Is this Linotype?

[outdoorfan]

I stopped at the local recycling place, and they had two half buckets of this stuff. All the pieces in the buckets were pretty much like this. I'm assuming this is lino, but could it be anything else? They let me bring these two pieces home to test. My Lee tester said that this lead is about a 19.

Lino?

[snaggdit]

I'm know expert, but with that hardness I would tend to think so. Some of the other variants are monotype or foundry type. Historically, monotype was single letters and linotype was whole words or full lines of type. Foundry type was the hardest and was used to make very durable sets of type for sustained use in typesetting. Lino/mono was often remelted and recast as it got worn from use. LASC has info on the alloy composition and hardnesses associated. Here is the link if you don't have it yet:
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

[Storydude]

Looks like Monotype to me.

[outdoorfan]

So, it looks like monotype, but it has the approx. hardness of linotype. :-?

[sargenv]

I would say melt it down and pay attention to the temp it melts at. Mono needs a higher temp than Lino.. Something a friend noticed when he did not clue in to the extra temp he needed to melt mono one time, cast with it and then discovered that his bullets were cutting in two when they hit the feed ramp of his 38 Super open gun. Just a tad too brittle for boolits.

[outdoorfan]

I don't have a casting thermometer; only an digital infrared one. Anyhow, I don't think I can do that test and honestly be able to tell the difference in melt points between the two.

Seriously, though, my Lee tester read 19. Granted, I only tested it once, but I made sure I did the test very accurately per the Lee instructions. So, monotype would be WAY harder, I would think. I'm really assuming it's linotype, but why the single letters? That's what I'm hoping someone can explain to me.

I think I will be going back there tomorrow to pick up those two buckets. Probably close to 100 lbs between the two.

[cbrick]

No real way to tell just looking at it. snaggdit is probably right, lino is normaly in strips and mono or foundry type in single letters like you have. However any print shop could have cast any alloy they had into whatever they wanted/needed.

Regardless of which it is if the price is good I would buy it just to alloy it. Foundry type is 15% tin and 23% antimony. Mono type is 9% tin, 19% antimony and a little of either of these will go a long way towards turning soft lead into a WW alloy.

I would cast some up & test it, this would give a far better idea what you have.

How much do they want for it?

Buy a good lead thermometer, be the best $30.00 you ever spent.

Rick

[outdoorfan]

Thanks, Rick. They want .15/lb. Can't beat that price. I'll give them a call tomorrow to let them know I'll be coming back.

I should add that I picked up 260+ lbs of soft lead at the same .15/lb. They didn't know the difference between soft and the type-lead except that it was harder.

[qajaq59]

but why the single letters? It is in single letters because the printers would assembled words with them in what we called a stick. In the 60's it was generally only for very large type used for headlines or ads in the newspaper. However in the old days every letter was set by hand with them. And if you were a journeyman you could do it very fast.
OK, so much for the history lesson.

[cbrick]

Thanks, Rick. They want .15/lb. Can't beat that price. I'll give them a call tomorrow to let them know I'll be coming back.

I should add that I picked up 260+ lbs of soft lead at the same .15/lb. They didn't know the difference between soft and the type-lead except that it was harder.

Don't tell'em. If he thinks its 19% tin he'll want the tin price for. Grab it and run.

After you cast some boolits using a known mould, one that you know what diameter the mould casts with your alloy check the diameter of this alloy. If it's a higher antimony alloy your as cast diameter will be larger. Use a good micrometer and not calipers for this, much more precise. Bear in mind that a higher antimony content will increase the cast diameter of 45 cal boolit MORE than say a 7mm boolit.

Rick

[outdoorfan]

Ok, so it's not all that strange to have linotype in single letter format.

[lylejb]

WELLLL, ya know this stuff sounds kinda strange....so you better just tell me where this stuff's at and what time they open in the morning....then don't worry about it anymore:kidding:

At .15/ lb you got to go for it. Get it in your hands now, before someone else does, THEN figure out how much you need to mix in.

[outdoorfan]

WELLLL, ya know this stuff sounds kinda strange....so you better just tell me where this stuff's at and what time they open in the morning....then don't worry about it anymore:kidding:

At .15/ lb you got to go for it. Get it in your hands now, before someone else does, THEN figure out how much you need to mix in.


