Things That Lee Gets RIGHT

[9.3X62AL]

Here and elsewhere, people tend to chip their teeth a bit more than what's needed about the things wrong with Lee products, in particular their boolit moulds. I'd like to change tack, and write about the things Lee gets RIGHT when it comes to their boolit moulds--from my viewpoint, at least.

First and foremost, their price allows a lot of folks with minimal disposable income to assemble a few moulds, thereby enabling affordable entry into this hobby field. The moulds aren't perfect, but let's keep in mind that a LOT of high-line rifles and handguns ALSO need some finishing after purchase by the buyer. Considering what you get for the price you pay, Lee moulds are a stone bargain.

No, I don't like them very much. Not me, not at all. I only have 17 of them, this includes muzzle-loader Minie and Maxi-Ball patterns, rifle designs, and an array of pistol types. The two I want to focus on herein are the Lee bore-rider rifle designs, and their truncated-cone pattern for autopistol calibers.

The rifle designs REALLY shoot for me. Two in particular have shined, the 312-185 in 30-06 and the 8mm-175 in 8 x 57 Mauser. After pouring and shooting a couple thousand of each through my rifles, both have become the go-to castings for me in those calibers. The Lee boolit consistently outshoots Lyman #311291--which borders on heresy, I know--but there it is there.

The Lee bore-rider design just plain WORKS. There's no state secret as to why that is--their noses actually RIDE the lands with a slight draggy fit across the land tops, about .3015"-.302" in the #312-185 as opposed to barely .300" on my #311291. The 8mm boolit's nose is about .3175"-.318", and it has a little friction when chambered--just scratched by the land tops. The boolit shoots much better than I can, owing to aging eyes and the G98/40's service barleycorns. Both boolits have drive bands as-cast with sufficient diameter to "clean up" when sized at .311" and .325" respectively, the throat diameters of the rifles involved. LYMAN, LISTEN UP........SIZE MATTERS. Same goes for RCBS, with expletives deleted.

Lee's best designs (JMHO......) are their autopistol truncated cone designs with conventional lube groove. (I have no experience with the tumble-lube variants, sorry to say.) I have used the 9mm/122 grain, 40 caliber/175 grain, and 45 caliber 230 grain TCs seated with .020" of boolit sidewall exposed above case mouths in 9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm Auto, and 45 ACP ammunition, a total of 9 pistols overall.......and cannot recall a misfeed in any of them. Total round count is well over 4,000 shots. No leading, either. I'll say it here, flame away as needed--THE LEE TRUNCATED CONE DESIGNS ARE THE BEST AUTOPISTOL CAST BOOLITS I'VE EVER USED. PERIOD.

[snaggdit]

That's my favorite in my 40. I think I might look at that 45![smilie=p:

[markinalpine]

Their 452-200-RF works great in my 1911.

[snaggdit]

That's what I have now, but just last week I had a bunch of jams in my Hi Point. It might be the new clips I just got or maybe seating depth (1.190 OAL), I will be trying it out a bit more to see if I can fix it. The SWC 200gr I have feeds fine.

[Trey45]

I use their 45 255gr rnfp exclusively in my Blackhawk.

[RayinNH]

I agree with you Al on the Lee moulds being a real bargain. The 312-185 does fine work in my two Krags, so does 311291 :-D.
As for the 9mm TC I just got one, six cavity, in on Thursday and will be presenting it to my son on Friday for his birthday. Glad to here it's a fine performer...Ray

[oldhickory]

LEE's 90341, (429-240-2R) .44rn boolit mold, all I can say is, WOW!...What a great boolit! I load it in .44SPL and would love to see a .45Colt version of the same design in 255gr. Most of their molds I've found to be good, but that .44 mold is definately a WOW! I can say the same for their 459-405-HB for 45/70, I have several Lymans and a Rapine also, but the LEE 405 HB is my favorite.

I like their push through sizers also for pan lubing and they make a REAL good melter for the $ too! I also like their reloading dies and the factory crimp dies.

I'm very glad LEE makes what they do, I just wish they would copy some of Lyman's clasic designs.

