in that the state owns the factories.

Some of the items you state as "rights" are absolutely no such thing.

So here's another hint: Do not confuse rights with laws.

:coffee:

[joeb33050]

About 15 minutes with a dictionary would clear this all up, and show you that you're wrong. You do have the right to be wrong, so you don't have to get a dictionary. You also have the right to sing the blues, and I have the right not to listen. Here's a hint: Babbling without any knowledge makes you look dumb. Either get some knowledge, or stop babbling, or look dumb.
joe b.



Un-freaking-believable.

Boy, I can now see why and where so many folks here have problems with your "facts." You got so many things wrong in your little red-responses up above, it's not even funny.

More like pathetic. :rolleyes:

Just a hint: Communism is not an economic system. It's a governing philosophy/system. Economies and governing systems usually form a parallel, such as communism and socialism, democracy and capitalism. However, they can be mixed, to an extent and China is such an example. Solid, hardcore communist government (Politburo), but a capitalistic export economic system, yet socialistic in that the state owns the factories.

Some of the items you state as "rights" are absolutely no such thing.

So here's another hint: Do not confuse rights with laws.

:coffee:

[waksupi]

Why doesn't it surprise me, what Joe considers "rights"?

[Recluse]

About 15 minutes with a dictionary would clear this all up, and show you that you're wrong. You do have the right to be wrong, so you don't have to get a dictionary. You also have the right to sing the blues, and I have the right not to listen. Here's a hint: Babbling without any knowledge makes you look dumb. Either get some knowledge, or stop babbling, or look dumb.
joe b.

Once again. . . unfreakingbelievable.

Yes, you DO have the "right to be wrong," and you, sir, exercise and abuse that right more than just about anyone around here.

Problem is, when you try to throw around your "credentials" as a "published author (would that be a self-published author, Joe?), you are putting yourself on the pedestal of Authority. As such, you need to make sure you are correct in what you espouse.

And again, I reiterate: Your little responses in red on the previous page are so filled with so many egregious errors that it seriously calls into question the accuracy and/or validity of anything you have written previously.

You did not state your little responses as opinions, but rather as facts. THAT is what makes you WRONG because your "facts" are just flat WRONG, PERIOD--And no "dictionary" will ever change that.

I used to think Bret was a little rough on you. Not anymore.

:coffee:

[canyon-ghost]

No, Gentlemen, Joe has a point there. If YOUR government owes me Social Security and Medicare, I should get them. The deal they made is what they need to fulfill. There is nowhere on earth that rights are a matter of opinion. If I'm working 85-90 hours a week while you're home with mom populating the world, you owe me. You cannot tell me that Social Security is just your politician's piggy bank and I'm stupid to pay into it and all the other taxes I pay. You cannot rob people and just say you changed your mind, it isn't right.

There's a right and a wrong, there will be a day of reckoning!

[9.3X62AL]

Well, I hope all those $80 boxes of 45 ACP ammo and $8 boxes of 100 primers taste good with ketchup, 'cause from my perspective the sellers of same can have them for dinner. Or as suppositories, if so inclined.

[Recluse]

So Canyon-Ghost, is affordable housing a right? A good job? How about healthcare--is it a right? What about a college education? What about a reliable automobile to park in your affordable house's garage after your right-to-a-college education guaranteed you the right to a good job, of which was contained your right to healthcare?

Social Security is not a right--it's a law written by politicians in order to favor more votes among a particular segment of the constituency. And unless 3/4's of the States want to hold a Constitutional Convention and ratify a new Amendment, thus making SS a right, it will remain a law.

And you know what they say about those who make the laws. . . those who make 'em can also break 'em. And no, it ain't right. Not by a long shot.

For the record, I also agree 100% about those of us who sweat full-time in order to feed those who stay pregnant and do drugs full-time. I'm for putting them to work cleaning up our highways, inner-cities (of which most of them tore up in the first place), fixing up low-income housing, running errands for our elderly citizens. . . . and those that can be trusted. . . putting them to work MAKING MORE PRIMERS! :)

I hear ya, fellow Texan, but don't confuse rights with laws or opinions with facts. That's how the liberals manipulate those who don't know better.

