Used Lathe w/Milling Attachment-Opinions?

[insanelupus]

Okay, I'm looking into the future towards retirement (no sooner than about 12 years, possibly as far out as 15). I've always been interested in making various parts and figured I ought to have another skill or two to fall back on in retirement, even if it's just hobby parts making, small parts machining, etc.

I have a cousin who has a lathe he'd let me buy for what he has in it. It's a Craftsman Tool Makers Lathe (Made by Atlas for Craftsman). It has a 4" swing and an 18" bed. He has the milling attachment and other accessories for it. He bought it from a gunsmith who moved out of Montezuma, IA in the late 1970s. He said he's never even used it since he bought it and that it is in the same mechanical condition as when he bought it. He said it does need cleaned and oiled, but other than that is in good shape.

My price if I want it is $500. Obviously I'd need to take a few community college courses to really figure out how to use it and get the most out of it. And obviously at this point I don't know much about the tools or their uses, etc.

So my questions to all those machinists out there who know more about this than I do:


Would this be a good starter machine for someone to work on and move up later on to something else?

Is the price a good one for a machine as described?

What kind of quality were the lathes/milling attachments as made by Atlas?

Am I crazy for buying this thing? :) Wait, maybe that one should go unanswered!


In all seriousness, I'm open to all opinions on this thing. I'm so wet behind the ears when it comes to such tools/machinery it ain't even funny. But I keep thinking this may very well be a good buy and a way to get into a starter machine I could learn on. Especially when he paid $500 in the late 70s and is willing to let it go for the same.

Thanks in advance.

[Storydude]

Atlas=Good.

If You don;t buy it, give me his number :)

[Jumptrap]

I had a friend that had one and a fella came by and inquired about buying it. My pal told him that if he let him have it.......UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES was he to ever bring it back..... and if he would do so.....he could have it for FREE.

Just save yourself a few shekels....like $1500 and buy yourself something decent. Those old Atlas/Craftsman lathes are so flimsy (not rigid), they have very little power......and very little everything else. My dad has one of the damned things...by and by we'll sell it in a yard sale when he croaks.

$500 is $450 more than it's worth.

[Beekeeper]

If you don't take it Will you give me the second chance to buy it?


Jumptrap,
I don't know about you but I grew up with one in the garage and it never in all the years my dad had it tweaked or was flimsey.
You have to have a decent table top under it is all.
If your Dad wants to sell his let me know.


Jim

[KCSO]

Well I will split the difference here... First off I have owned 4 Atlas lathes and rebuilt 4 more for my brother in laws shot. The lates I rebuilt were heavily used by the Martin Moter Company in the 1950's for production work! First off the Atlas doesn't have a V bed and that causes some folks to give them an automatic by pass. They are not as ridgid as say a good Logan or a South Bend, but for they money they are not bad.

I have done some mighty fine work with the old Atlas if you respect their limitations. First you need to know if the lathe has bushings or bearings. A bushing lathe should not be run for long streaches or at high speeds. The lathe yo describe would be the Atlas home lathe and would probably be bushed. You can check by running the lathe numbers on the Atlas site.
If it is a change or pick gear lathe you will tire quickly of gear changes and if you don't get ALL the gears the first time you go to thread the missing gear will be the one you need.

$500 in a NEW lathe will get you a Chingook 7x14 that with tweaking will make small parts, dies and such pretty good. A LOT depends on YOU , if you like the idea of using old AMERICAN iron to build stuff you will probably get a kick out of the Atlas. If you just want to turn out some sizing dies on the cheap then maybe you want a newer outfit.

What throws me here is the 4x18 as the closest Atlas I know is the 6" home shop lathe and there the beds were ??? 18 and 24 if I remember right. The milling outfit Sears sold was a Palmgren style milling vise mounted on the tool post and was good for small work and dovetails and such but would not be my choice for say mounting a Bo Mar on a 45 slide.

My 2 cents woth is that any combo machine will tire you out in the long run as you have to switch between milling and turning. I will always recommend thay you get a lathe and a mill rather than the combo unit unless you are strictly hobby working and are very patient.

Jumptrap has his opinions and some reasons to go with them, but there are an awfull lot of dedicated Atlas users out there who do mighty fine work with them and they served me well when I was starting out and had to pinch the pennies. You just don't push them as hard.

