45 ACP Leading (Pictures)

[panzerr]

Hello. I'm looking for some input on the amount of leading I'm getting on my current 45 ACP load.

The data:

200 Grain Round Nose Billy Bullet (Moly-Koted lead)
4.9 grains Red Dot
Winchester Primers

The results:

Here are pictures, as best as I could take, of the barrel after only 94 rounds through my Wilson Combat Professional Model. Am I leading too much? Should I switch to a different powder or am I GTG?


http://sixty-six.org/x_drive/lead3.jpg

http://sixty-six.org/x_drive/lead2.jpg

This is the majority of the lead from the barrel. It excludes the lead between the rifling.

http://sixty-six.org/x_drive/lead1.jpg

[HeavyMetal]

The load is all right I think the issue is the moly coating.

Have you tried other cast boolits or is this a first time thing?

I think this is to much lead for under 100 rounds!

[Dale53]

It looks like you ARE experiencing leading. I am unfamiliar with Billy Bullets and my personal experience with moly coating was not a positive one.

I have several 1911 .45 ACP's plus a couple of 625's (a 4" 625-8 JM Special and a 5" Model 1989 625-6). I have shot well over a 100,000 bullets through my .45's and tens of thousands of magnum pistol bullets without leading of any kind. However, I cast my own bullets. Until the last couple of years I used the NRA formula 50/50 bullet lube. A couple of years ago I went to Lars White Label Carnauba Red bullet lube as it has a higher melting point for extremely hot weather (I sometimes leave my cartridges in a car trunk where it can get VERY hot).

Casting my own bullets allow me to totally control bullet size, alloy, and lube for best results.

Many hard cast commercial bullets are prone to leading (they are either too hard, the lube is less than satisfactory, or the bullets are two small in diameter - any of which can cause leading).

I suggest that you carefully clean your barrel of all lead, then try another brand of bullets.

I am currently using WW's + 2% tin for my .45 Alloy with the bullets sized at .452".

If you lived close to me we could get to the bottom of this leading problem quickly (I live in SW Ohio).

Good luck!

Dale53

[shooting on a shoestring]

Panzerr,

Welcome aboard. This is a great place to ask such questions. Great pictures. That helps alot. Yep I'm with HeavyMetal, that's too much. If that was after several hundred, perhaps it would be liveable, I personally wouldn't put up with that in any of my revolvers. I think its time you investigate and do some measuring. Slug your barrel and find out your groove diameter and make sure your boolit diameter is a thousandth of an inch, or perhaps two over groove diameter. Then you will want to start playing with your alloy (of course you're going to cast your own sooner or later, might as well start now).

I don't shoot a .45acp, but I've never heard of any that were problems to get to shoot lead without leading. Its considered to be a very cast friendly caliber, and a great caliber in other respects as well.

[Heavy lead]

Don't like moly coating. Moly in lube maybe ok, but not dry moly. Also make sure you get all the copper out of that barrel to before shooting cast. I only shoot cast out of my 1911's anymore, mostly the Lyman 452460 with just the first (bottom) lube groove filled with Lars (White Label) BAC which is 50/50 Carnauba Red and 50/50 alox/beeswax sized .452.
If you have a bunch of those boolits to use up, you might consider tumble lubing them in alox, or I would actually try Johnson's Paste Wax (JPW), I'm not usually a huge fan of tumble lubing, but I've had good results with JPW in the 45acp.

[S.R.Custom]

Hello. I'm looking for some input on the amount of leading I'm getting on my current 45 ACP load.

The data:

200 Grain Round Nose Billy Bullet (Moly-Koted lead)...

Your experience pretty much duplicates most people's with respect to the use of commercial cast bullets, moly coated or otherwise...



...If you have a bunch of those boolits to use up, you might consider tumble lubing them in alox...

...and that's what most people end up doing to cope with the problem. Right before they buy into their first boolit mould, that is. :)

[canyon-ghost]

Wow, you're shooting a Wilson Combat, you are tough. My 9mm is giving me some problems. I think undersize, hard lead bullets are much to blame. Even though I pour mine, I'm still learning about pistol loads. Fast powders being a must have, hard lead shoved against the rifling too fast does come apart evidently. They are correct about being .002" oversize to shoot cast. [smilie=1:

[panzerr]

Thanks for all the input. I had done some searching around the forum and read about commercial bullets being a bit on the hard side, but I was hoping the problem was my powder giving me too slow a burn.