:coffee:

[outdoorfan]

Perfectly said, Corky (Sundog). The Armies are lead by Gabriel and Satan. Clark Dunlap, a friend of mine from long ago not knowingly said it best: "It's a wreck and I'm in it". The meaning is clear. We are the pawns and the prize of these two armies. ... felix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVN2MMuiedI&feature=sdig&et=1242466852.02


Felix, that' s just RIGHT ON!

[theperfessor]

Echo -

The local gunshop is rationing primers - 400 per person max - but the price is still about the same ($32-34/1000), maybe up a couple bucks from a year or so ago but no gouging. I understand the rationing, it keeps all the customers reasonably happy. The owner is smart enough to want to stay in business for the long haul.

It's his choice to balance the short term vs long term economic benefits by setting his terms and prices. It's my choice to buy or not to buy under those terms. Pure capitalism, period. I love it!

[Heavy lead]

No, Gentlemen, Joe has a point there. If YOUR government owes me Social Security and Medicare, I should get them. The deal they made is what they need to fulfill. There is nowhere on earth that rights are a matter of opinion. If I'm working 85-90 hours a week while you're home with mom populating the world, you owe me. You cannot tell me that Social Security is just your politician's piggy bank and I'm stupid to pay into it and all the other taxes I pay. You cannot rob people and just say you changed your mind, it isn't right.

There's a right and a wrong, there will be a day of reckoning!


Felix has got it right, only free will, the rest are manufactured by mankind. We wouldn't even would have had that without Eve and the apple, since we took a bite, we must have had a little :evil: in us already.

Joe, maybe you ought to look at the dictionary after you take your boot out of your jaw and understand the difference between dumb and ignorant. Talk about a Howard Dean moment.

Capitalism simply is the right to free commerce, it's not some jacked up theory anybody thought up over a jug of juice. It simply exists in free societies much more than totalitarian societies.

As far as a new medical system, we have no "medical system". The problem with it is we have become ignorant as a society about medical care and death.

There will be a day of reckoning, and it won't be on this earth, that is written. I'm no thumper either, but it is what it is.

Until then I'll take pride in taking care of me and mine, that seems to be a "lost right" people have (mostly NOT on this board) mostly forgotten about. I do know that pride is one of the seven deadly sins, but I'm convinced lack of any is worse. If you don't believe it look at us, and France.

As far as primers and ammunition prices, everyone has a right to sell them for what they can.
GM did cars to.
They'll be hell to pay when and if supply comes back.
If not we wish we would've bought now.
But everyone still can and should bitch.

[cbrick]

Our handloading store is at the range (owned by the range) and they also ration primers at 500 per customer. As a part owner I had the chance to see the invoice on recent deliveries of primer and powder and it was a bit shocking. The store paid nearly $140.00 for an 8 pounder of H-4895, last year retail was about $110.00. Primers were up some too but not as much as the powder. It probably seems like gouging to a customer looking at the prices but the stores mark up is the same as last year and the year before.

They ration the primers for a very simple logical reason. The main source of income for the range is the shooters that pay to shoot there and while the store does well the range is where the money is. If they get a shipment of primers in and one customer buys them up the range has one shooter, spread the primers among many reloaders and the range has many shooters.

The perfessorr has it right, capitalism works, well as long as government stays out of the way.

Rick

[canyon-ghost]

Recluse, Gents, albeit laws are not rights, economic systems are not governments, the facts are that Joe taught me to heat treat lead, anneal brass, and a few other "self-published" tools of the trade.
Television and books has us all repeating 'capitalistic society' like it's a good reason for everything. They collect our taxes and should furnish the services they say. Social Security was made law by a Democratic president now, you got another one.

Having to work with convicted felons, no, I don't trust many people with the elderly or primers! I bought ahead of time, before hussein, and don't need primers. Same law of supply and demand.

