200 grain SWC for .38 Special/.357 Mag?

[Landric]

Anyone know of an available mold for a +/-200 grain .358-.360 w/o a gas check in a SWC profile. I really like the 200 grain weight, and am casting a 358430 for .38 Special, but I'd like a similar weight SWC for magnum loads, and possibly some .38 Special as well.

Anyone know a source?

Thanks!

[selmerfan]

It's not available, but I have a Lee 6-cav from a group buy that throws 215 gr. SWC GC - a copy of the Lyman #358627. My .357 Max loves it! You might inquire around here to see if one is available.

[EDK]

Go to the web site for ballisti-cast. They are the successor to HENSLEY & GIBBS and should have what you want. They aren't cheap; but like the H & G, you can use the mould for years and sell it for what you paid for it...if not more!

I've got the group buy mould for 358627..and it's a good design...just haven't done much with it...want to see if I can get it to feed in my MARLIN Cowboy rifles; probably will need 38 brass. Glenn Fryxell, THE MAN FOR CAST BOOLITS, has an article about it at lasc.us...A bullet for all seasons. (Lots of good infor at lasc.us.)

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

[Landric]

Thanks for the tip, they have what I am looking for, a 200 grain SWC PB. Of course a 2 cavity mold is $115, and they want $50 for their handles. Any idea if I can use the Lee handles I already have, or do I just need to spring for theirs?

[trickyasafox]

you could see if there is interest for a group buy from lee or MiHec- maybe your not alone in your desire for it.

[Shiloh]

Seems pretty heavy for a .38

Shiloh

[EDK]

Seems pretty heavy for a .38

Shiloh

Back in "the stone age," there was a 200 grain SUPER POLICE load IIRC.

John Taffin mentions 358627 loaded to the maximum+ in a 357 Ruger BISLEY in BIG BORE HANDGUNS, page 103. This mould is d*** near impossible to find; eBAY listings usually go over $100 for a two cavity LYMAN; I don't know if there are any other versions.

There seems to be a lot of interest in heavier weight 38/357. I have a 4 PB/1GC version of NIGHT OWL ENTERPRISES 360180 WFN and my limited testing sure looks promising. I need to cast some more..some minor problems getting good fill out on the gas check cavity..play with the alloy and temperature. (They did have some group buy over-runs available yesterday in gas check format; I'd send a pm to them and get out my wallet if I were you.) There's also some 359640 group buys in the early stages from MI-HEC that may tempt me.

:cbpour::redneck::Fire:

I just remembered. BRP moulds in VENDOR SPONSORS has a 358627 in four cavity for about $100...and some other designs of interest in various calibers.

[oldtoolsniper]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/oldtoolsniper/200grain38357002.jpg

The one I own is not a SWC. It is a big boolit. I have not tried it yet since I can find no data for a safe load.

[Landric]

I'm working up a .38 Special load for IDPA SSR that uses a Lyman 358430 195 grain (with clip on WW lead mine drops right at 200 grains). The 358430 is a round nose, and for the application the RN is the best design as it makes reloads faster than any SWC profile. I only shoot that boolit in IDPA though, for every other application I like the SWC profile much better. I don't shoot magnums in IDPA, just specials, so I would be using the SWC boolit for all my magnum loads.

I was thinking of just getting the good ole classic, the 358429 for magnums, but being the fan of heavyweight boolits that I am, I'd rather have the extra 30 grains of lead and a little less velocity.

I also think the 200 grain SWC would have some interesting applications in .38 Special as a non-HP defensive load.

Back in the pre-Super Vel days, Winchester, among others, loaded a 200 grain RN in .38 Special and called it the "Super Police". I'm not sure the heavier RN did anything to improve "stopping power" over the 158 grain RN. I'm of the opinion that a heavy sharp cornered SWC just might. At any rate it would be interesting to play with, and who needs more of a reason than that?

[Landric]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/oldtoolsniper/200grain38357002.jpg

The one I own is not a SWC. It is a big boolit. I have not tried it yet since I can find no data for a safe load.


I have some, and the Lee Modern Reloading 2nd Edition manual has data for a 200 grain lead boolit in both .38 Special and .38 Special +P. IIRC it also has data for that weight in .357 Magnum.

[jdgabbard]

Guys for those 200g boolits, the advice I've been give, just use starting data for any 200g boolit and work your way up. Most are going to have a nose length of about the same. And any increase in pressure shouldn't put you over max.

Another idea for those with a love for the heavies, is to do another GB on the Ranch Dog TLC359-190-RF. I've been playing with it in the magnum, and it looks promising. I'm thinking I'm going to give it a try in the special at +P levels. Nothing like a 190g 72% meplat traveling out of a stubbie at about 700 fps. Thats enough to take down those pop cans!