I'll have to try lubing the next batch of billy bullets and see how that goes (I've got 5,000 billy bullets left).


I have shot well over a 100,000 bullets through my .45's and tens of thousands of magnum pistol bullets without leading of any kind.

It sounds like you've got it down to a science!

I've only been reloading for two years and am just now starting to think about casting my own bullets. It sounds like it is the thing to do. I will be on the prowl around the forum.

[waksupi]

Just so you know, (And you DO want to know), Goop hand cleaner will remove moly from your bore, once you are done with the stuff. I imagine you will only need to remove it once.

Welcome aboard.

[9.3X62AL]

Welcome to the addiction, Panzerr. The 45 ACP is a pretty lead-friendly caliber, so the leading you showed for the round count indicated is a little over the acceptable range.

One miscue that can lead to leading is to crank down on the taper crimp die when seating bullets--the boolits can be swaged down, either by seating while crimping is under way or via the crimp compression itself.

Another is the fault of diemakers, a too-small expander spud for lead bullets. E.g., my RCBS die set came with a spud that mics @ .447". Great for jacketed bullets, but that can swage down a lead boolit. I use a .449" spud from a 45 Colt die set, and .450" would be better for .452" boolits.

[Dale53]

Panzerr;
Al brings up a good point. I taper crimp my loaded rounds until the mouth of the case is .470" in diameter. I use military or brand name cases, Winchester, Federal, and Starline - except for Remington cases (they have proved too thin, in the past, and that can lead to deep seating of the bullets as they strike the feed ramp).

FWIW
Dale53

[JustSomeGuy]

I've fired literally tens of thousands of wheel weight cast bullets from .45 autos and never had ANY leading problems like you have encountered. I think Al and Dale both have good suggestions, but make sure you are just kissing the mouth of the case with that crimp die so as to return the mouth of the case to factory spec and not really squeeze the bullet with it. All the crimp die should be doing is taking the bell out of the case mouth so it will headspace correctly. Bullet retention is supposed to be done by the "neck tension" which is a function of the case sizing die mostly, and not really the crimp die.

As to the lube, I never used any moly coated bullets, so I will demur to anyone who has more experience with those.

And powder wise, I have nothing against RedDot, but most of my .45's were pushed along with Unique or Bullseye, though there are other very interesting powders to use these days as well. Still... many a .45 target was center punched with both Unique and Bullseye for a lot of years and they still work.

[shotman]

As was said See what the boolit mics. I bet you will see that they are near .451. That is too small

[Dale53]

justsomeguy;
I would like to respectfully disagree with you about crimping .45 Auto cases. Along with proper case expanding (there must be a degree of good bullet pull) a good taper crimp die needs to crimp the bullet about half the thickness of the case wall. I set my taper crimp to close the mouth of the case (the very edge) to .470". This is CRITICAL to prevent deep seating of the bullet when the bullet strikes the feed ramp. In the relatively small capacity of the .45 ACP case, it can be dangerous to deep seat a bullet as it raises pressures exponentially. This, of course, is more apt to happen when using full loads but can also happen with target loads.

You can also crimp too much and damage your carefully cast bullet reducing it's accuracy.

I have been headspacing on the bullet for many years. Remove the barrel from the pistol (I am speaking of the 1911 platform, here) and seat the bullet until dropping the loaded round into the chamber with the barrel held vertical, the base of the case is even with the hood. This is the standard when loading cast bullets. This will give you the most consistent ignition which helps maintain accuracy and promotes good feeding.

Jacketed bullets will require slightly more clearance as they are unforgiving regarding seating depth.

This method of loading will give you the best available out of your match gun whether it is set up for hard ball equivalent or using light target loads.

It will perfectly match YOUR chamber and bullet throat.

FWIW
Dale53

[mike in co]

what is your oal with this 200 gr boolit ?


thanks

mike

[tall grass]

And remember, get ALL the copper fouling out. Been my experience anyway.