[deltaenterprizes]

I have seen a little lathe like that and could have bought it for $300 and passed on it. It didn't have a quick change gear box and those little lathes do not have power feed on the cross slide. Check out : The Home Shop Machinist Forum and The Home Machinist.
Buy a good machine and you will always be happy with it when you use it, buy junk and every time you use it you will be sorry you bought it!
Take some classes now if you can or go check out the machines in the school shop.
A 12''X 36 is minimum,IMHO.

[cheese1566]

No, ,no, no!!!!!!

I live the closest! I'll take 2nd dibbs at that price and take an afternoon drive to get it!

[HeavyMetal]

I had an Atlas, a little larger at 9 inch swing and 42 inch bed, and used it for may years as my stater Lathe.

I had power feed, if I could find the gears, and that was it's ultimate demise, I lucked onto a southbend for $500 at a yard sale with a QC gear box!

If the Atlas your looking at has a QC box your doing great, if not make sure it has a t leat a small selection of change gears, Sears still catalogs these I think, and buy the darn thing!

Some of the attachments are good and hard to come by these days so don't be afraid of it!

[Bent Ramrod]

I bought my Atlas 6" x 21" lathe about 1978 or 9. It has the squarish headstock and tailstock, unlike the more rounded earlier ones. It has Timken roller bearings on the spindle, and a decal on the headstock proclaims this. Your prospective lathe should have them as well if it was relatively new in the 1970's. If I recall, it cost $250 new, with a face plate, tool post, change gears and centers, and without motor, chucks or other "accessories." That's what all the tooling and stuff used to be called, which is why the Chinese, with their turn-key ready machines have taken over the hobby lathe business. I really wish I'd gotten the reversing switch for the motor.

My Atlas has the standard change gears and I bought the milling attachment, collet holder, chucks (they are 4" in diameter, which is maybe why your B-I-L says it's a 4" swing), steady and follower rests and a bunch of other stuff. That little machine has pulled more jobs out of the fire in the past 30 years than I can remember, and has more than made back its modest cost.

Yes, changing gears by hand is annoying, but it's nothing to wanting to make some threads that aren't covered in the standard quick-change chart. If all you are going to do is cut standard threads, OK, but if you're going to be repairing or restoring oddball foreign or antique gun-related stuff, you might be glad of the extra versatility. The biggest drawback I have found is the undersized hole in the headstock, but there are ways around that.

It does not have the rigidity demanded in a toolroom or production environment, but neither do comparable sized Chinese lathes. Last I checked, a Chinese lathe that was about the size of the Atlas was more like $750 or $800, but it may depend on which import catalogs you peruse.

You indicate you will be doing hobby parts making. You might branch out a little into onesy-twosey custom work for others, but do you see any point where you will need to take a tenth-of-an-inch chip off stock to meet a time limit or a profit margin? Atlas was in business for many years supplying hobbyists, gunsmiths and garages that needed a lathe occasionally but could not justify a Sheldon, Logan, South Bend or other heavier-duty machine because they simply did not use it that much.

Atlas is out of business, but the Clausing company in Kalamazoo MI still supports the 6-inch and 10/12-inch lathes with parts and instruction manuals, at least the last time I checked.

So I guess it's up to you. I would say if the lathe is in unworn condition and has the milling vise, all the gears, the tool post, the face plate and centers and at least the 4-jaw chuck and a motor, it's definitely worth 500 of todays inflated dollars.

[Dutchman]

I'm not familiar with an Atlas 4x18. They made a 6x18". At any rate, $500 is too much as it a fairly old lathe and you can do better with your $500.

If you're really interested in having a decent lathe for home use visit this website and look at the 8x14" & 9x30" lathe. The 8x14" is way better than the 7x lathes as it weighs far more and is sub .001" out of the box. I researched the 8x14" lathe when I considered buying a 2nd smaller lathe to my Birmingham 12x30".
http://www.lathemaster.com/ORDERPRODUCTS.htm

I've owned an ancient well used Atlas-Craftsman 10x36" so I'm very familiar with them. They're a light duty lathe but capable of sub .001" easily using a 4 jaw or 3C collets. I wouldn't pass up a lightly used Atlas 10" lathe for $750. The better condition used Atlas will bring a good price as there were lots of accessories made and they're still fairly easy to find. None of the Atlas lathes are called "tool makers" lathes.

