End of an era!!!!!!!!!!

[3006guns]

Well, the modern political and "green" views have finally prevailed. I called my local tire shop to check on some wheel weights and was told they went to all steel. Yeah, they had a bucket or two of the lead but by contract it had to go to their battery supplier. I have one 5 gallon bucket left, so it looks like I have to start scrounging or (shudder) BUYING them outright someplace.

Oh, the pain........................:veryconfu

[lylejb]

the 2 tire shops i have in my town will sell....@$50 per 5gal bucket.....OUCH

[3006guns]

Fifty bucks??? Wow...I paid $35.00 once just because I was desperate...I just checked on Epay and there seems to be plenty available if you want to pay the price. I might just have to slip over the border to Oregon and see what turns up there. For a "base metal" these guys sure are proud of it.

[wallenba]

Will be watching with great interest for problems with the new WW's. Possibly dissimilar metal corrosion will be eating up those fancy alloy wheels, then steel weights are gonna go flyin'.

[mtgrs737]

All is not lost! Don't forget we have Rotmetals as a sponsor and you know how much we like our Group Buys!

Even buying virgin alloy it is still far cheaper to cast your own.

[dukenukum]

I have a local scrap yard that trades me lead for scrap metal so when I can get a load together I make the trade. scrap metal most often paid to take it away sometimes I even make a little cash.

[qajaq59]

Will be watching with great interest for problems with the new WW's. Possibly dissimilar metal corrosion will be eating up those fancy alloy wheels, then steel weights are gonna go flyin' Especially up north on all those nicely salted roads.

[cmkiefer]

Will be watching with great interest for problems with the new WW's. Possibly dissimilar metal corrosion will be eating up those fancy alloy wheels, then steel weights are gonna go flyin'.

No big difference there. The lead weights already have steel clips. This is the point of initial corrosion and leakage on the allow wheels here in the U.P. of Michigan where they are exposed to salt 6 months out of the year.

I think we are witnessing the end of the era of lead WW as originally mentioned. Get 'em while you can.

[JIMinPHX]

We also have a new sponsor at the bottom of the page.

http://leadandbrass.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=index

[Roper1952]

We also have a new sponsor at the bottom of the page.

http://leadandbrass.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=index

A quick check shows they are "sold out"....

[largom]

Lead is pretty cheap at the scrap yards right now. The last I bought paid 20 cents per lb. Add a little Lino and you can get close to wheel weight alloy with a higher % of tin.
Larry

[evan price]

I've found enough WW at shops lately. Found one shop that would sell, but he asked me what I was needing them for. My standard answer is "fishing weights" which was a good one here, the guy said "Great, as long as it's not for bullets, I hate guns." then he said he was getting fifty cents a pound for raw WW and had people driving an hour out of town to get them. I said thanky for your time and good luck with that.

[UweJ]

Check tire shops that do trucks or buses, they will most likely stick with lead WW.At least here in Europe they will because the cost of other metalls is to high.
Uwe

[BrianB]

I just called a scrap metal dealer in my area and they sell scrap lead, mostly wheel weights, for 75 cents per pound. I called another to see how much they would pay for scrap lead, they said 8 cents per pound. That 8 cents per pound is what your local tire shop gets for the wheel weights if they sell it to a recycling business. So, there you go, for whatever it's worth.

I have three vehicles, go through tires like groceries and buy them all from the same small-town tire shop. So for now, fortunately, wheel weights are still free.

[fredj338]

All is not lost! Don't forget we have Rotmetals as a sponsor and you know how much we like our Group Buys!

Even buying virgin alloy it is still far cheaper to cast your own.

Not really. If you figure a sim. WW alloy, @ 500# that is 1.79/#. That's about $52/1000 of 200gr/45. Yes that is cheaper than the $63/1000 delivered from TwoAlpha, but not enough to have me casting for economy sake. Roto is great for buying alloy, but @ much more than $1.50/#, I'm only casting specialty bullets like HP or styles/sizes I can't buy.
It's very location specific. In Kalif. it's very difficult to find cheap ww or scrap lead sources. I found one tire place that will sell them to me & like the rest in Kalif. is going non lead after Dec. 09.

[brad925]

Up here in the frozen north we don't have as many options for bullets. Other than remington and speer i have yet to find factory made cast boolits in .458. I can cast ww's but if i have to drive too far at $4 + a gal. the savings disappears pretty quick. I can buy new ww's and melt them and its still cheaper than factory. $32.00per 100 for remingtons and that much for 50 speers.

