Lee tumble lube with micro bands wave of the future?

[tackstrp]

L have purchased a number of boxes of lead bullet that have a dry lube and some kind of cross hatching instead of bands with lube. Seems to me the wave of the future in casting and lead bullets will be dry lube. Lee micro band tumble lube seems to be the leader by offering a micro band in 9 mm, 358 and 430 sizes. The next step will be these calibers with a gas check.

Makes me think. Only have one lee sizer and a lee 358 micro band. . i was not that pleased with my results but found out that i was using way to much canned smoke amd getting undersized and out of round bullets. Not knowing what I was doing I sen t the sizing die to be repaired. Blamed the sizer not the real problem *ME*.

When get my sizing die back from Lee will try again, and sprinkle some mica on.

[Rocky Raab]

If you read the instructions (yeah, yeah - I know) I believe it says that Lee TL bullets should NOT be sized but simply tumble-lubed and shot as cast. My small experience with TL molds is that Lee is spot on; they shoot better that way.

I cast, tumble with LLA and after drying sprinkle lightly with mica to reduce the tackiness. No complaints.

[Sprue]

I'll stick with the old antiquated style. ;)

If your boolits don't just fall out then I think that you would be better off by lapping it.

Good Luck have a grrrrrreat weekend.


http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh266/spilihp_2007/FirstGasChecks2.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh266/spilihp_2007/4a3cd1be.jpg

[mooman76]

If you read the instructions (yeah, yeah - I know) I believe it says that Lee TL bullets should NOT be sized but simply tumble-lubed and shot as cast. My small experience with TL molds is that Lee is spot on; they shoot better that way.

I cast, tumble with LLA and after drying sprinkle lightly with mica to reduce the tackiness. No complaints.

It does not say not to size tumble lube bullets. It states that in many cases you can shoot as cast without sizing.

[HeavyMetal]

I do belive the tumble lube / mico band boolits are good idea, just can't wait until they incorperate it into a decent boolit design!

Seriously so many of the lube groove type molds are out there, and they are so well thought of, that the micro band is not going to be a "threat" to the market any time in this century.

[Shiloh]

The grooves collapse when trying to size down much. I run all mine through a LEE sizer die for consistancy. The oversize ones swage a little, but I lube and shoot 'em anyway. Never had a lick of trouble. I believe it is Hornady lead bullets that have the cross hatched lube area with a dry powdered wax lube.

Shiloh

[RMulhern]

So.....I want to 'tumble' my lead bullets?? IMO...that makes about as much sense as pulling 'Ole Blue' out and taking one against a 100 MPH wind!! That would be a really good idea for making a radius at all surfaces that are supposed to have sharp edges and flat surfaces!

Nope....I don't think so!!

[Bret4207]

I don't think I'll be throwing my standard designs out anytime soon. The Lyman Loverin designs are what Lee copied his micro band design from, I'm sure, and they shoot much better than the Lee's. The Lee's shoot good and there's nothing wrong with them, but there are other designs that work even better in many applications.

Dry lube? Is there something new out there in that line?

[Recluse]

So.....I want to 'tumble' my lead bullets?? IMO...that makes about as much sense as pulling 'Ole Blue' out and taking one against a 100 MPH wind!! That would be a really good idea for making a radius at all surfaces that are supposed to have sharp edges and flat surfaces!

Nope....I don't think so!!

I think the "tumble lube" is simply a figure of speech, more or less, for the lubing method--although I do know people who toss their boolits in a ziplock bag, squirt a little LLA and then tumble. Better descriptor might be "swirl lube." I put my boolits in an old Cool Whip tub and swirl them around until the LLA/JPW concoction is evenly coated.

When I got my first TL mould, I was like you. "Tumble my freshly poured boolits--are they CRAZY?" I put between fifty and a hundred in a freezer bag, squirted some LLA in it, and then went even one step further: I put the bag in my Thumler's Tumbler and let them truly "tumble" for two minutes.

I examined each boolit as I was setting them upright on some wax paper. I didn't see any dings or anything to suggest that the tumbling hurt anything. In fairness, I prefer a bit harder alloy and I almost always water-drop.

Only problem I had with TL boolits was getting it through my thick skull that less is better when it comes to lubing--the less LLA or JPW or whatever you use, the better and cleaner they shoot.

Oh, and regardless of what Lee says, I size every single boolit I cast.

My number one shooting boolit is a TL158SWC. Out of everything I have, no other boolit has outperformed this one. I love it.