Gotcha!!:wink:

That's the game plan first thing tomorrow morning. I'm guessing those two buckets must have been around 1/3 full. So, that's about 80 pounds, maybe. Ok, so I was very foolish for not just grabbing it right away! :bigsmyl2:

[Matt_G]

Another way to tell if it is lino is to melt it and then watch how it solidifies in the pot.
True lino is a ternary eutectic which will freeze at a SINGLE temperature. (464 F)

Have you ever noticed how a pot full of molten wheel weights will start going solid as it cools, yet for a while there is still liquid in the pot as well?
It takes a while for it all to go solid, depending on how fast the heat loss is.
True lino should go from being liquid to completely solid very rapidly.

[outdoorfan]

Another way to tell if it is lino is to melt it and then watch how it solidifies in the pot.
True lino is a ternary eutectic which will freeze at a SINGLE temperature. (464 F)

Have you ever noticed how a pot full of molten wheel weights will start going solid as it cools, yet for a while there is still liquid in the pot as well?
It takes a while for it all to go solid, depending on how fast the heat loss is.
True lino should go from being liquid to completely solid very rapidly.


Yes, I noticed that the last time I did some casting with it. That was also the first time that I had ever casted with it. It hardens in a split second, and then the sprue is harder to break open, as well.

[hammerhead357]

I am going to say it is foundry type but it would depend on the size. Most of the print shops I was familiar with didn't have the means to recast type letters of that size. They could and did recast their lino back into ingots or as they called them pigs. But none that I ever knew of had the means to cast the individual letters like those in your pictures. They bought new stuff whenever the print became dull. That stuff was hard as heck and would last a long time.
But whatever it is for 15 cents per pound you better jump on it and then worry about how to alloy it with other metal to make your casting alloy.....Wes

[jkingrph]

I thought linotype was used to cast full page layouts for rapid printing, thus it was melted and generally recast daily.

[Lead Fred]

Ill give yo a buck a pound for it

[454PB]

That looks just like the monotype I have.

Did you test several pieces?

Mine hardness tests all over, but none below about 25 BHN.....some up to 30 BHN.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Mono-type definately. I`ve got a 5 gal. pail of the same stuff from a hospital in house printing shop they closed down. Don`t get excited when you smelt some of it if a gray foam forms on the top of your pot. Give it a few minutes and stir it back in, then flux as usual. Watch what you ingot the alloy into, there is such a high tin content it may bond to what you are using as an ingot form. By all means grab all they have of this stuff and all the other lead they have for sale at .15 a lb.Robert

[snaggdit]

OK, just a few notes for you. Don't smelt it. Makes it harder to alloy small amounts into pots. Way easier to just throw in a letter or two (which will melt in and mix just fine). Also, when smelting the stuff the high tin and antimony will try to form an oatmeal on the top. I had that problem the first (and only) time I tried to smelt it. The good folks on here told me charcoal would allow it to flux back together and I tried it and it worked, stirring with a wood stick as well. Now I have 1 lb ingots of foundry that are more than I need to alloy into a 20lb pot for the 1-2% tin I would like. Fine for making hard rifle alloy, though. I'm glad I kept some letters unsmelted for pistol mixes.

[outdoorfan]

That looks just like the monotype I have.

Did you test several pieces?

Mine hardness tests all over, but none below about 25 BHN.....some up to 30 BHN.

I only have two pieces to test. I tested them three more times. I got 18, 23, and 16. My Lee tester tells me that my 2/1 ww/soft ht'ed 30 cal boolits are 25, so I don't think it's reading particularly low.

[outdoorfan]

I am going to say it is foundry type but it would depend on the size. Most of the print shops I was familiar with didn't have the means to recast type letters of that size. They could and did recast their lino back into ingots or as they called them pigs. But none that I ever knew of had the means to cast the individual letters like those in your pictures. They bought new stuff whenever the print became dull. That stuff was hard as heck and would last a long time.
But whatever it is for 15 cents per pound you better jump on it and then worry about how to alloy it with other metal to make your casting alloy.....Wes


As to size, these two pieces that I have are different sizes. One of them is .835x .920x.357. The other one is bigger at 1x..92x.475

[outdoorfan]

OK, just a few notes for you. Don't smelt it. Makes it harder to alloy small amounts into pots. Way easier to just throw in a letter or two (which will melt in and mix just fine). Also, when smelting the stuff the high tin and antimony will try to form an oatmeal on the top. I had that problem the first (and only) time I tried to smelt it. The good folks on here told me charcoal would allow it to flux back together and I tried it and it worked, stirring with a wood stick as well. Now I have 1 lb ingots of foundry that are more than I need to alloy into a 20lb pot for the 1-2% tin I would like. Fine for making hard rifle alloy, though. I'm glad I kept some letters unsmelted for pistol mixes.