Jim

[sargenv]

Billy Bullets usually don't have any issues with the competitors I talk with. The one thing that is important in any moly coated lead bullet (billy, Master caster, Precision, Bear creek) is that you need to have enough case flare so that you do not scrape the moly coating off of the bullet when seating. If you try to not flare the case as much or treat them the same as jacketed, this is where you will run into trouble. I've fired thousands of bear creek moly coated lead bullets through my 610 without a cleaning and never experienced one iota of leading. Even when pushing said 140's to 1350 fps with a good charge of Power pistol behind them. Any time there was someone who had leading, the question was always raised about case mouth flare, and in just about every case, they did not flare them enough and were scraping the moly off. Moly coated lead bullets are kind of a different animal than the moly coated jacketed bullets we saw a couple of years ago that have basically fallen by the wayside. I was always able to shoot a few Jacketed bullets and then switch off to Moly with no issues about leading, accuracy, or other things that would be more evident with rifles. Until I started casting I used Bear crek Moly coated lead in all of my firearms (Sig 229, Para P16-40, S&W 686, 627, and 610's) all without any leading issues so long as there was enough of a case flare.

I've never had any issues in the crimping dept for moly coated bullets.. I have found that if you do not crimp down on them a little bit they will jump the crimp and get longer.. It was more pronounced under heavy recoil of the 140's at 1350, but I also found it to happen on 180's @ 975 fps. Not so much on 140's @ 1000 fps.

Over the years I have likely fired about 50,000 Moly coated lead bullets (mostly bear creek) and in some cases went 2000-2500 rounds between cleaning.. (about 1.5-2 months worth of practice and matches). I still have some stock of them but have now pretty much switched to my own. I also do not have any issue switching between my JPW lubed boolits and the Moly coated Bear creeks I still have a stock of.

[panzerr]

Overall length is 1.22 inches

Here is a picture of my crimping:

http://sixty-six.org/x_drive/boolit_crimp.jpg

[sargenv]

That crimp looks fine... do you have a picture of the flare with the bullet seated before it is crimped? I found that it was better to seat the bullet first and then crimp it in a different operation (like on the Dillon 550 or 650.. If you did it all at once sometimes that also causes an issue.

[panzerr]

Any time there was someone who had leading, the question was always raised about case mouth flare, and in just about every case, they did not flare them enough and were scraping the moly off.

I am belling it enough so the round sits in the case nicely before seating. I'll have to pull a few rounds and get pictures of the bullets to see if I'm scraping off the moly-kote.

[panzerr]

That crimp looks fine... do you have a picture of the flare with the bullet seated before it is crimped? I found that it was better to seat the bullet first and then crimp it in a different operation (like on the Dillon 550 or 650.. If you did it all at once sometimes that also causes an issue.

I, or we rather, are using a Dillon 650, which is set up at my reloading buddy's house. I'll get over there to get some pictures of the bell in case there are other people here that are having the same trouble.

[sargenv]

If you have a kinetic bullet puller, I'd pull a couple just to make sure the moly is still intact. I have apicture of a pulled 170 located in the thread http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=44640. Post #21 in that thread shows the bullet and it's intact moly coat. That one was made by Bear creek.

[panzerr]

Here are a few bullets I pulled:

http://sixty-six.org/x_drive/boolit_1.jpg

The bell on my cases:

http://sixty-six.org/x_drive/boolit_2.jpg

The size of my boolit at the top of the brass where it is crimped

http://sixty-six.org/x_drive/boolit_3.jpg

http://sixty-six.org/x_drive/boolit_4.jpg

[Dale53]

panzerr;
One thing I neglected to discuss. Your powder of choice is Red Dot. There is not a thing wrong with Red Dot in the .45 ACP. Just consider it a fraternal twin to Bullseye. It has many of the same characteristics (fast burning and relatively small bulk) and it works WELL in the .45 ACP. I have run quite a lot of that through my various .45 handguns.

In short, your powder choice is NOT your problem. I would lay money on it that it's your bullets...

Dale53

[HeavyMetal]

Photo of boolits in post 23 show way to much crimp!

That would be boolits 1,2,4,5 reading left to right. The center boolit number 3 is perfect and I don't belive it was seated in a case from the look of it.