[Wayne Smith]

For historical interest the 200gr .38 round was the British Military round in WWII. And this was in the .38 S&W, not the Special. They rated it as an equal mankiller to their .455 Webley. Of course, that one was going all of what, 400fps?

[jdgabbard]

That's faster then a baseball travels, and I sure don't want to stand in front if one aimed at my head...

[Beerd]

Here is some older IMR data that may be of interest:

[stubert]

Would an RCBS 200 grain mold for the 35 Rem. work?

[hornady308]

The IMR reloading data indicates that it is for a Remington 200gr RN lead bullet. I don't know how long ago Remington made those bullets, but I can't find anything showing that they are still available today. They appear to be swaged, not cast. I came across a full box of these a year or so ago in a gun shop and got all 500 for less than $15, but have yet to use them because I could not find any mention of them in reloading manuals. Now I know where to look, so thanks for posting the IMR data. I wonder if I can get these to work in my .357 Marlin with 38spl brass? I bet they would work in my Herrett.;-)

[Bret4207]

Would an RCBS 200 grain mold for the 35 Rem. work?

Yes, if you want a RN.

[Bret4207]

Back in the pre-Super Vel days, Winchester, among others, loaded a 200 grain RN in .38 Special and called it the "Super Police". I'm not sure the heavier RN did anything to improve "stopping power" over the 158 grain RN. I'm of the opinion that a heavy sharp cornered SWC just might. At any rate it would be interesting to play with, and who needs more of a reason than that?

Anecdotal evidence in books such as Henry Stebbins "Pistols- A Modern Encyclopedia" indicate the Super Police was a much better stopper. It figures when you compare metplat size of the 200 FRN (similar to the 311440 or 350009) to the standard 358311 type 38 RN. Yeah, it's going slower but which hurts worse- a tennis ball hitting you or a baseball? There was even a 38S+W 200 gr load similar to the 38-200 British load mentioned. The combination of the flat nose and extra weight meant more energy went to the target. I'm sure penetration suffered, but back in the day when shooting fleeing criminals was fine by everyone except the criminal what mattered was stopping him.

[LowPE]

Saeco 351 -- 200 grain FP no gc. Not a swc, but not a rn either.

[jdgabbard]

You know, I would like to see more of the heavy molds come back. You see them available for the 44 and the 45. but not that often for the 38.

[Hurricane]

The RCBS 35 caliber 200 grain boolit is a flat nose. The Lyman bullet is the one with a round nose.

[looseprojectile]

I have been shooting the Ranch Dog 360 190 grain flat nose gas check and the Saeco 180 grain rnfp in the rifle and can see no need for a heavier boolit. With a little load development you can go with mild or wild.
I have not tried these without gas checks though I am told that can work.
These seem to be accurate at any speed.
Only you can choose the alloy and speed. Ain't it great? I have about four loads that fill any need in my little .357 magnum 92 carbine. All my loads can be used in handguns also.
My coyote load is a 125 gr. jacketed hollow point at around 2000 fps.

Life is good

[GLL]

Mill the GC out of the bottom of a 358627 mould ! :)

Jerry

358627HP
http://www.fototime.com/764FE0DF38E319D/standard.jpg

[Landric]

That would be perfect if I could find one! They seem to be a little scarce. I am looking though.

[Ohio Rusty]

I had a Lyman loading manual in ...... 1976 or 1977 that had loads for the 200 grain bullet. I had some factory loads with the 200 grain lead round nose that I liked, but I could not find any lead bullets. I loaded .357's with near the same load data, but using the jacketed soft point 200 grain bullet for the .358 winchester. They shot great !! I always thought it would have been a good pistol load for deer, but using pistols for hunting was illegal then. I actually made those for my buddy's contender, but I shot them out of my Ruger Blackhawk.
Ohio Rusty ><>

[Bret4207]

The RCBS 35 caliber 200 grain boolit is a flat nose. The Lyman bullet is the one with a round nose.

My bad. I should have realized that since I own the mould!

[LouisianaMan]

Landric,
I'm with you--really like the 200g heavyweight in LSWC profile. Also use 195g 358430s for practice.

As I've discussed in other threads, I get about 720fps from a snubbie and 750fps from 4" bbl in .38SPL at standard pressures, and even the snubbie load drills STRAIGHT thru 6 water-filled gallon jugs at 10' and still drives into a 2x12 up to the shoulder. Anyone wanting heavy-duty penetration should reconsider the utility of such an approach.

Let me know if a group buy can work out--I'll buy! Would like to try casting some very soft to get the fullest possible HD/SD effect, too, while using harder-cast for my .357 carbine in the woods.