I definitely won't smelt it except for a little bit in order to see what it's like and to cast a few boolits.

[cbrick]

Once again Mr. snaggdit is correct, if you see oatmeal forming on top of the melt DO NOT skim this off, flux it back in. I use saw dust and the oat meal disappears almost instantly, kind of a fascinating thing to see.

Rick

[sliverpicker]

Bottom line is, of course: Get it, send some to me.

A wee bit of history I don't see here is what my dad, a printer, explained to me over my many boyhood visits to the shop: He sat at a huge (to me at first, anyway) machine with a dangling bar of lino lead at the side being melted into a pot of molten lino. Something let the bar down as needed. He had sheets of typewriter paper in front of him from the newspaper editors and typed the stories and editing marks on a keyboard, and the machine cast and spit out little sticks of type the width of a newspaper column. (or whatever the machine was set for, type size (points) settable too within limits) The next day all this was recast into bars to use again. He swore sheep tallow was the best flux.

Here is the rub: The tin eventually evaporated. (He said it "burned" off) The mix wasn't eutectic anymore and hadn't been in awhile. At that point they were not too happy with the quality of the tiny letters they were casting, and they traded buckets or bars of it in on new bars from the supplier salesman, who is of course now extinct.

The point is, you don't always know how used the lino you get is unless you are buying made from new for bullet casting $$$ stuff. It may not be exactly of eutectic proportions anymore or it may not have any tin left in it at all. If what looks like lino doesn't seem to quite be delivering the expected results, scratch your chin a little, ring it with a hammer, (should ring, if it is a full bar anyway) maybe try adding a little tin to see if it makes a lot of difference.

I smile when I remember the last two new bars of lino I got. All the shops had been switched over to Offset Printing and other methods for almost 20 years when I asked dad if he thought he could still find some. He called the old salesman, who remembered two bars sitting in an abandoned part of a shop in another town where the new stuff was always stacked when they delivered it. Short story is dad went and got it for free. The reason I smile is that in the 25 years since then I have not been able to bring myself to melt any of it! I don't suppose I will: Dad's been gone for 18 years now.

[Dale53]

Here is a web site reference to the various type metals (keep in mind that the U.S. information may not be entirely accurate). It IS useful, however:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_metal

Dale53

[Lloyd Smale]

correct answer. Ive got a buddy who still does some type printing that i get my lynotype from and he told me that it was rare that any but a major printer would cast there own single letters. They casted the strips and bought the big letters. Most were monotype but if they need letters for say the name of there newspaper ect that they knew they were going to use every day they would have them made it a harder alloy. When they wore out they were tossed in with the next lineotype melt to help replenish the the antimony that was lost in use.
I am going to say it is foundry type but it would depend on the size. Most of the print shops I was familiar with didn't have the means to recast type letters of that size. They could and did recast their lino back into ingots or as they called them pigs. But none that I ever knew of had the means to cast the individual letters like those in your pictures. They bought new stuff whenever the print became dull. That stuff was hard as heck and would last a long time.
But whatever it is for 15 cents per pound you better jump on it and then worry about how to alloy it with other metal to make your casting alloy.....Wes

[WILCO]

The reason I smile is that in the 25 years since then I have not been able to bring myself to melt any of it! I don't suppose I will: Dad's been gone for 18 years now.

Great Story!! Thanks for sharing. I'd melt most of it down and make some boolits in his memory as he obviously procured it for your enjoyment. :Fire:

[outdoorfan]

I went back there this morning, and picked up those two buckets. I underestimated how much there actually was. The total came to 156 lbs. Then, I saw some "pigs" that were hard lead, but I didn't recognize what they were. I only had enough cash for one of them, and here's a picture of it. I broke off a small chunk of it on the end, and it tested at 21 bhn. It seemed quite brittle when it broke off.