Will suggest two things first "mic" the expander plug, I think it's to small in diameter and allowing the case to size your boolits when seated, figure you may find it measures about .449 to .450 needs to be .451 if your seating .452 boolits. Then just enough crimp to straighten out the flare in the case mouth.

By the way case flare is good don't change it!

Second use the "Lip" area at the end of the caliper jaws to do your fine measuring! They way you hsve it in the pic is fine for a "course" measurement of case or boolit diameter, but in this case you want to measure the last .063 of the case right at the mouth.

Bottom line if you can see where you taper crimp, and I can see that in the pic, than you have way to much crimp!

[Rico1950]

Bullets also look to be bevel based. Try some flat based bullets if you can, everything else being the same.

[Echo]

Bullets also look to be bevel based. Try some flat based bullets if you can, everything else being the same.

He has 5,000 of the things to shoot up before he goes to another style...

It's my understanding that Billy Bullets uses a moly filled epoxy to coat his boolits. At one gun show he showed me a boolit he had hit with a torch - the alloy melted out, but not the epoxy (or whatever) that ended up looking like a badly slumped jacket. I have shot some, and I believe my results are the same as most folks re commercial cast boolits.

[use enough gun]

I had terrible leadig and accuracy problems with my BFR in 45/70 until I got the right size bullet mold. I was shooting .457-.458 dia. cast bullets and would have 2 out of 5 shots keyhole at 50ft. It would smear the bore to the muzzle in 5-10 rounds. Got a Ranchdog mold .460dia. and made my own alox lube. Problem solved, also accuracy is outstanding now. Dave

[panzerr]

Could a barrel that is not quite broken in cause significant leading?

[Char-Gar]

As a 50 plus year shooter of cast bullets in the 1911 autopistol in 45 ACP, I have the following observations on your situation.

1. I have never found a commercial cast bullet that would hold a candle to my home cast in terms of accuracy and shooting clean without leading. Often the bevel base is the problem others times the lube and so on and so on. I have tried a score of different makers and have never been happy with their products.

2. My one experience with moly coated bullets mirrors your..awful crap!

3. If you don't want to get into bullet casting, at least buy your bullets "raw" from the makers. These are unsized and unlubed. Use a plain base design and buy a lube sizer. Good a good quality lube and you will be a much happier man. YOu will also save a little money, once the cost of the machine has been delt with.

4. Please feel free to disregard my advise... most do!

[HeavyMetal]

No such thing as "breaking in" a barrel!

However I will tell you that many will disagree with me on that.

[targetshootr]

I'm not familair with moly coating but from the pics it looks like it replaces standard lube? or did you remove the lube from the groove?

[Blammer]

yep in pic #23 the pulled bullets show WAY to much crimp. You say you are using a dillon right?

Here is my experienc with Dillon dies and will relate in a minute.

I have a 41 mag set of dillon dies, when I go to seat the boolit it sizes the boolit in the seating die!

I used a .413 dia boolit and after I seated it an then pulled the boolit it was 'sized' to .411.

I suspect that you may want to look at your seating die as a culprit for "sizing" the boolits while in the case.

Dillon's are great for jacketed bullets, not so good for lead boolits where the diameter may need to be "fatter".

If anyone has a different brand seater to try in the place of the Dillon Seater, that may take care of the problem.

I also noted as HeavyMetal did, that the pulled boolits show signs of "sizing" or too much crimping!

[wiljen]

take the 5 bullets in the first pic in post 23 - measure the base of them. I'd be willing to bet the only one that has the same diameter as a bullet that has not been seated is # 3.

All the others show a distinct step in the front driving band and the diameter below that step is less than above it. This would mean the only portion of the bullet that made solid contact was the lead edge of the front driving band. This is a case of too much taper crimp so you have effectively reduced the shank to a size that is allowing gas blow by and thus contributing to your leading. If you take the picture with the micrometer and do a little math you'll see this quite readily.


The typical .45 acp case mouth measures .473 so .473 -.452 = .021 (case wall thickness)

working backward .471 - .021 = .450 (bullet diameter)

Either your case walls are thinner than standard, or you are sizing your bullet down while seating it.