[Zbench]

Guys,

We are getting 1000# of #2 Alloy processed this week, and it will be available next week for sale. We will also be selling just ordinary lead ingot which is essentially 98% lead and 2% antimony for .90/pound. We figure we can ship 68# in a flat rate box. That comes to $75 all in including shipping. We will have a more accurate assay of what is actually in the ingot scrap so you know what to add to it.

This is not swapping and selling, and in fact there isn't any up on the site for sale, but there will be next week. We have quite a bit on hand, and look forward to meeting your needs for a long time. I'd like to hear your feedback, constructive or positive.

Pete

[docone31]

I went to paper patching for just this reason.
Roofing contractors, for some beer, will donate/collect all the roof boots I need. They have to pay extra to dispose of them anyway.
I can push a paper patched casting at jacketed speeds with better accuracy than jacketed.
I have a bunch I have to strip the shingles off today, then ingot up.
Yes, we can!

[jbc]

Pete - glad to hear you will be able to supply some lead to members here and I wish you the best of luck and thank you for the sponsorship of the site! one suggestion I have as to a product that might be popular is to have an alloy ready made for casting hollowpoints. There seems to be quite a rush of group buys now for the cramer style hollow points from Mihec and with the price of tin I would think that you would be able to get a better price finding a bulk source and mixing it with your pure lead but the antimony content would have to be quite low. It might just be me but I think a source of resonably affordabe low antimony high tin alloy that is perfectly consistentfrom batch to batch would be worth spending a little money on especiaal since the scrap lead sources around here seem to be drying up abit
-Joe

[Zbench]

Joe.

Thanks for the comment and suggestion? What do folks think is an ideal mix for hollow points? I imagine it's driven more by Brinell hardness than what's in it, but what would most think is ideal?

Pete

[Old Ironsights]

You could always help me get the hail out of Chicago and buy some of mine... ;)

[fredj338]

Joe.

Thanks for the comment and suggestion? What do folks think is an ideal mix for hollow points? I imagine it's driven more by Brinell hardness than what's in it, but what would most think is ideal?

Pete
I've been experimenting w/ several molds & I think 25-1 for vel. above 900fps-1200fps & down to 30-1 for vel. below 900fps works great.

[geargnasher]

Joe.

Thanks for the comment and suggestion? What do folks think is an ideal mix for hollow points? I imagine it's driven more by Brinell hardness than what's in it, but what would most think is ideal?

Pete

Pete,

I commented on this in a reply email I sent to you this evening regarding my previous inquiry into "range scrap", thought my 2 cents might be helpful to others if I posted here as well.

In particular, I wanted to lay in a supply of range scrap because I shoot steel with .45 Colt and lots of Hollow point .45 ACP, and alloy choice isn't driven by hardness alone, it's mainly composition. I air cool, mostly, so whatever the BHN is when I achieve the correct malleability and toughness I could care less. An alloy that tests at 12 bhn might be mostly antimony and arsenic and explode into brittle fragments when hitting silhouettes and not cast worth a darn, or the same BHN can be achieved with just binary lead/tin and you can mash it into foil-thin sheets with a hammer and will fill out a Loverin Cruise Missile at 650 degrees.

What I look for in a general-use alloy is something like 2-3% antimony, 1.5-2% tin, mebbe a pinch of arsenic (only if I'm heat-treating, mainly rifle), and if it has a little copper or babbit trace alloys (under 2% total) I don't really care. The remainder, obviously, being lead! :wink:

Most range scrap I've gotten has been about right due to about a 50/50 mix of soft, almost pure, cores and commercial Hardcast. The occasional small percentage of Homecast that ever gets in public range scrap is only that much better, because most folks who roll their own use a good alloy anyway and is kind of a "neutral" in the mix.

I've used mostly WW + about 4% 50/50 solder for years because of availability and you just about can't beat it unless you're needing a specialty alloy or are shooting lots of steel and/or hollow-points and don't want that much antimony. Seems that antimony content has increased (or maybe it's arsenic, I don't know for sure) and WW have become increasingly brittle. If I use them now (and they're getting scarce here) I usually add about 40-50% scrap sewer-pipe seals to increase the malleability and that makes my hollow-points happy, but that gets expensive.