[Doble Troble]

I shoot a lot of the 200 gr SWC in the 45 ACP. Flawless feeding and I can't imagine anything more accurate (but this is from a guy who thinks the Loadmaster is an excellent product).

If it weren't for Lee I wouldn't shoot the variety of calibers that I shoot (maybe they're not such a bargain after all).

[dukenukum]

The .45 tumble lube swc works great in my Hi-points and the c309-160 is great out of 30-06 and M24 Finnish Nagant. :cbpour: :castmine:

[qajaq59]

I haven't tried their molds because I had such bad luck with their loading dies. BUT..... I can't knock their 20# bottom pour furnace. I was buying commercial cast bullets, and I've saved so much casting my own that if it died in 2 years I'd just buy another one. Those really are cheap.

[Shiloh]

I have many LEE molds. They cast quality boolits. Several of these are for .45 ACP

Shiloh

[Blammer]

well Lee make's RB moulds. I can't seem to find any other maker who makes RB moulds.

[Landric]

I'm new to casting, so part of my trouble might be me. However, I just haven't had good luck so far with Lee molds. I got several so I could try casting out on the cheap (as far as any shooting related hobby can be). I did learn while using the Lee molds that I like to cast, but I was not having great results with the Lee molds. I figured it was me and eventually I would get it worked out. However, I got myself a used Lyman 358430 and I have had great luck with it. Not every boolit is perfect (which is probably me), but the huge majority are good, and I tend to only find myself needing to melt three or four in a hundred. With the Lee molds I am lucky if 60% meet my standards, and my standards are not all that high since I'm still learning.

At any rate, while it might be me, I have found the Lyman mold works better, and I'm going to stick with Lyman molds (or other iron/steel) molds in the future. Luckily Lyman makes a mold for all the boolit designs I am currently interested in.

I have had good luck with Lee dies for handgun cartridges (I like RCBS and Hornady better for rifle, though Lee ones work for me), and I have three Lee presses. I'm just not that impressed with Lee's molds. Again, it might just be me.

[August]

I use a cowboy action bullet in .38 Special that has no crimp goove (bear creek). Without the LFCD, I would not be able to make this bullet run. It works great with the LFCD. I know lots of people think using a LFCD is next to cavorting with the Devil, but it is the only way to make flat sided bullets work without seating the ogive down into the case.

On another note, I have a Lee six holer in .401 (38-40) and the bullets that come out of that mould are absolutely perfect. They're even round! It starts filling out after only two or three cycles, too. I really like that mould and can't imaging turning out that many bullets with an iron mould, which would be impossible for me to handle because of the weight.

When I was a teenager, and got my first center fire handgun, the Lee Loader and a mallet allowed me to be able to shoot. Then, I had time and no money. Now, I have money and no time, so my view of such things has changed. But, that little Lee Loader kept me in business back then. I've often thought my parents were incredibly patient to listen to all that pounding coming out of my room. (I'm still talking about the Lee Loader, wise guy)

[Heavy lead]

The Lee Classic Cast single stage press.
The Lee Classic Cast turret press.
The Lee regular turret press.
Lee handgun dies.
Lee Pro Auto Disk powder measure.
The double disc kit.
Lee rifle dies.
Lee Factory Crimp Die.(this needs explaination, my 45 Colt is perfect, does NOT touch the case with the lower ring unless something is hugely out of whack with it. The 45ACP is perfect, it does resize case when needed and does NOT resize boolit less than .452, the 44 Mag, was a problem, the lower carbide ring is gone, and now works perfect)
I do like Lee rifle dies, but they are in third place behind Hornady and Redding. I still like them better than RCBS and Lyman.
Round ball moulds.
The 430-310C.
The 452-300C.
Love these two designs.
Lee sizers, don't use alox, but there sizers come in handy.
Lee mould handles.
Lee 20 pound pots.
Now I don't like for the most part most Lee moulds, that is not to say they are not a good value, they are, just like higher quality in moulds.

[jhrosier]

I used to cast with the Lee minie moulds when I shot BP.
Darn good design with the captive baseplug.

Jack

[45nut]

Love my Pro 4-20 and my 6 cavs!

[HeavyMetal]

Lee makes a lot of good usable product and Al is right many high dollar guns and gear need to be "finished" these days no matter who you buy from.