:coffee:

[runfiverun]

how the hell am i gonna get dry lube through a star?

[tackstrp]

I resisted using the lee tumble lube and alox Swore i would never sell my lyman sizer/luber and my one lyman 4 cavity mold. 44 mag 245 grain or something like that. I changed my mind.

I am a total lee alox (white label version) now. no more lyman molds. and wil move my 450 lyman sizer off my work beanch as soon as i convince myself i will never use again. I only cast in 9 mm and 38/357. with lee tumble lube molds. I tried putting a little Johnson paste wax on my fingers before it pick up the castbullet to sit on the sizing stem. Seems to work. I let them dry over night, and it drys hard. Then it do the cool whip tube and alos swirl and dump on wax paper.

I pulled a few cast bullets to see how the micro grooves got deformed. Yes they do get flaten out some, I taper crimp my 9mm and my 38/357 bullets. The only way I have to make a jusdgement is look for signs of leading. I figure no leading then no problem.. So far I dont see any leading problems.

Any way for my needs Lee TL moulds do the trick.

[yondering]

Lee tumble lube with micro bands wave of the future?

Not hardly. They're a decent shortcut for processing lots of blasting ammo with minimum effort, but they hardly make traditional designs obsolete.

I do think the tumble lube design would be good for paper patching, but Lee has yet to offer a TL design that fits my paper patching interests.

[anachronism]

I embraced the concept when it first came out. Then reality set in. The stuff sticks to my seating die, it sticks to my crimping die, if I put the loaded ammo in a baggie, the lube gets all over my cases, which should be cleaned off before shooting. The dies have to be disassembled & cleaned, the ammo wiped off, and then the next time I load, I get to do it all over again. So I sold the moulds, I used the lube to keep some machine parts from rusting, LLAs originally designed purpose: http://yarchive.net/gun/long_term_storage.html I bought a lubrisizer & never went back.

[ANeat]

I embraced the concept when it first came out. Then reality set in.

Me too

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h165/aneat/Lead/DSC00962.jpg

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=152&pictureid=836

[anachronism]

Beautious!

[Slow Elk 45/70]

A Neat, very nice boolits!!!!!!

[Willbird]

I hope it is not the wave of the future, I hate it :-). MY biggest issue with it is that the whole bullet (nose and base both) does not NEED lubed. maybe Lee will make a cheap plastic machine with some rollers in it to just apply LLA to the driving surfaces of the bullet.

The TL bullets are also somewhat harder to judge proper fillout in a mold IMHO. I'm pretty sure that most of the fiddling around people do with LLA I could paper patch just as fast.

Bill

[tackstrp]

Sure pretty bullets. out of that star sizer.

[awaveritt]

It's hard to argue with the economics of the TL movement. My perception, gleaned from this forum, is that Lee and it's TL concept has successfully cornered a good share of the market. That said, I'm currently looking for a Lyman 358156 GC boolit mould for my new Marlin.

[ANeat]

Thanks guys; Like others I did the tumble lube thing for a while, all the good reasons to NOT do it have been hit on.

Its a good way to lube bullets for sure but its not the only good way, obviously its not for everyone.

I still recommend it (tumble lubing) for someone wanting to see if they like casting but most seem to migrate towards a proper lube sizer if they get real serious

[imashooter2]

Not that I've tried every mold they make, but the ones I have tried didn't work nearly as well as conventional designs.

And since film lube works great on conventional designs, I can't see any advantage to microband at all.

[AriM]

The "TL" designs are just awful (IMO)...the micro bands never fill out as well as they should, and the 200 SWC is a less than spectacular design....I think the better option would be to provide a bandless/grooveless design....which is slightly undersized (by no more than a thousandth....and then provide a lube "kit"...with some kind of wax/alox based fluid and then a bag of powdered graphite....notice I didn't say mica...I looked up mica on the mineral hardness scale and it's quite a bit harder than one would imagine 8 MoHS.....graphite, on the other hand, is no harder than talc, which is rated at 1 MoHS....I doubt the mica would cause any significant wear in the bore, but the graphite is an all around better dry lube....

the cross hatch pattern boolit you are referring to is the Hornady design....they are swaged and then knurled....the entire boolit is coated in a wax based substrate, with some kind of dry lube (as you suggested)....

I think the subject of lubing might be a simple matter to resolve....it comes down to volume....how many do you need to do...at what cost....and how much time do you want to spend....

