measuring black

[chevyiron420]

hi guy's, as you can guess i dont use black powder much but i have a question. take a 45\70 for instance. if i wanted 70 grains, how can i measure it? i was told i cant weigh it like smokless cause it goes by volume instead of weight. is this bogus? i am thinking of trying a black powder load in my roller, with my 405 grain flar base but i dont want to reinvent the wheel to do it.:lovebooli

[Doc Highwall]

You weigh it the same as smokless.

[Maven]

What Doc Highwall said. Also, if you have an adjustable powder measure for a BP muzzle loader, pour the 70gr. [weighed] charge into it, tap it several times and then use the graduated "bar" to bring the powder up to and level with the measure's mouth. Repeat this several times so that you have an accurate adjustment. Btw, you can fill the powder measure via an empty .45-70 cartridge, Lee dipper, etc. Moreover, you'll need to compress the 70gr. charge a bit so that it will fit in a modern .45-70 case, especially if you want to keep the OAL at 2.55". Hope this helps!

[bob208]

frist i use the adj. powder measure they are close enough to the weight. when you put the powder in pour it through a 24" drop tube that settles it in the case this gets you the same powder hight every time. next put in a hard card wad i cut mine from the backs of note pads. then a grease cookie which if felt soked with a black powder lube then your bullet. you should seat or compress it about 1/16 " if you just dump it in and compress it it will not shoot worth a damn and the barrel will cake up bad.

a black powder cartage barrel cakes up from the muzzle back so you keep adding lube till it stops. i use spg lube for mine the lubes for smokless powder will not work with black.

the carbine load was 55 gr. with a 405 bullet the space was taken up with hard wads and grease cookies. they shoot well in most rifles and will take deer and hogs with no problems.

the rifle used 70 gr. with a 500 gr. bullet they kick hard shoot far and take anything that walks around here.

i use 1f it is more aucrite . 2f does well gives a little more omph on both ends

when done you know about the cleaning of the rifle. but you also have to wash the casses too or you will lose them.


the proper load for the carbine was 55 gr. with a 405 bullet. to take up the space use more card wads.

[August]

I weigh for long range, precision rifle. I dip for pistol cartridges.

[montana_charlie]

if i wanted 70 grains, how can i measure it? i was told i cant weigh it like smokless cause it goes by volume instead of weight. is this bogus?
You can do it either way because the difference is small, and not critical enough to be at all dangerous.

If you fill a volume-type muzzleloader's measure set at '70', the charge will not weigh 70 grains, but it will be a 'proper load' for the 45/70 cartridge.

You can also weigh out 70 grains of powder on a scale, and that will also be a 'proper load'...but it will be more powder than the volume-measured charge.

JUST BE SURE you are using black powder...and not a BP substitute. THOSE are to be measured BY VOLUME ONLY!

CM

[1874Sharps]

I am with Charlie on this subject. I think you can successfully load a 45-70 either volumetrically or by weight. I am not sure will see the difference on paper, either, although my experience is not with long range shooting, but rather short to mid range (400 yards) shooting with the Sharps. If you use a rotary measure such as a Lyman 55 and set it according to weight (after dropping about 7-8 charges that go back into the hopper to settle the powder therein) and swing the charge handle consistently and weigh every tenth or so charge, you should get good results. You cannot go wrong with just weighing out the charge, either. The use of a drop tube or vibrating instrument such as an electric razor to settle the powder in the case is essential. Try just pouring the BP from a funnel and then using a drop tube on the next one and look at the difference in powder column height -- it will be quite substantial. Most powders seem to shoot better with a little (say around 1/8") or moderate compression. There are commercially made powder compression dies for this purpose available from Buffalo Arms and other places I am sure. I use SPG lube as well. It was developed by a championship shooter and works quite well and alot better than the witch's brew lubes I made a few times.

Hey Montana Charlie, I just have to ask you something: Why do you go by CM instead of MC? Is CM the dyslexic version of MC?

[montana_charlie]

Hey Montana Charlie, I just have to ask you something: Why do you go by CM instead of MC? Is CM the dyslexic version of MC?
My username is montana_charlie, so many will abbreviate that as MC when addressing a comment to me.

I 'sign' my posts (with my initials) for the same reason I would sign a letter...I said it, and I take responsibility for it.

My name is Charlie Maxwell, ergo...
CM

(the avatar is our registered livestock brand...the Rocking CM)

[wisconsin]

so is dropping enough compression for say 55grs /overcard/535grn boolit in 45/70 or should i get a compression die also ?

[wisconsin]

okay i see moderate compression 1/8 in with die.

[excess650]

Many of us who have shot BPCRS extensively throw charges with a measure, trickle them into the case through a 24" or longer droptube, add an overpowder wad, and then compress with a compression die.

BP varies in density from manufacturer to manufacturer, and from lot to lot. The trick is finding a volume that works in YOUR rilfe with your choice of bullets. It will require a good BP lube and blowtube unless you plan on wiping between shots. The amount of compression on the powder will vary from brand to brand. Elephant ffg can be made to shoot pretty cleanly with almost no compression. Goex ffg can work very well with up to .150" or so. Be aware that compressing the powder can fracture the grains and alter the perceived burning rate, and increase the variation from shot to shot.

Lots of us worked long and hard to develop loads that work with a blowtube so as to minimize movement behind the gun and maximize time behind the sights. My own rifles and loads will allow me to continue shooting until the barrel is uncomfortably hot. I'm talking about 30-40 shots before allowing it to cool, and then really only needing to give it 3-4 breaths and a dry patch to push the fouling out.

[Gunlaker]

so is dropping enough compression for say 55grs /overcard/535grn boolit in 45/70 or should i get a compression die also ?

I expect that 535gr bullet will likely have a fair bit more than 55gr of black under it. I've loaded between 63gr and 68gr with varying compression.

Read this and it'll have all you need to get started.

http://www.ssbpcrc.co.uk/Resources/Introduction%20to%20BPCR%20Loading.pdf

I'm new to this BPCR game, but that intro, and MLV's Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West seems to have gotten me off to a good start.

That and advice from guys like Montana Charlie, Ranch13 and others :-P

Chris.

[cajun shooter]

The amount of compression also depends on the chamber of your rifle. While I might compress a load .310 to seat the bullet in my rifle you might use less or more for your rifle.

[JIMinPHX]

Since you say that you don't use black powder much, I would just like to make sure that you do know that black powder & open air spaces are a no-no. With modern smokeless powders, there is no problem having only a small portion, like 25% of the case capacity taken up by the powder charge & the rest being just free air. With fast powders like Bullseye & 231, this is quite normal. With black powder, you do not want to do that. Do not short charge a case with a partial load of black powder thinking that you are making a soft target load. You can blow a gun up that way.