Lee also makes a good deal of product and at very reasonable prices and yes I still buy dies, and molds from Lee as well as many other things.

I also figure that when I "plunk" down my hard earned cash that some reasonable expectations of quality comes with any product I buy. For the most part Lee manages to do this and, considering the work load, they do it quite well.

Lee does deserve a pat on the back for making reloading gear that is both affordable and effective.

[thenaaks]

lee classic turret press...nuff said

[theperfessor]

I think Lee's genius lies in being able to manufacture useful products at low cost by reducing the design down to the minimum amount of material and processing steps necessary. For most people most of the time that's all that is required, and why pay more? Their products take advantage of modern manufacturing machines, materials, and techniques. In my view there is a certain sort of minimalist elegance about their products.

For some people Lee's products just don't meet their expectations in one way or another. I think some of their recent problems came from the explosion of sales for all types of gun related items. It takes time to train a workforce to operate a lot of the new CNC/automated machines. You don't just put a part in and then stand there and watch it. Often the operator will be handling two or more machines, and they will also be the inspector. Tools need to be replaced and re-zeroed. Instruments have to be checked and calibrated. Any errors along the way can cause QC problems. Think about it - if Lee sells 25 good molds, or 25,000 good molds, nobody will hear about. Sell 25 bad molds here in a Group Buy and even the new server will fill up with angry threads.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not very sympathetic for molds or dies with dimensional errors when those errors are outside the manufacturer's stated tolerance. But I don't expect a $20 or $40 Lee mold to be a cosmetic wonder that will operate smoothly without a little TLC on my part.

[462]

Other than a .44 seating die down-sizing a boolit and, yes, a mould that needed some extra attention, Lee has always done right by me. I've decapped many hundreds of crimped .30-'06 and .303 Brit. cases without a pin failure -- not even when I once tried to decap a Berdan primed case, which was not the case with a set of RCBS dies. The quality of their boolits is at least the equal of RCBS and Lyman, if not better. Compared to other brands, their case prep tools may as well be free. Oh, and their die lock-nuts!, not to mention the no-tools-required-to-adjust dies.

Quality and value will always in the eye of the buyer, but for the price and job performance I will continue to buy Lee products.

[bedwards]

I've never had a minutes trouble with Lee customer service if I had a something that didn't work right or something breaks. They shipped what I needed right out for free nuff said.

be

[mooman76]

What has Lee done right? Got me into reloading. If it wasn't for the great prices on Lee products I never would have gotten into reloading because the price of other products were just too high for my budget. I have some other products too be for the money Lee turns out a great product and I wonder sometimes how they can do it at such a cheap price.
I'm also tired of people knocking Lee products. Some people want a superior quality product as good as the others that sell for 3x the $ and whine if they get something with a few defects they have to look through a microscope to see. If you don't like the product move on to a product that meets your high demands. That's what is great about this country, you can do that. They must be doing something right though because they are still in business. Seems to me the other companies have their share of defects too though!
I do wish they still made their hollow point moulds though. Those of you that have made HPs know how sluggish it goes and if you have ever used a Lee and see how much faster it is, there is a big difference. I was fortunate enough to pick up a couple good used ones.

[Ken O]

Many years ago I bought a Lee Perfect Powder measure. I was mostly shooting pistol using ball powders and this thing was a ***! I threw it aside and forgot about it. I have a RCBS, Dillon, and Hornady Deluxe measures, and they did a pretty good job with all except stick powders.

Then a gun rag (Precision Shooting I think) did a review of all the measures using stick powder, and non came close to the Lee Perfect, and that included the very expensive Harrel and others. They had the SDs of each, and all the figures.

So, I dug it out and mounted it on the bench to give it another try. It does the best job with stick of any of the measures I have, just don't use ball powders with it.

[Willbird]

The Lee 6 cavity mold is the BEST product they have I think. Their dies are ok for oddball things because they are cheap. Their 1 and 2 cavity molds are better than no mold.

They should make an upscale 2-3 cavity that is based on the 6 cavity design.