The type stuff was an assortment of letters and small pieces, like as shown in the picture. I tested two more pieces, one small one and one with type on it. The type one came to about 20-22, and the small one was right at 12.5. I don't understand why the major difference between the two.

Anyhow, does anyone recognize what the pig is? It might be some generic shape, or maybe it was used in some type of industry that might give me a clue as to what it's composition is. BTW, it's almost two feet long, judging visually.

As to the type lead, the general consensus is that it's monotype or foundry. Foundry is much harder, but then why are my readings telling me that it's barely hard enough to be linotype?

[Dale53]

The "pigs" look identical to size and shape of linotype "pigs" that were in general use by the printing industry here in Middle America before the printing industry changed. So, I suspect these large ingots are linotype.

Dale53

[outdoorfan]

Dale,

That would make perfect sense, since it tested at normal linotype hardness. Thanks for that conformation.

[outdoorfan]

I'd like to be 99% sure what this type lead is. I'm too lazy to do the melting and testing, etc. that comes with that. I don't have a thermometer, I can't even melt lead where I live (stupid neighbors), and I have no experience with this stuff.

So, if anyone is up for this, this is what I'd like to do. I'd like to send five pounds each of these type letters off to 3 people. I'll pay for shipping. The criteria is that I want these people to be knowledgable (no noobs like me), have a good accurate casting thermometer, have an accurate bhn tester, and who have experience working (melting, casting) with linotype/monotype/foundry lead.

I'd like these three people to then tell me what their findings are and what their best guess is as to what it is. These three people can then keep the lead for whatever they want. I know some have already said that they're sure it's monotype or foundry, but that tells me it's not totally decided. And then why the soft bhn readings?

I won't necessarily go by first come, first serve, but by who I think is the most qualified. Sounds like there's probably three people like that who have already made replies to this thread. If it's not worth it for the kind of person that I'm looking for to do this test, then I'll just forget about it.

Maybe this is a stupid idea, I don't know.

[454PB]

Here's a picture of some of my linotype ingots.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/eddard49/Linoingots.jpg

The lifting loop is broken off of yours, as is the case with some of mine.

I've seen triangular, flat ingots, and semi-circular.

And here's a picture of both monotype and linotype:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/eddard49/MJSlinotype.jpg

[outdoorfan]

454,

Thanks for the pictures. My type lead looks just like that monotype, but the soft bhn readings make me wonder, which is why I'd like it tested by people (like yourself) who have some known monotype on hand.

And yes, those linotype pigs look just like what I saw. I broke the end off of mine so that I'd have something smaller to test the bhn with. I'll have to go back to the recycler (AGAIN) to pick up the rest of those.

[Hardcast416taylor]

What don`t you understand about my statement of "get all the other lead he has for .15 per lb.! Yes those other ingots appear to be ingots used by printing shops.Robert

[454PB]

If you want to send me a sample, I'd be glad to do some tests on it.

Send me a PM and I'll supply an address.

[outdoorfan]

What don`t you understand about my statement of "get all the other lead he has for .15 per lb.! Yes those other ingots appear to be ingots used by printing shops.Robert

Whoa, there!! I'm short on money right now, and I was especially short on cash at that time. But, I will find a way to go back and get the rest of those.

[xr650]

I found some lino and mono the other day for twenty five cents a pound and was tickled pink. After the score you just made I'm a pale shade of blush. :razz:

As Hardcast said, Go get the rest of any lead this guy has.

[outdoorfan]

I found some lino and mono the other day for twenty five cents a pound and was tickled pink. After the score you just made I'm a pale shade of blush. :razz:

As Hardcast said, Go get the rest of any lead this guy has.


So, I went back there today again to pick up the rest of that linotype. It was 200 lbs in all, not including the 156 lbs of monotype (maybe) and 260+ pounds of soft. I'm totally broke now. Pretty poor these days, like a lot of people are, but I couldn't turn down all that good stuff. At .15/lb I almost felt like I took the shirt off the guy's back that sold all of it to me. But, then again, everybody's gotta run into a good deal from time-to-time. It had been awhile for me. In fact, I can't remember the last "steal" that I got.