I will not speak to the merits or detractions of ANY lube method....as they all seem to accomplish the same end result....

if you want to look to the future, I imagine it would be a polymer/epoxy type coating....with a teflon or other high temp. lube mixed in...those products already exist on the market, but the trouble is application....I imagine in the future, that "spray lubing" will catch on....but for now it seems that it's hard to beat a good ole' lube/sizer and some elbow grease....it seems to fit the needs of the average user, running a reasonable volume....and I can hardly see a reason to complain about the results....clean pretty boolits....

still I think the tumble method has merits, and deserves a better set of products and a better process, than LEE provides us with....that is a pet project of mine....still don't know if it is cost effective or worth the development....but so far my results have been stellar, and I will continue to investigate the process....

[Bret4207]

It's hard to argue with the economics of the TL movement. My perception, gleaned from this forum, is that Lee and it's TL concept has successfully cornered a good share of the market. That said, I'm currently looking for a Lyman 358156 GC boolit mould for my new Marlin.

I think it would be more accurate to say Lee has captured a good portion of the mould market, but that's based on price and availability as much as anything else. The TL designs are okay, but they don't work for everyone in all situations.

[Gee_Wizz01]

I was skeptical at first also, but I bought the TL358-158SWC. My first attempts with this bullet were not very satisfactory and it sat on the shelf for about 10 years without being used. I was at the range one day a saw another guy using this boolit and he was tearing up the bullseyes. After a talking with him I found I was using way to much LLA on my boolits. I went back home and cast up a couple hundred new ones, and thinned my LLA 1:1 with Mineral Spirtits. I gave all the boolits a nice light coat of thinned LLA, and they dried nice and hard by the next morning. I had no more gunk stuck in my seating die and the boolits weren't sticky. I shot some of my best groups at the range that weekend with my .357 Mag. At 1250 fps (chronographed) I am not getting any leading. I do size the rounds through a Lee .358 die most of the time, but I see little difference on the target. Recently I purchased Ranch Dog Molds in .44 Mag and .45-70. The RD boolits shoot like a like a house on fire! I had never found a cast boolit that would shoot well in my .44Mag Rossi Puma, until I tried the RD .432-265, it now produces 1" groups at 50yds with velocities of 1600 fps and no leading. The RD .460-420 and .460-350 shoot even better in my Marlin GG. I thank Ranch Dog has proven that the Micro-Lube boolits can provide outstanding results over and over again.

G

[Willbird]

part of the reason I keep the stuff around is that if I want to try some oddball thing that I do not have a lube sizer die for I can put LLA on a bullet, so for example if a guy has ONE 8mm rifle, he can maybe use LLA for that one rifle and not need to buy a lube sizer die that will not see a lot of use.

I have not tried pan lube well enough to perfect it...maybe I should :-).

Bill

[yondering]

I think the better option would be to provide a bandless/grooveless design....which is slightly undersized (by no more than a thousandth....and then provide a lube "kit"...

AriM, I won't try to speculate on how well this would or wouldn't work, but:
I've found it's pretty easy to knurl a bullet with a coarse file. I'm doing this on one of my paper patched bullets, and on a 12 gauge slug. (See the knurled bullet in the picture below) This type of knurling may be sufficient to hold a lube like LLA or what you suggest.

18584
not sure what I did wrong on the attachment, but the link works.

[AriM]

AriM, I won't try to speculate on how well this would or wouldn't work, but:
I've found it's pretty easy to knurl a bullet with a coarse file. I'm doing this on one of my paper patched bullets, and on a 12 gauge slug. (See the knurled bullet in the picture below) This type of knurling may be sufficient to hold a lube like LLA or what you suggest.

18584
not sure what I did wrong on the attachment, but the link works.



I am not able to do anything more than speculate either....since I don't have this design.....but it is the way most of the "black bullets" are produced......including hornadys mentioned design....I think the knurling is a great idea....corbin makes a machine to do it....but your method looks like it produces excellent results....my guess is that the largest benefit from the knurling, would not be lube retention....instead I think that the ridges on the pattern would deform (smash down) while seating, and provide a more uniform fit within the case...that's just a guess though....where did you manage to find a band less design mould?? that is something I would really like to have made....a 200 gn. round nose in .4515, no bands and a slight BB, with a dimple in the sprue (to create a concave base)....probablly more trouble than it's worth.....but I seem to like chasing solutions to problems that don't exist ;-)

very nice boolits BTW....