Bill

[runfiverun]

i would like to see them make an upscale mold series.
with better aluminum,more exact tolerances etc..
they could also step up their reloading gear,they got a ton of guy's into reloading why lose them when they want better equipment?

[lurch]

I use some Lee equipment:


Modified pot (PID temp control)
Auto Prime (this is the only thing that they do that I will go out of my way to replace should it break)
44 Carbide die
Powder funnel


And that's about it. Nothing else from Lee except a book and that's not *really* equipment - though it is quite useful after you get past the propaganda at the beginning.

I have tried a couple of molds years ago and swore I'd never own another. Without getting into bashing, let's just say quality was not where it needed to be, even considering the price point.

Their dies are OK but I just prefer others.

So yes, they do some stuff right, especially given their price, but I'm not a fan. Given that a lot of folks cut their teeth on Lee stuff because it's cheap and that gets them or allows them to get into reloading is a huge benefit. Lee has their place, but generally not on my bench.

[fredj338]

The Lee 6 cavity mold is the BEST product they have I think. Their dies are ok for oddball things because they are cheap. Their 1 and 2 cavity molds are better than no mold.

They should make an upscale 2-3 cavity that is based on the 6 cavity design.

Bill

E-mail them & propopse this. I contacted them about making a 4cav design like their 6cav. Fits under their 20# pot better & I think a bit faster casting 4cav than 6cav. They said no, but if enough people ask, maybe.
I don't like a lot of Lee stuff. There dies are ok, but I prefer Redding. Their 2cav molds are crap IMO, just so cheaply made & require quite a bit of care using to get good bullets & not damage the molds. The 6cavs are nice but as w/ all Lee stuff, quality control is spotty. They have several good bullet designs but then execute many poorly, like their SWC for most calibers. The 20# pot is a bargain for the hobby caster. I would NOT own a Lee reloading press, but it's would be better than not reloading.

[Doc_Stihl]

6 Cavity 310Gr WFN 429 - The best 44 bullet I've found. 6 Cavity Lee Mold.
Primer Pocket Cleaner
Lee Case Trimmers. (Trim brass sitting on the sofa and watch Uncle Ted slay swamp donkeys)
Pro1000 - Budget progressive that's so simple it confuses people.
Powder Dip Cups

[Old Ironsights]

When lee tries for complex, there can be problems. But when it comes to Neanderthal Proof simple reloading gear Lee is almost impossible to beat.

Push-through sizing is genius. As is the "Whack a mole" Lee loader. People really want too much when it comes to reloading. Sure, a Lee Loader is totally inappropriate for a IPSC shooter, but crikey, 90% of reloaders are like 90% of shooters, you only buy/reload in small quantities. WE are the statistical outliers here, and 90% of people who think they need a Dillon Progressive are deluding themselves.

I also LOVE the responsiveness of lee when it comes to parts. Even when they get it wrong, they get it wrong relatively quickly and fix it with a smile - also relatively quickly. Sure, there are have been issues with some custom moulds, but still...

I like Lee...

[pascalp]

You said Lee Molds, let me think about ... not too bad !

http://pascalp2.free.fr/images/Lee/Lee_molds_P1010058_cut_1024.jpg
This is an old pic, some more came.

My prefered:
Lee 452-200-SWC (H&G #68) 6 cav , first class for 1911 45acp and wheel gun
Lee 358-105-SWC (called mini #68) 6cav, good for 38/357 and 1911 9mm (.356)
Lee C312-155-2R for my 30 caliber (30-30 , 300sav , 30-284)
And a bunch of others

Ranking:
6 cav : great
2 cav : good
1 cav : good but so slowwwww
1 HP cav : so-so , it works

Maybe what I like best ,their resizers , push-thru is convenient and fast. Only to worried about diameter, not pusher. Cheap even for custom size.

[Landric]

E-mail them & propopse this. I contacted them about making a 4cav design like their 6cav. Fits under their 20# pot better & I think a bit faster casting 4cav than 6cav. They said no, but if enough people ask, maybe.
I don't like a lot of Lee stuff. There dies are ok, but I prefer Redding. Their 2cav molds are crap IMO, just so cheaply made & require quite a bit of care using to get good bullets & not damage the molds. The 6cavs are nice but as w/ all Lee stuff, quality control is spotty. They have several good bullet designs but then execute many poorly, like their SWC for most calibers. The 20# pot is a bargain for the hobby caster. I would NOT own a Lee reloading press, but it's would be better than not reloading.