454PB graciously accepted my offer to check out that "monotype" for me. I'm curious to see what the deal with that is. I'm thinkin' that lead must have a whole bunch of antimony/tin in it because when I emptied the one half-bucket into the other one, that sucker overflowed. And it only weighs 156 lbs. The last bucket of ww's that I weighed was about 7/8 full, and it was a sold 150 or so.

[xr650]

Ya done good.

Eating is over rated anyway. :bigsmyl2:

[454PB]

I received the sample package of "monotype" from outdoorfan yesterday.

The first thing I did was test five pieces for hardness with the same erratic results he reported. I also tested a piece from my supply, it's the one on the left.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/eddard49/100_1022.jpg

I was surprised by the results, as I've never seen "monotype" this soft.

I then put half of the sample in my Lee pot and cast a bunch of boolits for testing. I used my Lee 300 RFGC mould, since it casts an easy to test sample, plus the fact that I'm very familiar with the results using various alloys.

The stuff cast well, and temperature measurements with my RCBS casting thermometer showed it casts well at around 600 degrees. I then did a hardness measurement on one of the resulting boolits, and it came out at 21.8 BHN......harder than any of the individual pieces originally tested!

Diameter of the boolits was .456" to .457", weight was an average 278 grains.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/eddard49/100_1024.jpg


I then measured and weighed some previously cast boolits from X-ray shielding, which is similar if not exactly the same as wheelweight alloy. They measured 12 BHN, are .453" in diameter, and weigh an average of 311 grains.

Sooooo........

I would have to call this linotype, rather than monotype, even though it certainly looks identical to the 2000 pounds of monotype I acquired many years ago.

The only other possible explanation I can come up with is that the type pieces have be repeatedly remelted without being reconstituted.

[Springfield]

Which tester did you use?

[454PB]

Lee tester.

[hammerhead357]

I am also surprised because as far as I know most print shops didn't have the moulds to recast this type of letters. But I suppose there is always the exception, and that may be what is showing up here. I just wonder if the shop that did this just used lino to cast the letters rather than casting monotype or foundry type. This is a puzzle that we may never find an answer to.
454pb if I get the chance in the next week to send some of my old large letters to you would you be willing to test them and post the results? I am just curious how they will test for you. If so PM me with your snail mail address and I wil see about sorting some out and mailing them to you....Wes

[Fugowii]

I am also surprised because as far as I know most print shops didn't have the moulds to recast this type of letters. But I suppose there is always the exception, and that may be what is showing up here. I just wonder if the shop that did this just used lino to cast the letters rather than casting monotype or foundry type. This is a puzzle that we may never find an answer to.
454pb if I get the chance in the next week to send some of my old large letters to you would you be willing to test them and post the results? I am just curious how they will test for you. If so PM me with your snail mail address and I wil see about sorting some out and mailing them to you....Wes

A lot of 'hot metal" commercial shops did have this ability. I was in the printing
industry for many years during the 'cold type" conversion and I never was into
casting. When I think of the lost opportunity to have more lead than I could ever
use in a lifetime I get sick. I installed photo-typesetters that were replacing the
hot metal machines and most would have given me any amount of lead I wanted
as they were never going to use it again. I can remember on more than one
occasion the owner of the shop offering to give me his remaining lead. All I
would have had to do it ship it home. :groner:

[454PB]

PM sent, Hammerhead.

[outdoorfan]

:groner:[smilie=b:
A lot of 'hot metal" commercial shops did have this ability. I was in the printing
industry for many years during the 'cold type" conversion and I never was into
casting. When I think of the lost opportunity to have more lead than I could ever
use in a lifetime I get sick. I installed photo-typesetters that were replacing the
hot metal machines and most would have given me any amount of lead I wanted
as they were never going to use it again. I can remember on more than one
occasion the owner of the shop offering to give me his remaining lead. All I
would have had to do it ship it home. :groner:

I feel your pain!! :groner:

[Ian Robertson]

This is foundry type. Large sizes especially will always be foundry type. It was meant to be used over and over again, mainly for large headlines. It often has a makers name or logo moulded into it somewhere. I have a pdf of the US printing bureau publication on type metal if anyone wants a copy. email me and I will send a copy which has a lot of good info courtesy of the US gov many years ago. griz762@gmail.com

[outdoorfan]

This is foundry type. Large sizes especially will always be foundry type. It was meant to be used over and over again, mainly for large headlines. It often has a makers name or logo moulded into it somewhere. I have a pdf of the US printing bureau publication on type metal if anyone wants a copy. email me and I will send a copy which has a lot of good info courtesy of the US gov many years ago. griz762@gmail.com


What about the little tiny pieces? How do they fit into the mix? If it's foundry, why the softer bhn readings?