[Noxi0uS]

LOL, good to see you guys are a lively bunch, I'm new to the reloading/casting thing, just starting out. But when I see something like what I described and behind the counter is some smart ass that thinks he is GODS gift and gives me an attitude after I asked him if $80 is right (I truly thought it was a mistake). In my honest opinion anyone who is willing to sell something, and I mean anything at such an inflated price(I can understand bumping the price up a little) becuase demand gets high is just taking advantage of a situation and in turn making that situation that much worse for the most of us. And if you pay $80 for a box of 100 target rounds in 45acp you need to have your head checked, now in 3 years I may be singing a different tune, seeing as so many people liked the IDEA of change so much... problem is noone bothered asking what. As the great Ron White once said "You CANT fix Stupid"

[shooterg]

Greensboro Gun Show(NC) last weekend - plenty of .45 for $20 to $25 for 50. .380 at $30/$35. Fair amount of primers at $32.99 to $45. Plenty of powder. Some AR lowers from $99 to $175. Capitalism works in the end - the people selling eventually have to price it where it will sell - or figure a way to make their product edible ! But I did like the days of penny primers....and I'm still shooting a lot of those from what is now the "good ole days"!

[sundog]

problem now is that there will be less than reputable dealers (the men who chose evil over good) who will attempt to sell crap stuff at premium prices.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Yup . . . $80 for 100 45acp is steeper than I'd go . . . these boots were made for walking, and there are lots of other booths to go to!

[smilie=s:

[evan price]

Funny thing: Wal*Mart may be out of ammo still, but my local gun store has Federal American Eagle .45 for $15.99 a box of 50, and PMC Bronze 9mm for $9.99 a box. Sold quite a bit, but still have a lot to sell. Also got lots of CCI primers for $35 a K. And the shelf hasn't been picked clean in a day.

I'd say the panic buying is slowing considerably. I'm hoping the panic SELLING will start soon so I can get some good deals.

[joeb33050]

They ration the primers for a very simple logical reason. The main source of income for the range is the shooters that pay to shoot there and while the store does well the range is where the money is. If they get a shipment of primers in and one customer buys them up the range has one shooter, spread the primers among many reloaders and the range has many shooters.

The perfessorr has it right, capitalism works, well as long as government stays out of the way.

Rick
I'm not sure what capitalism is, the definition that includes today's world would be book-length and out of date when published.
I am sure that modern day capitalism exponents do love that "free" market and A. Smith's "invisible hand"; and that the free market doesn't always work, and that that invisible hand is scratching the invisible ass when it should be taking care of the market.
You may have heard about the recent doings where the G had to step in to save the financial system and it's 5000 employees who "earn" >$1M, the GM and Chrysler end of the auto industry, and the (capitalist) economy from the worst recession since WWII.
Markets, the underpinnings of capitalism, do not always work. We know it now, we can read about the Dutch Tulips and the South
Sea Bubble and some of us remember the Housing Bubble.

Something happened to the reloading component and ammunition and gun markets recently so that the markets didn't work. If today matches the past the prices will fall and some of the big buyers will get caught losing money.
Remember Smith 41s and Ruger 29s and Ruger Redhawks, when the market went nuts? It's happened before, it will happen again.
It's a matter of economics, what I went to school for.
joe b.

[Leadforbrains]

Yes that individual has the legal right to sell his ammunition for 80 dollars a box. I also have the right to voice my opinion and say he is a ******* for it too.
Just because you can legally do something doesn't always make it right.

[badgeredd]

I feel that if an individual wants to PRICE his ammo at $80, I can have some fun with it, since he must have a sense of humor to be asking that much. I'd do one of 2 things: simply pass and walk away OR more likely...I'd inspect the box and contents very carefully to find the gold lining. I'd also most likely ask him if the price was really correct before I laughed at him.

Yep he has a right to price things however he wants...but I see it as a bit of entertainment too. At 6 decades plus, I find it more fun to laugh at stupidity than to be outright confrontational, usually. :bigsmyl2:

Beauty of a free market system, is you can make a choice to to buy or fly.

Edd

[cajun shooter]

I will have to say to the newbies on this thread that this is not normal for this site. Instead of worrying about the price of bullets at a flea market contact your congressman about all the stupid bailouts. That guy with the bullets is not taking money from your pocket(unless your crazy enough to buy from him). I watched on the news last night where every top CEO of every bank that took Billions in bail out funds also took an average of 24 million in bonus money. That's worth raising hell about. Make calls,write letters, this is Bull!! As far as rights go it's a very simple rule. You may do what ever you please as long as it does not interfere with another's right to do the same. We are not guaranteed happiness only the pursuit of it