[TAWILDCATT]

I have a couple lee tumble lube molds.the 312-160 TL.I shot it in my springfield 1903 and got 1 in groups at 100 yds.same as my Lyman 311291.
some of you try to complicate things.just dip the TL bullet to the top of groves.and let them sit over night.I dont size them.the rifle will size them.
I have two lyman 45s and use them on some bullets,mainly to lube them.most lead bullets should be couple thou over bore any way.your all making to much on nit picking.

[Willbird]

I have a couple lee tumble lube molds.the 312-160 TL.I shot it in my springfield 1903 and got 1 in groups at 100 yds.same as my Lyman 311291.
some of you try to complicate things.just dip the TL bullet to the top of groves.and let them sit over night.I dont size them.the rifle will size them.
I have two lyman 45s and use them on some bullets,mainly to lube them.most lead bullets should be couple thou over bore any way.your all making to much on nit picking.

Naa we just don't like the stuff, and we don't generally like the bullets designed to use it.

Those that love it do not agree, and there is room for a lot of that in bullet casting and reloading.

The LEE TL and TL bullets have been around for what 20-25 years ?? And they did not obsolete lube bullet groove bullets yet, and never will probably.

Bill

[tward]

Hi all, Just wondering if anyone has tried the 356 125 gr tumble lubes in the 38 special? Thinking bout getting a mold for plinking in my 38 and wondered about this.
Tward/tim

[tackstrp]

the more I tumble lube the more I prefer over my Lyman 450 lube/szier wth the new tyle handle. Keep it only because may find a need for it some day, like many of the tools I have had for 30 or 40 years and used once. or not at all.

Friend has two star sizers, trying to convince him to go with white lable xlox, and junk those star sizers.

[Slow Elk 45/70]

The tumble lube boolits are fine for people that are needing boolits for a lot of blasting and not worried about much else...other than that, I will stay with my conventional molds, use what ever trips your trigger.....IMHO:cbpour:

[res45]

Well I've only been casting my own lead for a couple months,I didn't have any preconceived notions about which bullet design was good or bad. My decision was all based on economics.

Both the Lee TL 358 and 312 designs I have throw great bullets and I couldn't be more happy with how they have turned out and are preforming in my SKS,M44 and Ruger BH. I just wish they made a few more TL designs for other calibers in there standard line of molds.

[Jon]

I had problems with my 1911 when I didn't size them, but, they would probably work fine in a revolver.

[mroliver77]

I started out with a couple TL moulds and then a couple conventional type. I used the lube straight and hated the results. Boolits shot ok but it took too much time wiping the bases and noses clean and setting each boolit on its base as the directions stated. I got a good deal on a Lyman 450 that gave me heartaches by the number. Anytime I leaned on the pressure screw a little it would blow the "o" ring out of the lube screw base and ruin it. I cleaned this thing and gave it the once over a dozen times. I finally told myself I would lick it if I had to live out there with it until I did. After having it apart and back together so many times I wanted to set down and bawl, I noticed the seat cut for the screw base thingy was cut into he cast iron body at an angle.I ended up buying a new pressure screw and epoxied the screw seat into the body. I then lapped the screw into the seat straight and walla, it has worked like a gem since. I have also acquired an RCBS unit, an old Ideal #1 and two Stars. All boolits whether TL or conventional are sized and lubed on one of these units. I bought a Ranch Dog mould for a 38-55 and followed his TL directions. It worked well but slow. Boolits are beautiful and shoot fantastic. I got the dies I needed fro Buckshot and never looked back!
Jay

[Rodfac]

I've cast since the late 60's and used a lyman sizer lubricator for all of that time. Last yr I bought a Marlin 336 in .44 Magnum with an over sized bore. The biggest sizer I had for the lyman tool was .430" and I couldn't size and lube to the necessary .432". Accuracy was non existent. In desperation, I tried lymans' 429215 gc, an oversize mold from my early days. It's so big that Hornady gc's won't slip on the base. I tried LLA using the butter tub method and got good 1.5" accuracy at 50 yds shooting them 'as cast'.

Finally a fellow member here suggested flaring the gas check with a ball peen hammer, I s--t you not! Using another light hammer to lightly tap a 2nd hammer with its smooth ball worked just fine. It took a minute or two to find just the right amt. of tap to do the job...Straight w-w bullets drop at .433" and I seat the check on them using the lyman sizer. Then it's off to one of Lee's push through sizers in .432", from Ranch Dog bless his heart, and I have a bullet that's superbly accurate in any .44 cal rifle or hand gun I own. Over size you say?...They work well, don't lead and I don't push them hard in the hand guns. Could I have shot the .433's as cast with just the lube,....yep, but they won't chamber in the hand guns, so sizing is necessary for cross loading purposes.