[Ian Robertson]

Nothing is set in stone. The makers could do what ever they wanted with regard to alloy. Email me and I will send the document mentioned. It has lots more info than you might imagine, free.

[hammerhead357]

Fugowii, I just said that most of the shops didn't have this capability as far as I knew. I bought out several shops in Amarillo, Dumas, Plainview,Shamrock Texas and others elsewhere and never saw one that could recast the monotype or foundry type letters.
Yes all of them did recast the lino back into pigs and reuse it and most of them used enrichment metal to keep the metal good.
I would have liked to have seen the moulds for the mono/foundry type letters. I guess they would have had to have had a large inventory of moulds for the different sizes of letters and the different types of fonts that most of them used...Wes

[JKH]

I just aquired about 30 pounds of small monotype and 50 pounds of soft lead spacer strips for $2.50 at a garage sale :^ )

I did find that there were some small spacers without letters that were soft lead, all the rest are so hard that when I took a side cutter to them they literally shattered! I am wondering if the OP's small non-letter pieces are soft lead spaceers and this is why he was having such varying results?

I am keeping my monotype as is, it is much easier to weigh out for adding to other lead for alloying, all the soft lead spacer strips will get smelted into ingots though.

So, is what I payed a fair price? ;^ )

Edited to add: I had a 20+ pound pig of lino given to me recently, between it and the monotype I have it should last a couple years :^ )

Jeff

[outdoorfan]

The little pieces in my mix (at least the ones that I tested) were hard; definitely not soft lead.

[largecaliberman]

I stopped at the local recycling place, and they had two half buckets of this stuff. All the pieces in the buckets were pretty much like this. I'm assuming this is lino, but could it be anything else? They let me bring these two pieces home to test. My Lee tester said that this lead is about a 19.

Lino?


I would do a BHN test on it. If the BHN is a 22 on a Lee Hardness Tester and if it melts at 464 F. Then it has to be linotype. However, just by looking at it, it could be monotype. If the BHN is much higher than 22, and around a 28 BHN then it must be monotype.

[outdoorfan]

454PB just recently did another bhn test on those boolits that he cast with this type alloy. He said they're around 23 now. Too hard to be linotype. Maybe a depleted monotype?

[hammerhead357]

Well I don't know but maybe age hardening???? I don't remember if that is possible with lino but I think so. If I think about it later I may do a little reading to see if I can come up with an answer on that one. Maybe we'll get lucky and someone that knows will weigh in on this...Wes

[454PB]

I received samples from Hammerhead357 today and tested some, and here's a picture of the results.

For others viewing, Hh357 included a slug that looks like it was cast in core mould, it's the round one at the bottom.




http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2566/4015056483_1579ce443d.jpg

[hammerhead357]

Very good 454pb thank you very much. I think that we can see there was a lot of variation in the hardness of type metals. As I stated in my letter the round core sample was cast of Lino about 20 years ago at that time it tested between 21 and 22. I think that you marked it at 20.1 is that correct?
Now the Mono or Foundry type wasn't kept seperate so it could have came from several different shops or from the same shop. But none of the shops I bought it from had the means to recast the large letters and I still have about 350 to 450 lbs of the hand set type that I picked up many years ago. I think it just goes to show that one never knows what you will get buying used materials....Wes
PS once more thank you for testing this.... If anyone else is interested in testing some samples let me know. It may take a while for me to send them but I will when I get home to do so....Wes

[454PB]

After having tested dozens of these samples, (my own, Outdoorfan's, and hammerhead357's) I've come to the conclusion that testing individual pieces is a waste of time and misleading. It's far more accurate to melt down a pot full, then test a representative sample.

The only pattern I've seen in testing individual pieces is that smaller and thinner pieces are usually softer than larger, thicker pieces. For instance, the piece at the lower right is about 1/2" square, and less than 1/8" thick. The two that tested hardest are "cubes" of about 1" square.

[w30wcf]

Interesting thread. No doubt, the different hardnesses can be attributed to a mix of different metals somewhere in their history.