[Boomer Mikey]

1. What is the groove diameter of your barrel?
2. Is the barrel throated and is there a lead into the rifling?
3. What is the diameter of the pulled bullets?
4. How hard is the bullet alloy?

I use 5 grains of Red Dot in all 5 of my 45's with moly coated Bear Creek Bullets which are BHN 8-10 with no leading.

If your barrel has a groove diameter of 0.451" or less, and the throat is OK, and your pulled bullets measure 0.451" or more, and the bullets are BHN 12 or less try lubing the bullets and see if they lead the bore. Molly is no substitute for bullet lube. Bear Creek Bullets are molly coated and coated with a dry wax lube. It may be possible that your lot of bullets didn't get lubed or they may be too hard to obturate or there is something in the barrel stripping the coating (rough bore finish/no throat).

I would also pull the barrel and drive one of the bullets through the barrel to see what happens to the coating and to see if it fits the bore well. Do this with a new bullet and one of your pulled bullets with your heavy crimp. You should be able to "feel" a uniform resistance while pushing the bullet from the breech to the muzzle. It's also possible that the barrel has a reverse choke or taper... looser at the muzzle that at the chamber due to a constriction at the chamber end.

wiljen is on the same page... your factory crimp die may be sizing your cases so much that the bullet diameter is sized smaller than bore diameter. Try using just enough crimp to tuck only the inside edge of the case into the bullet... just enough to prevent the bullet from being pushed deeper into the case.

Boomer

[Legion489]

While not a master caster/shooter like most here, my experience is that I was getting more leading then I wanted with several commercial cast bullets and lubed them with Lee Liquid Alox. This helped to an amazing degree. Some people don't like LLA, but I have had good luck with it as far as cutting down leading. I don't know what Lee Liquid Alox would do with a "bare" bullet lubed with it, but lubing over the lube on the bullet has worked for me. You might also try loading a jacketed bullet at the bottom of the mag, so every seven-eight round is a jacketed bullet to help keep leading down.

Hope this helps.

[panzerr]

While not a master caster/shooter like most here, my experience is that I was getting more leading then I wanted with several commercial cast bullets and lubed them with Lee Liquid Alox. This helped to an amazing degree. Some people don't like LLA, but I have had good luck with it as far as cutting down leading. I don't know what Lee Liquid Alox would do with a "bare" bullet lubed with it, but lubing over the lube on the bullet has worked for me. You might also try loading a jacketed bullet at the bottom of the mag, so every seven-eight round is a jacketed bullet to help keep leading down.

Hope this helps.

I'm considering lubing with alox as you and a few others suggested, but from what I understand mixing jacketed and lead bullets leads to more leading because lead adheres to the copper residue left in the barrel.

[HeavyMetal]

If you feed your pistol a steady diet of Jacketed bullets and then switch to lead, without cleaning, yes you can "agravate" the leading problem.

Shooting a clean barrel with lead and firing the occasional jacketed bullet is not nearly as bad.

This is an old trick that really isn't needed if the alloy, lube and boolit diameter of your cast lead boolits are all correct and working as a "team".

Panzerr you can use LLA to aid your moly coated boolits in preventing leading but if you don't change your loading tecnique, figure out what is causing the boolit deformation, your leading problem is not going to go away.

[462]

I experienced a seating die that was down-sizing the boolit. I enlarged the die and the leading stopped. That die is now boolit specific.

[sargenv]

I concur with the overcrimping in that set of 5. #3 looked good. It's strange that you are experiencing leading, but I would vote with the other gent that it might be too much crimp. Also you may want to slug your barrel and see if you may need a larger size bullet to full obturate it into the rifling. Even with 5k bullets, likely you could sell them to someone and get the ones you need or you may even want to contact the people at Billy bullets and tell them the trouble you've been having. A lot of people use them with good results, so it could be a bad batch that they know about and may make up to you. The worst thing they can say is "nope, no problem on our end".

[panzerr]

Well, I tried the Lee Liquid Alox. All it did was foul up my pistols and make reloading a bit dirtier. It had no noticeable effect on leading. I won't be using that again.

I've settled with the fact that I will have to deal with leading for now.

[sheepdog]

Leading is 9/10ths bullet to bore fitting (ie sizing). Think thats where you need to start.