You could have bowled me over with a feather when those "ball peen hammered gc's" and WW bullets gave me 1" gps at 50 yds.

LLA is a method that I'd laughed at...and as one poster earlier pointed out...tumble...and wreck all those pretty edges?...hey..padnuh, it works 100% in my guns. I limit the amt of squirt in the bag or bowl and wipe them off quickly with alcohol on a rag when the loads are complete. I don't bother setting them upright on wax paper, I just tumble them out and let them dry over night. I do find that thinning the LLA 50% with mineral spirits cuts down on the amt. of wastage and makes cleaning up a lot easier.

It's a heck of lot faster then running them through the Lyman even with the separate check seating operation. And the accuracy is 1" at 50 yds with the carbine, and a little over an inch the Rugers and S&W's at 25 yds. That's as good as my old eyes can see anymore...these are open sight groups, guys. A 2.5 Leupold Alaskan scope on the Marlin improves the gps, but maybe not as much as you'd think...it cuts about a 1/4" off the dia. and makes them more symmetrical.

Regards, Rodfac

[NoDakJak]

I feel vindicated by post #13. People have been telling me that I was crazy for years when I stated that I thought that Liquid Alox was one and the same as the Peracatone that we used as an anti corrosion preventative on our aircraft. LLA certainly works but I much prefer standard lubed boolit designs. When we had the special order Lee molds for the .310 Martini boolit I voted for a lube groove first choice and Lee tumble lube grooves for a second choice. Alas!!!! We ended up with a boolit with no lube grooves! Unbelieveable!!!! All is not lost however! By finger lubing with JPW I have achieved decent accuracy with no leading up to 1,000 fps during my limited testing. I would be much happier with at least Lee micro grooving but that may prove to be a personal prejudice. Is it possible that we don't need lube grooves with our modern lubes and smokeless powders. A good lube and plenty of it was a definite requirement with black powders but is it a hold out from the past? Darned if I know and I am certainly willing to let someone else lead in the necessary experiments to find the proper results. In the mean time I will stick with my 50/50 Alox and JPW. Neil

[Crash_Corrigan]

I lube my TL Lee boolits with two light coatings of LLA. Then when they are dry I coat them with corn starch to keep them from messing things up. When I run them thru my Dillon dies in the 550 press about every couple of hundred rounds or so I remove the guts from the dies and clean with mineral spirits and reinsert them into the dies.

The Dillon design makes that a simple and rapid procedure and my bullet seating depth does not change. I only use these on .38 and 357's. For my .45 ACP's I lube with a Saeco Luber and white label carnuba red.

[KCSO]

Wave of the future??? I had to go look, I've got a box of Alberts cross hatched bullets from 1972. Seems to me that Horandy?? or Speer also made tumble lube bullets way back when. I've shot a few of the Lee Tumble lube styles but I have so many older moulds for handguns that I just don't need to may new ones.

[sheepdog]

I've found Recluse's Alox/JPW/MS mix to be a damn good lube on Lee TL boolits. No smoke, leading, good accuracy. And it makes the Alox last and long long time :)

[wallenba]

Thanks guys; Like others I did the tumble lube thing for a while, all the good reasons to NOT do it have been hit on.

Its a good way to lube bullets for sure but its not the only good way, obviously its not for everyone.

I still recommend it (tumble lubing) for someone wanting to see if they like casting but most seem to migrate towards a proper lube sizer if they get real serious

+1. I went the TL route too for economy, quickly got tired of waiting the drying period before loading. Bought a 4500, never looked back, not that tumble lubing is bad, just did'nt work for me.

[selmerfan]

I have both, my TL bullet is Ranch Dog's 359-190-RF. I size mine with the sizing kit he sells with it for .359". TL, size, TL again. I don't mind the drying period, and I LOVE the results out of my .357 Max. Just under 1900 fps with RL7, just over MOA groups at 100 yds out of my 15" braked barrel. I'm in for the group buy on this mold in 6 cavity when it opens up.
Selmerfan

[zardoz]

First boolit I ever cast was the TL452-230-2R. Lubed it with straight JPW, and had a great experience. Now days, I still use that mould, but mix LLA with JPW. I dry them in a toaster oven set at low.