I would agree, except for recent developments with Lee presses. The Classic Cast, the Classic Turret, and the Breech Lock Challenger are all excellent presses. I've got all three, but I'm hardly a Lee only guy, I started with a RCBS RCII (which I still use) and I also have a Dillon Square Deal B. I'm also looking to add a Dillon 550B whenever I can stop spending money on casting stuff and go back to spending money on loading stuff.

I've tried a number of other Lee presses, and I was not impressed with the earlier designs. The Pro 1000 was exceptionally bad, especially compared to the Square Deal B.

That said, IMO the Classic Cast is a better press than the Rockchucker, the only reason I still use my RC at all is that it was my first press and I'm attached to it. Sometimes its easier having two single stages on the bench. If I get that 550B it will be going in the spot currently occupied by the RC, not the Classic Cast. I don't have space on the bench for an additional press, and the RC just gets used the least since I got the Classic Cast.

The Classic Turret is solid, easy to use, easy to change cartridges, and well designed. At present I do the lions share of my handloading on the LCT as its the easiest to switch out and allows for somewhat increased production over the single stages.

The Breech Lock Challenger is a lighter duty press, but for handgun and small rifle cartridges it works quite well. Its also nice and light. I have mine attached to a 2x4 along with a couple of powder measures. Its my "inside press". When I want to load, and not hide from the family in my man cave, I pull it out and c-clamp it to the kitchen table.

No, Lee is not perfect, but they do offer some quality products.

[Recluse]

My top-two shooting boolits come from Lee moulds: .358 TL158SWC and the .452 200SWC with the bevel base.

The .312 185 is hard, if not impossible, to beat out of my Enfield, and when I size it down to .309, it is oh so sweet in the 30-06.

Lee presses? Classic Cast single stage is impossible to beat. There are some out there as good, but none better--and certainly none for even close to the value.

Classic Turret owners are almost a cult unto themselves and with good reason.

:coffee:

[ggeilman]

I have no where near the collection although I have only been reloading for about 3 years. I have a Lee Classic turret press with turrets and dies for 45 LC, 30-30 and 45-70 and all the toys that go with it. I have a Dillon that I use for most of my 45 LC, but still load one load and all my rifle on Lee.
I am now looking to get into black powder and casting so will probably pick up more Lee equipment.

[peter nap]

Being fairly new to casting (Not Reloading) I only have 8 lee dies. Sure, some needed tweeking, but they also only cost twenty bucks. They all cast well now. I have a bunch of dies,etc and have always been satisfied with them.

The big one is customer service. They are a little hard to get on the phone but when you do. An example:

I bought a new MEC press and it had a bent drop tube. Called MEC and they took two weeks to send it, charged me seventeen dollars for it and sent the wrong part. That's my LAST MEC.

I bought a LEE Turret press and I stripped the screw in the little plastic piece that holds the shaft. I called them and started to give my CC number. She said "No Charge".

I had it two days later. I'll buy more Lee stuff even if it needs some TLC.

[RoyRogers]

The Lee bore-rider design just plain WORKS. There's no state secret as to why that is--their noses actually RIDE the lands with a slight draggy fit across the land tops, about .3015"-.302" in the #312-185 as opposed to barely .300" on my #311291. The 8mm boolit's nose is about .3175"-.318", and it has a little friction when chambered--just scratched by the land tops. The boolit shoots much better than I can, owing to aging eyes and the G98/40's service barleycorns. Both boolits have drive bands as-cast with sufficient diameter to "clean up" when sized at .311"

Perhaps anecdotal but the attached 100 yd target is an affirmation of how the .312 185gr bore rider shoots. After years of shooting and reloading I just got around to playing with ‘real’ silver boolits. Wish I could say I cast these but I’ve not gotten that far just yet.

I’ve seen quality scoped bolt guns not shoot like this target proves can be had with iron sights and lead boolits. Got to the range with my new load just before dark and didn’t have time shoot more groups. Hope to go back tomorrow afternoon with alot more of this load.