[Frank]

Get a bore and groove measurement for that model. Maybe someone already knows. What type and weight of bullet gives best accuracy? Then buy a box of those bullets, and/or get a mold of that type that has the same size, or .001" over your groove diameter. You can also just shoot a slug without powder aim at the dirt, then tap it out and measure. Maybe you can use your Billy slug for that.

[frank_1947]

shooting lead and leading is something that is different solution for everyone and sometime some or common , it can be powder for some lead mix it can be speed to slow to fast, finding the right combination can be a problem if you dont cast, I have never seen a hard cast bullet cause a problem since some leading is caused by the back of bullet melting more or less fro to much powder to hot in general speed etc . I have casted my own 45s and use my own mix of lube with WST powder that I use on all cast 9mm 40sw and 45 I have never used red dot and I never heard of a Billy bullet but the easiest way to try to find prblem is start with the powder load if it is hot slow it down 5% at a time if slow speed it up a little at a time, I had the same problem years ago with my 40SW that was when a friend told me try WST never had that problem again and mine looked same as yours I was useing a lee 6 cav 155gr mould I couldnt believe that that could happen so simple I had been talking to lee about my problem for a wk or so , called hime back told him about powder change and the result, he said you just found the right combination your lucky to have found it so fast I based my alloy on lyman #2
so you need to find what works if you had not bought so many od them bullets you would have more options trying others if you can spend the money try others here i one my friends shoot in there 45s http://www.snscasting.com/

[MtGun44]

I would suggest adding a real lube to the groove and making sure the boolit is at least
.001" larger than the groove diam bare minimum. The taper crimp looks fine to me.

Bill

[44man]

shooting lead and leading is something that is different solution for everyone and sometime some or common , it can be powder for some lead mix it can be speed to slow to fast, finding the right combination can be a problem if you dont cast, I have never seen a hard cast bullet cause a problem since some leading is caused by the back of bullet melting more or less fro to much powder to hot in general speed etc . I have casted my own 45s and use my own mix of lube with WST powder that I use on all cast 9mm 40sw and 45 I have never used red dot and I never heard of a Billy bullet but the easiest way to try to find prblem is start with the powder load if it is hot slow it down 5% at a time if slow speed it up a little at a time, I had the same problem years ago with my 40SW that was when a friend told me try WST never had that problem again and mine looked same as yours I was useing a lee 6 cav 155gr mould I couldnt believe that that could happen so simple I had been talking to lee about my problem for a wk or so , called hime back told him about powder change and the result, he said you just found the right combination your lucky to have found it so fast I based my alloy on lyman #2
so you need to find what works if you had not bought so many od them bullets you would have more options trying others if you can spend the money try others here i one my friends shoot in there 45s http://www.snscasting.com/
Boolit bases do not melt!

[JMax]

I agree with sargnev as I shoot Bear Creek and do not clean between matches w/no leading including my Glock 17 and 22 (Mein Gott you cannot shoot lead in Glocks) The key is case belling and proper crimp. I also find the Bear Creeks are a bit softer than Billy Bullets and I believe the base unerates better providing a better seal. Also powder choice is key with all cast bullets. Currently I shoot 30k+ Bear Creeks a year and have not had to clean the barrels of my 627 revolvers since the Steel Challenge and IRC of this year. I also shoot the bullets in my 45ACP 1911 and 625 plus 44's in my M21 and 29.

[HangFireW8]

I've settled with the fact that I will have to deal with leading for now.

Don't give up!

First of all, find out what you're dealing with. Have you tried slugging your barrel with a lead boolit? Do you have access to a micrometer or 1/1000" dial caliper?

-HF

[Bass Ackward]

Man, you have quite a bit of information to digest. But .... not enough.

Lyman has the accuracy load for a 200 grainer at 3.5 grains of BE. I used to use 3.3.

Try slowing down and see what happens. But you are going to have to get ALL of that leading out first or it will keep happening no mater what you do.

[Throwback]

I agree with the consensus view that moly is bad.

No one has mentioned bevel base. Are these bullets bevel based? .45 ACP bullets that are bevel based will often lead regardless of most lube choices. This will be even worse with higher velocities or if the bullet is undersized. Your leading basically matches my experience with bevel based bullets I have tried before I started casting.