For something you're going to have a lot of fun with its worth setting aside a couple thousand $$$ and do it right. You don't have to start with a small lathe and work up to a larger one. You can start with a 10" or 12" lathe. Do try and find a trade school or community college course so you can learn some basics.

Dutch

[Marvin S]

I use to have two of these a 6X18 or so and a 10x36 with QC box. As said they have a flat bed and worst of all it is soft. You cant get much of anything through the headstock, which will get old real fast. Look for an old Logan,Southbend,Clausing or something like that. At least with one of those it will have some resale. Google buying a used lathe and learn before you drop your cash. The smallest lathe I have at work is a 15.5X50 Clausing Colechester and can still make watch pins with it. My home lathe is a 14x46 Clausing and is not to large either.

[NoDakJak]

Buy it by all means if it isn't wore out. It is considered to be a basic lathe but you can certainly turn out some fine work with one. Lathes just are not common in the Black Hills area. About fifteen years ago when I was living in Belle Fourche i purchased a new condition Sears/Atlas, 12 X 36n for $1,200 and hauled it all the way home from Winner. It is one of the best investments that I have ever made. Yes it is a bit flimsy. I have a very hard time turning down rifle barrels without getting chatter. Most of my work is of much shorter work though and it works very well for this . I have made innumerable pins, parts and both resizing and swaging dies with it. When new it may not have compared very well with a new South Bend but it certainly was a step up from the very tired old specimen that I owned. It is a great learners lathe and will more than likely serve you very well. If you become more interested and involved in maching you can always update your equipment at a later date. Have fun and enjoy! Neil

[Morrison Machine Shop]

My opinion if you want a lathe and a mill, get a lathe and a mill.

[3006guns]

All of the handles and change gears on the Atlas are made from "Zamak" alloy, something they crowed about in their advertising. It is one step above pot metal and will break/shear just as easily.

The Atlas is a good machine for someone that just wants to say "I have a lathe". I'd keep my eye out for a 9" South Bend, twice the machine and there are still lots of them around. You'll pay about the same or a bit more, but it's worth it.

Be aware, spindle hole size is everything in gun work. Mighty few barrels would fit in either the Atlas or the South Bend, so you might be ahead to look for something with a minimum 1 1/2" spindle hole.

Edit: I thought I'd better explain....my experience is based on owning 10 lathes in the last 15 years, and I rebuilt four of them. three South Bends, Bradford, Hendey, etc. My "go to" lathe? A 13 x 40 from Enco made in China! As much as I love the old American iron, the Enco is smooth and accurate. I notice they use a plastic gear in the gear train deliberately for a beginner "oops". You just replace the gear. I'm not a shill for Chinese machinery, but I have to admit the machine is a fairly good value for the money and is a pretty good gunsmithing lathe. Whatever you do DON'T get talked into one of those goofy combination lathe/mill thingys......they're a joke to most machinists.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Whatever you do DON'T get talked into one of those goofy combination lathe/mill thingys......they're a joke to most machinists.

About the only people I hear praising these are the guys selling them.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Insane, I would like to add a hearty amen to all who said pass it by. I bought one of those tinker toys from a friend about twenty years ago. He bought it from another man who had not bothered to take it out of the crate. My friend unpacked it and found to his dismay what a bad deal he had made, so he passed said bad deal on to me. I came to the same conclusion and passed it further down the road. It wasn't long before the man I bought it from told me about a neighbor lady who was trying to sell an eleven inch Logan. I bought it for one thou and still have it. I would not want a lathe any smaller. Here is another bit of info about Crafsman lathes. I was given an even smaller lathe than said tinker toy. It was in need of a part and I was told by the good folks at Sears that they have not carried parts for their lathes for many years. My advise to you would be ,since you still have over a decade to work is, as the country comic used to say, [save up]. Get something you will be happy with.

[TAWILDCATT]

I have a sears dunlop.it works but only does firing pins and such.
some thing is not right with the discription."4".should be 6" nothing less than a 9" X 20" and better a 36"bed.google atlas 4" and see what comes up also "dunlop"
theres pictures.you can get a lathe from harbor frieght for around that and much better.
go to "GUNSMITH THE PRACTICAL MACHINIST" they have all kinds of information on old and new lathes.