Linotype 25# bars- not always Linotype!
I have purchased these bars in the past and broke them up with a hammer prior to putting them in the pot. One of them that I had did not want to break up at all.
Turns out that someone poured a lead / tin mix into the same mold that was used for the Linotype bars. Glad I didn't melt it down with Lino in my plumbers pot!

w30wcf

[Wireman134]

I received the sample package of "monotype" from outdoorfan yesterday.

The first thing I did was test five pieces for hardness with the same erratic results he reported. I also tested a piece from my supply, it's the one on the left.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/eddard49/100_1022.jpg

I was surprised by the results, as I've never seen "monotype" this soft.

I then put half of the sample in my Lee pot and cast a bunch of boolits for testing. I used my Lee 300 RFGC mould, since it casts an easy to test sample, plus the fact that I'm very familiar with the results using various alloys.

The stuff cast well, and temperature measurements with my RCBS casting thermometer showed it casts well at around 600 degrees. I then did a hardness measurement on one of the resulting boolits, and it came out at 21.8 BHN......harder than any of the individual pieces originally tested!

Diameter of the boolits was .456" to .457", weight was an average 278 grains.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/eddard49/100_1024.jpg


I then measured and weighed some previously cast boolits from X-ray shielding, which is similar if not exactly the same as wheelweight alloy. They measured 12 BHN, are .453" in diameter, and weigh an average of 311 grains.

Sooooo........

I would have to call this linotype, rather than monotype, even though it certainly looks identical to the 2000 pounds of monotype I acquired many years ago.

The only other possible explanation I can come up with is that the type pieces have be repeatedly remelted without being reconstituted.

Did you quench those boolits in water to get that hardness?

[454PB]

No, air cooled and measured the same day.

[evan price]

Any type of type metal will always be questionable alloy unless either made from new stock or assayed. If the metal is in strips with sentences on it it is almost always linotype. Individual letters and symbols are almost always monotype. However, the cast shape is no guarantee what the alloy is.

Typically the shop would cast their own linotype (which that is not) or they would make the monotype if they had the font in their stock.

Let's say they needed a font they did not have for a custom run- they would order it from a type foundry and the foundry would use whatever alloy they used. Some type foundries charged a deposit on the metal which was refunded when returned. So the metal might get re-used many times yet again.

When the shop was done with them they might get melted down or they got tossed in a case in case of future need.

That means the alloy and hardness of the mixed lot of junk you have could be anything but still all be technically "monotype".

The thin slugs and spacers might have been cast out of anything they had on hand, they were just spacekeepers and didn't actually transfer any ink so hardness wasn't important.

[Tom308]

I recently used up 50 pounds of mono. I just threw some ww into the melt. Shot just fine. As near as I could read the LEE tester, it was around 21-24 BN.
Enjoy.
Tom

[HamGunner]

About a year ago, I found a print shop that was selling all their metal for $0.65 lb. They had several tons of pigs and I did buy a few hundred pounds of it, but bought all of their poured linotype scraps that were mixed with single large letters, soft spacers etc, and it has lots of single tiny letters which I always thought was called foundry type. Anyway, it was time consuming to pick it all out and separate, but I did sort out some of it, just for special mixing later. Mostly, I have been just pulling out the soft lead and making ingots out of the mixture. It is hard, but I have not tested the hardness. It does go from liquid to solid fairly abruptly, so it still must have the consistency of linotype.

I thought I was getting a decent deal at $0.65 lb. since it is almost impossible to find it these days. In fact, I was having trouble getting WW metal around my area back when the metal prices went out of sight. It may be easier to find a bit now (have not looked lately). Certainly at $0.15 lb. for hard metal, it would encourage one to buy all they could afford. You done good, no matter what it was.

[Lloyd Smale]

strips are made from linotype and most printing shops had a machine that made them. What is odd to me in all the pictures is that the bigger chunks seem to be harder. I thought at first maybe it was a matter of how they were cooled but youd think the smaller would cool faster and be harder. My guess in this is just like everywhere else there suppliers that arent as honest as ohters. Antimony and tin is expensive and im sure most print shops just took for granted the hardness of the letters they ordered and had no way to really check them and some suppliers probably took advantage of this and mixed alloys that were a little light in tin and antimony or reused traded in stock without replenishing anything over and over till it was on the softer side of what they could get away with.