All of my loading for the .45s currently consists of flat based bullets sized .452 cast of alloy approximating #2. Most of my loads run about 800 fps which is all I need. I run a little faster in the .45 Colt.

I will say that I have been able to get acceptable performance with 200 grain BB LSWC and 230 grain BBLRN bullets with a decent lube and keeping velocities low at 800 fps or lower but there is always some leading.

[Legion489]

OK, everyone covered slugging the bore and using slightly larger bullets.

Now try softer bullets. Yes, really.

And no moly. No idea if moly helps or hurts leading, but you need to get it ALL out (a giant pain!) and start clean.

Did I miss if this load does this in all barrels or just this one?

Interesting you had problems with Lee Liq. Alox. I never had a problem with it and that would be the first time I was lucky with anything Lee. Put bullets in plastic baggie, pour in tiny amount of LLA, rub around, dump on wax paper and let dry over night. Try putting "real" lub in grooves. If that helps but doesn't solve problem try putting LLA over it and see what happens.

My favorite load is 5.5 gr Win 231 with 200 LSWC.

If all of the above (everyone's ideas) doesn't work, you might need to use plated bullets or get a new barrel.

[pmer]

Try the OAL test... Take out the barrel and drop a loaded round in the chamber. If the rim sticks out past the hood you're pushing the shoulder of the boolit too far into the rifling/throat area when the action locks up. It's like shearing off a piece of lead and leaving it in the throat area.

[Motor]

I use Lee A-Lox in at least 10 different calibers from .30 cal rifle up to .500 S&W pistol and will continue to do so until at least I run out then I'll probably switch to one of the sponsored tumble lubes on here.

I'm a machinist with 28 years experience and have a tool and die making degree. YES there is an amount of break in for new barrels. If a barrel is hand lapped of course it's very minimal.

I have personally experienced leading due to too light loads with too hard boolits.

I agree the OP's crimp looked excessive. I would only crimp enough to remove the mouth flair. No more.

Most cast loads produce some leading. If the leading does not accumulate and accuracy stays consistent (consistently good that is) then it's not a problem.

Motor

[Char-Gar]

I tried some moly coated bullets ten or twelve years ago and will never do that again.

Moral to this story: Never buy 5,000 of anything until you know you really want 5,000 of them.

[dubber123]

You fellows realize this is a 5 year old thread? :)

[9.3X62AL]

Yes--and if I had 5,000 of these intractable undersized SOB's, they would have been MELTED 5 years ago, too. Dunno what effect the "moly" would have on the alloy composition, but I can't help thinking that the metal would run better properly sized and lubed. Failing that, running all of those bullets into a .452 size die in a 4500 or LAM II and filling that groove with 50/50 wouldn't do any harm, and might improve things.

[FergusonTO35]

If I was the OP the first thing I would do is back off the charge or try a slower powder. Red Dot is awfully fast for that application with boolits of unknown quality, and factory applied surface lubes are often marginal to begin with. Case in point: Speer Idaho Territory boolits. These soft swaged boolits have a very thin shellac like coating and are intended for light cowboy action type loads. I used to shoot alot of them before I started casting because they were cheap at my local shop. I thought that getting curly Q's of lead when you cleaned was just part of the game. Then the shop started carrying cast boolits with real lube and I discovered the joys of no leading and easy cleanup.

[DrCaveman]

Panzerr hasnt posted for two years on the forum, not likely he is reading these new posts.

Anyone new with some 45 acp leading problems, post up some pics and people will help

Otherwise this thread is dead.

My 2cents: cast your own at 453", size down appropriately for your barrel, taper crimp to 470", dont worry about hardness or charge (as long as it is generally a book load) and enjoy excellent 25 yd groups, far better than 9mm or 38 spl will deliver. With my guns, and me shooting them.

[GhostHawk]

Agree with Caveman, my SA 1911 will out shoot every other handgun in the house. And thanks to Ben's Liquid Lube it does it without leading or problems of any kind. Only thing I've found is that if I sent the boolit a touch deeper I have fewer failures to load, or rounds that hang up short of battery.

[Shooter6br]

Moly prevented (REDUCED) barrel wear in my 6BR and 6PPC. Not good for lead bullets