[KCSO]

I had a Smithy combo machine and i can't say they won't do good work IF you take your time, but changing back and forth from mill to lathe to drill is a PITA and you will soon, 2 weeks tops, tire of it. For the same price you can have an adaquate lathe and a dedicated mill drill and if you have the room and the ability to move it the old non cnc mills are selling cheap now days.

[Trifocals]

I had one of the Craftsman/ Atlas 6" X 18" lathes with Timken bearings. It was fine for small, light duty work. My guess is that you would soon tire of it's limitations and want something larger and more sturdy, as I did. I would suggest you look for something with a 10" - 12" swing with a hole through the headstock of sufficient diameter to handle the largest diameter barrel you would ever anticipate working on. Remember, a large lathe can handle small work but a small lathe cannot handle large work. My advice is to become close friends with a good, experienced machinist, preferably a tool and die maker. Have him look at any used lathe you may be interested in purchasing. His opinion of the machines condition could save you hundreds of dollars and help you avoid a costly mistake. Further, don't be too hasty to purchase a lathe. Since your anticipated retirement won't be for 12 - 15 years, build up a good stash of dollars so when you find the right machine(s) you will have the money on hand. Don't purchase your first machine on impulse.

[Clark]

I have a 1938 minty Atlas Craftsman 12x36 lathe, that I got when a hunting buddy died.
It only weighs ~ 300 pounds.

I just bought a Precision Matthews 12x36, new from China, that weighs ~ 1000 pounds.

I shot 3 deer last year with a pre 64 M70 that I rebarrelled to 270 on the Atlas.
I have shot a 0.2 moa group with a Sav99 that I rebarrelled to 6mmBR on the Atlas.

I am trying to give the Atlas with tapered roller bearings, milling attachment, and lots of tooling to another hunting buddy, that retired while still alive.

Why replace and give away the Atlas when it can make accurate rifles?
1) Because it takes 3 times as long with the lack of rigidity to make and accurate cut.
2) The threads and chamber of a rifle barrel do not need more than the Atlas 1/5 h.p., but making barrel vises or other tasks make me want 2 h.p.
3) The hole through the headstock is ~.78" and too small for bull barrels.
4) Of the 7 barrels I have done with it, a few do not shoot as well as they should. I blame the difficulty in getting a barrel concentric in the steady rest.

[Char-Gar]

I am familiar with that little Atlas/Craftsman and it was the very bottom end of the hobby lathe market when made. I would look for something more robust and versatile.

Seven years back I bought a 1947 Logan Model 400 ( 9 X 18 ) lathe. I paid $800.00 for it and it came with.

Complete set of change gears.
Face plate and 2 lathe dogs
Scroll chuck
4 jaw independent chuck
Tailstock drill chuck
Milling attatchment (Palmgren)
Full set of Armstrong tool holders
Centers
Large assortment of tool bits, reamers, wrenches etc. etc.
Motor and counter shaft.

It runs great and productes good work. A 12" test bar shows less than .0005 variation from end to end.

It was a well care for machine that belonged to a fellow in Long Island NY. He died and it set in his shop for years before the family sold it.

The only work I have done on it is having the bushings on the 80 year old motor changed, plus the electrical cords and on/off switch. Yea, there was plenty of clean up, set up and adjustments, but that is how you learn about how the machine works.

Due to it's size it has it's limitations. I don't try and take off more than .010" in one pass or it will bog down. If you work slow and can live with it's dimensions it is a real cracker jack.

All of this is to say, with patience you can locate a good lathe that you can learn on and will also serve you well. I would pass on the dinky little Atlas and hold out for a dinky little Logan or South Bend. I know nothing about the dinky little Asian machines, but I wouldn't swap my Logan for a new one.

I bought this one on Ebay. Yep, I took a chance, but it was clean with no rust and the original paint in good condition. My gut told me to go for it, so I took a chance. I got lucky!

[TAWILDCATT]

are you sure its atlas.I have a dunlop and its the size you are looking at.
DONT TOUCH IT YOU WILL HATE HIM.I bought iit in 1939 from sears for $39.I have its twin now any cut heavyer than few thos will chatter.does it take a 1/4 tool bit?
has die metal gears and they swell and break.it was last made in 1946/7.
try lathetalk.com/craftsman lathes 109-212700