PP bullet mould in the makin

[littlejack]

Good evening fellas:
Seeing as money is tight, I decided to make my own paper patch mould for my Uberti hiwall 45-70. I bought a piece of brass today and began. The smooth sided bullet will have a taper of about .005 from the front to the base. Where the straight meets the ogive will be .440, and the base will be .445. I used these dimensions, because I have read posts from other shooters on this forum and the Handloaders.com forum using this approximate size.
I had to grind a drill bit to the proper shape to make the nose section of the mould. I have no idea how much it will weigh, although I was hoping for about 500 grains. The length will be 1.300 + - .050. Hopefully, this will have the right length for my barrel twist of 1 in 20".
Can anyone here give me a definate lenght of their smooth sided mould and its weight, so I will have one to compare?
Do any of you fellas load and shoot a tapered paper patch bullet?

This will be a push out slug mould, and I believe that the taper of the mould cavity will help drop the bullet out when cooled though. That is my theory anyway.
Jack

[303Guy]

I use a tapered boolit. Mine is a 303 Brit though. Mine is more of a topedo. I tapered the boolit to suite the shape of the throat. One objective was to seat the boolit in an unsized neck.

In this pic of a recovered boolit, you can see how the rifling progressively bites deeper toward the bigger base.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-909F.jpg

[1874Sharps]

Littlejack,

You have a cool project you are undertaking! I assume by the dimensions of the boolit taper and diameter that your intentions are to shoot this over BP. I think the length you cite will be about perfect. Your boolit will be more than 500 grains, I am pretty sure, and that should work just fine for most everything you will likely do with it. Good luck!

303Guy,

Cool pics and post as always! I will never forget seeing those photos of your mold in which that boolit is made!

[montana_charlie]

Can anyone here give me a definate lenght of their smooth sided mould and its weight, so I will have one to compare?
Do any of you fellas load and shoot a tapered paper patch bullet?
Mine are not tapered, but they are 1.450" long.
If your twist is 1 in 18, that length should work for you if you can get velocity up to near 1300 fps (for long range shooting).
CM

[littlejack]

Thanks for the replies fellas.
I guess the proof will be in the shooting as they say. I may be able to finish it today if all goes according to hoile.
Jack

[1874Sharps]

Hey Jack,

Be sure to post some photos as things develop!

[longbow]

Personally I think 0.005" is a lot of taper. It will be good for mould release but I am not sure about the alignment of boolit into the barrel. I think you would be better to keep taper to a minimum.

I bore or ream my push out moulds to perfect cylinders slighty undersize then lap a thou or so out to bring them to size and make sure they are very smooth. While lapping I slide the lapping slug in and out spending a little more time going out to create a very slight taper ~ normally 0.0005" to 0.001" is plenty for release.

Since you are using brass, you might want to coat it with a release or heat it to oxidize the surface a bit to avoid soldering to it. I seldom have trouble with steel but I did have some minor trouble with bronze so gave it a light coat of Never Sieze. After a bit of use and oxidation it was fine.

Having said that, I tend to cast hot and eject while the boolits are not absolutely hard.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Longbow

PS: If you show me the profile and five me lengths/sizes I can model in 3D and give you a pretty close weight.

[littlejack]

I finished the mould this evening. It came out very nice. Just damn near perfect. This mould came out more "round" than some of my Lyman moulds. Amazing what one can do with a chinese drill and vice.
I couldn't wait to cast some bullets, so I fired up the Colman and started cookin the 20--1 alloy.
The bullets dropped out weighing 502 grains. I couldn't have gotten any closer if I had tried. I weighed four and there was only a .3 grains variation.
The length of the bullets are 1.265. This should be compatable with the 1-20" twist of the Hiwall. They dropped out a little shorter than MC's but close for the first try.
The forward part of the shank, just behind the ogive is .442 diameter. The base measured
.445. This will be closer to what Longbow mentioned.
The mould will allow for some adjustment in lowering the weight, maybe 40-50 grains. There is no adjustment to add weight or length.
Now I can't wait to patch some and head for the range, probably Thursday. They will be loaded with BP.
If I can figure out how to post photos, I will do so.
Good shooting to you all.
Jack
I will let you all know the results

[303Guy]

If I can figure out how to post photos, I will do so.It's not too difficult - it's reading the intructions that the problem! (I'll let someone better able to explain .... )

For comparison (and just for fun) my 303 Brit 245gr boolit is 1.19 inches long! I've only just managed to size them for patching. These are not tapered, instead they are two-diameter after sizing. (The mold remains tapered - not the same one as before. This one is plain based).