Anyway, If I'm going to have to buy my casting alloy, I'm getting to where I prefer typical range stuff to any of the commercial alloys available even if I have to add tin, because it has just about he right amount of antimony for the price.

Gear

[XWrench3]

first of all, BITE YOUR TOUNGE! i just got into boolit casting, i do not want it to be over before it has begun! second, even if everybody switches to steel wheel weights, it will take years for all the old ones to disapear. so most of us will not run out for a while. also, this sounds like a good "scare tactic" to drive the price of wheel weights out of proportion. shame on you.

[qajaq59]

I went to the range yesterday and fired a 100 .308s, which comes to about 2.5 pounds. Then I picked up 5 pounds of lead from the back stop for the pistol range.
Now if I could just keep that up I'd be all set. :bigsmyl2:

[BrianB]

first of all, BITE YOUR TOUNGE! i just got into boolit casting, i do not want it to be over before it has begun! second, even if everybody switches to steel wheel weights, it will take years for all the old ones to disapear. so most of us will not run out for a while. also, this sounds like a good "scare tactic" to drive the price of wheel weights out of proportion. shame on you.

I think you're right. There is no shortage and won't be for a while, even if lead wheel weight production stops. Currently, there doesn't seem to be an issue in my area. My dad called me last night and said he got over 100 pounds for me for free from the repair shop he has used for years. If people start hoarding like they have done with primers, etc., we'll see prices go up and a shortage...just like what we currently see with primers and powder.

[fredj338]

first of all, BITE YOUR TOUNGE! i just got into boolit casting, i do not want it to be over before it has begun! second, even if everybody switches to steel wheel weights, it will take years for all the old ones to disapear. so most of us will not run out for a while. also, this sounds like a good "scare tactic" to drive the price of wheel weights out of proportion. shame on you.

I wouldn't count on year. The major tire shop I have been getting mine from puts them up in 3gal bucckets, about 110#. The first of the year, the buckets were mostly lead wts, some znce, some steel. The last bucket I got in June was almost 25% non lead wts. The tire stores have been mnadated to switch by the end of Dec. here. That means they have already stopped ordering lead based ww in June. The supply out here is already dwindling. I would expect to find little to none this time next year. It is very location specific though.

[Zbench]

Guys...I think the evidence is anecdotal based on the comments here, but thinking about a similar situation with primers, is is really unreasonable?

I mean manufacturers are still making primers and the demand still has them out of stock. Think of the reverse, the demand remains steady and the supply is gone. Is it reasonable to think that WW will always be around forever if no one is using them and deman remains constant or goes up? I have to believe that big places have always sold to folks who refine lead.

The picture is not rosy in my opinion.

Pete

[qajaq59]

We may someday run out of WWs, but lead isn't going anywhere. However, you can look for the do-gooders to try and outlaw it for bullets as they did for shot guns loads.

[D.A.C.]

Buddy and I bought 1200lbs of wheels/weights/lead melted into 1lb ingots from an old widow lady the other day.

[PatMarlin]

Buddy and I bought 1200lbs of wheels/weights/lead melted into 1lb ingots from an old widow lady the other day.

See- there yya go ..!

[jbc]

Joe.

Thanks for the comment and suggestion? What do folks think is an ideal mix for hollow points? I imagine it's driven more by Brinell hardness than what's in it, but what would most think is ideal?

Pete

As others have said 16-1 to 25-1 lead to tin is a good mix but the biggest thing is not to have too much antimony because of the brittleness it causes. Here is one good article talking about the subject and there are many more on this site to steer you in the right direction.
http://www.lasc.us/FryxellExpansionOfCastHP.htm

[fredj338]

Just to add to this. I went by my tire guy yesterday & he had two more 3gal buckets, about 105# each. He won't let me pay for them, which I am greatful, but I am working him for a buy on all his remaining lead ww stock when the ban goes into affect.
I have already seen the affect though. When I was getting buckets in feb, 85%+ was useable lead wts. Theses last two buckets are down to 75% or so useable. A lot more zinc & steel. The owner stopped buying lead based wts. in June in prep for the ban. I imagine other have too. Again, get what you can & stack it deep!

[firescout]

Something to consider here in Calif: the shops will start installing NEW non-lead WWs on Jan 1, but they will still be removing old lead WWs for months to come.

So the tire shops will still have a significant amount of scrap lead WWs well into next year.