Winchester 1964 model 94 in 30-30 with stock front sight, Williams FP rear, old challenged eyeballs, 185gr Lee round nosed sized to .311, 8.8gr Unique, CCI 200 – 1 1/8” center to center 6 shot group - 7 counting the 1st shot sighter at 5 o'clock on the target. Adjusted my hold after the sighter and got the last 6 into 1 1/8" off the bench with sun almost gone for the day.

[kelbro]

223AI dies produce brass with runout near.001.
FCD for 223.
Collet neck-sizer dies in several calibers.
Perfect Powder measure for stick powder.
44 TL 240 mold.
Several of their 309 molds.
Luber/sizer.
4-20 Pot.
Case trimmer kit. The shellholder is great for annealing!

[Freischütz]

I haven't used their moulds in years, but I like the collet dies for neck sizing. I also have a 7.65 Par die set that is properly dimensioned. My P.08 has no complaints.

[hammerhead357]

About 1983 or so I bought a Lee lead pot the doggone thing burned out the first time I used it. No I didn't contact their customer service center. If I had the pid controllers of today I would probably still be using it. But I replaced it with an RCBS promelt and have never used a Lee pot since. But I do use other Lee stuff like dies and powder measures and molds and boolit sizing dies.
I may buy another 20 lb. lead pot and use the pid controller on it for some things I cast but will still use my RCBS pots for most everything else. I have 5 of them but 4 are set up in a set of premelt-casting pot set up....Wes

[Willbird]

E-mail them & propopse this. I contacted them about making a 4cav design like their 6cav. Fits under their 20# pot better & I think a bit faster casting 4cav than 6cav. They said no, but if enough people ask, maybe.
I don't like a lot of Lee stuff. There dies are ok, but I prefer Redding. Their 2cav molds are crap IMO, just so cheaply made & require quite a bit of care using to get good bullets & not damage the molds. The 6cavs are nice but as w/ all Lee stuff, quality control is spotty. They have several good bullet designs but then execute many poorly, like their SWC for most calibers. The 20# pot is a bargain for the hobby caster. I would NOT own a Lee reloading press, but it's would be better than not reloading.

I did, I think Pat gets the emails, and he has the imagination of a pencil eraser ;-).

Bill

[exile]

I love Lee reloading stuff. Thanks for the information about Lee truncated cone bullet molds. I would like to try one in .45 ACP, but I have to come up with the cash for a pistol in that caliber first.

exile

[snaggdit]

Buy the mold. You will find the money for the gun way faster... I speak from experience. I started to cast 45s for 2 friends and within 2 months had my own...

[watkibe]

You said it perfectly Perfessor ! I've yakked my head off about Lee on this forum before, no need to repeat it. Look my posts up if you want to know my experiences with specific Lee products. I couldn't afford to shoot without Lee, who will sell me a mold with handles for less than Lyman will sell me handles alone. Used to be, you could call them up and ask Dick Lee himself if you had a question. He wasn't a great writer, I'll grant you that, but he was a heck of an engineer. Engineers are taught to never use a stronger material or more of a material than was needed. He paid attention the day they taught that, because he does it better than almost anybody, one of the reasons Lee products are such a bargain. He didn't design products for ammunition factories to use, he designed products for basement and garage reloaders like most of us, and most of it's perfect for the job.

[TDC]

You said it perfectly Perfessor !

+1 for both posts!!

I believe a lot of the frustration existing on this website regarding Lee products has much to do with group purchases and frequent long delays waiting for mould orders. The dislike and frustration with the company carries over to other products made by Lee.

People tend to become very annoyed with a company if they experience what they deem are unjustified delays in product delivery. Several of these Lee group purchase orders have taken over a year for delivery. The anger is compounded for Lee by their customer service people who promise to deliver on a delayed item, then fail to do so several times while providing lame excuses.

I believe Lee's reputation would be much improved if they would try harder to honor their commitments. I own many Lee products. I probably wouldn't be casting boolits or be a member of this board today if it wasn't for Lee. I really don't like to see such an innovative company maligned for something they could easily correct simply by providing more realistic delivery dates .... and honoring them.

Terry