Hope to see some pics soon.:drinks:

[Buckshot]

...............littlejack, You mentioned this so casually, "I had to grind a drill bit to the proper shape.........." that I just HAD to ask. Unless you have a nifty $4000 Darex or similar machine (Then I'd know), but if not, how'dja do it? :-)

................Buckshot

[calaloo]

Hey Littlejack. I'm glad to see you are sticking with paper patching. Is your accuracy improving?

[littlejack]

Hey fellas:
Well Buckshot, you probably won't believe this. I have a small Delta table top drill press, and an even smaller Delta belt sander with a disc sander on the other end. The disc measures 4.75". This is a very light duty piece. My dad had it to do small wood projects.
Anyway, I just used the disc sander to shape the bit to my satisfaction. I ground "sanded" the drill tip to match the old Lyman 457125 nose design. I went by eyeball. Even if both cutting edges are not exactly the same, if one gets them real close, the results will be the shape of the bigger cutting side. I know you already know this, being a machinist.
After casting and patching some bullets Wednesday, I decided to make myself another nose design.
This morning, I cut myself another piece of 7/16 (.4375) drill shank, (which is what I made my push out punch with) the same length of the original punch. I ground "sanded" the original drill to have not as much of a blunt nose. I finished it a couple hours ago and fit it to the mould, and cast some bullets with it. I like these better than the original, but the weight of the bullets went up to 568 grains from 502 grains. I will have to shim the nose punch to shorten up the overall bullet length and drop the weight to about 520 grains. I will probably make a third nose punch tomorrow, one that will match closer to the lathe cut moulds available.
I would really like to have a small lathe and a small mill, but for now these will have to do.
Jack

[littlejack]

Calaloo:
Good to see you're still vertical? and taking on nourishment.
I figured that if I was going to try the paper patch world, I needed a mould. Money is tight, and I am off work with a bad knee. Actually, I was "Administrativley Terminated." What the hell is that?
So, "Necessity is the mother of invention" and "Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome."
Now I have a mould, some paper from a very generous person from back east.
And, I have the wherewithall to try.
Jack

[303Guy]

I have been recently 'terminated' too! I get the odd contract job now and again.

I too shaped a twist drill to use as a mold reamer. I can assure you folks it is not easy! I got it right eventually.[smilie=1:

[littlejack]

303, it just takes a little patience.

[303Guy]

It takes quite a lot of patience and quite a lot of ridicule from my workmates!:mrgreen:

But when I showed them the boolit I had produced .... Hee hee![smilie=s:

Here is my third attempt and the boolit from the mold it produced.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-256F.jpg

I even got the size right - then changed over to patching so now I'm using the mold as a hollow point nose swage die.:roll:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-252F.jpg

It's all fun. Specially 'meeting' someone else who has done the same thing! :drinks:

[longbow]

I gotta say that I think it would be easier to make a D bit than grind a drill bit to shape though I have to admit I have never gone th edrill bit route. I make simple D bits and they work well.

The basic method is to turn a high carbon steel rod (drill rod, grade 8 bolts or whatever) to the shape of the boolit you want. Harden and temper then grind down to the centerline making a full length, half diameter "boolit". Hone the flat and you are ready to go.

I normally turn then mill to the centerline, then heat treat and hone as I do not have a jig made up for grinding to the mid point. This works fine except they can warp a little and then cut oversize. I usually aim for 0.003" under the diameter I want then lap to finish and increase diameter.

I think it is easier to do than explain. I couldn't find any better links with photos so these will have to do:

http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/d-bit.html
http://www.onlineclockbuilding.com/HERMLE/Hermle.html
http://kansai.anesth.or.jp/gijutu/kousaku/easyweb.easynet.co.uk/chrish/t-drill.htm

The second one does have a good photo of a D bit about half way through the article.

By the way, my heat treating furnace is a 1 gallon paint can lined with woodstove ceramic insulation and powered by a hand held propane torch.

Longbow

PS: There we go! I knew it was there somewhere. This link explains it far better than I can:

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5701/smallpipes/tools.htm

[Doble Troble]

You guys might be interested in this:

http://personal.geeksnet.com/soderstrom/ReamerMaking/HowImakechamberreamers.htm

I have a problem turning a nice parabolic bullet nose on the lathe. The last time I tried my bullets ended-up looking like crayons.

[longbow]

I usually cut a TC shape with the angle about tangent to what I want then just carefully shape with a file while the blank is turning in the lathe.

It is not a precise and exactly repeatable method but it is simple and accurate enough for me. If you make a profile gauge then you can file them very close by making them fit the gauge.

Since I don't have a milling machine, I just stick with the D bit. They can also be used to ream. A friend of mine said his grandfather was a gunsmith wotking for BSA and they used to use D bits for chamber reamers. If well made they produce a very accurate hole and finish.

Longbow

[Doble Troble]

Thanks, longbow. That helps. I like files, they're simple and they work.