It has worked great with no leading, in both a Taurus PT145 and a Springfield 1911A1.

I have not had so much luck with high pressure, high velocity rounds for 9mm and 40S&W using the TL design. But if I back down on the power, they seem to work fine. I don't size any of those TL boolits ever.

[Cowboy T]

Most of the boolits I cast are the traditional lube groove type. I still use LLA on them, even for Magnum loads. They all shoot great, with no leading. The boolits are Lee's 358-158-RF, 358-105-SWC, and 452-200-RF.

The 158-grainers, I don't resize at all, because they drop right between 0.3575" and 0.3585". Same for the 452-200's. The 358-105-SWC's, they could use a *little* sizing, depending on the cavity, so I do size those. One light coat of LLA for sizing, followed by a light-to-medium coat after sizing.

I'm also casting up some TL430-200-SWC's this weekend or the next. I tried out a short run when I first bought the mould, and I'm getting fine boolit fill-out. The mould is dropping them right at .4295" to 0.4305, which is near perfect. The key is to run that pot hot, at least 750 deg. F.

[pls1911]

Liquid alox /Xlox has it's place.
Used alone or in concert with traditional lube it's the real thing when no leading is the objective, and as stated above less is normally better.
For pistols, a diluted wash alone works fine on unsized bullets under 850-900 fps.
For rifles I use a 20-30% thinned wash over the bearing portion of the boolit, AFTER normal gas check/ size/lube is finished. Un plain base 45-70 bullets there's a little ring of extra lube dried around the base.
I get great accuracy... and never any leading to 2500 fps, though my loading is normally only 1800-1900 fps for accuracy, and pressures are moderate.

AND it's great to use diluted as a rust preventive storage coat (think cosmoline) and threadlocker for non critical applications (retards unthreading without locking a nut or bolt permanently), and yes, it's even a great gasket sealer for some applications... it's very similar to the permatex, but less viscous.

[Char-Gar]

Hand-loading with all of it's component parts which includes casting has always been a quest for quality and accuracy in my mind. I am not looking for the fastest way, but the best way.

I believe in that one carefully aimed shot. Top drawer ammo, sight picture, breath control, trigger control and proper mounting of the weapon is the name of the game for me.

I am at the Range every Saturday and it seems the vast number of folks there just want to send as many rounds down range as they can, as fast as they can. It would seem that riflecraft and pistolcraft are no longer valued much, by the newer generation of shooters. In fact, they don't seem to know the basics of marksmanship.

Ergo... I don't tumble lube or use those bullets designed designed for that practice, and don't think it will ever take over. Maybe it will, but not in my shop.

[fatelk]

I must be doing something wrong, because a thin coat of alox/jpw simply does not work for me, at least in my .45. I'm using the Lee 45-230-TC-TL bullet sized for the bore. A light coat of tumble lube leaves leading. Two coats leaves less leading. When I go back to old-fashioned lube in the grooves, all leading goes away.

Yes, I've tried about everything; hard lead, soft lead, faster or slower, etc.
I know that you guys who say a thin coat works can't all be wrong, but I sure can't get it to work for me.

[Cowboy5780]

See our member (Lar45's LsStuff) i use his version of the xlox never had a bit of leading in any of my guns i use it in!!!!!!! I know some of its my good luck but theres a big difference in the consistency of his and the lee alox.

[Cowboy T]

Hand-loading with all of it's component parts which includes casting has always been a quest for quality and accuracy in my mind. I am not looking for the fastest way, but the best way.

I believe in that one carefully aimed shot. Top drawer ammo, sight picture, breath control, trigger control and proper mounting of the weapon is the name of the game for me.

I am at the Range every Saturday and it seems the vast number of folks there just want to send as many rounds down range as they can, as fast as they can. It would seem that riflecraft and pistolcraft are no longer valued much, by the newer generation of shooters. In fact, they don't seem to know the basics of marksmanship.

Ergo... I don't tumble lube or use those bullets designed designed for that practice, and don't think it will ever take over. Maybe it will, but not in my shop.

I agree with you, except for the inference about tumble lube boolits being designed for just sending a hail of lead downrange. I go for that one carefully aimed shot, too. Tumble lube boolits shoot in my guns just as well as the ones w/ traditional lube grooves. If someone can't shoot decently with a handgun at 25 paces, it's the operator, not the boolit.

I don't know about riflecraft, but pistolcraft has definitely suffered. Not too long ago, the g/f and I did an "Intro to IPSC" course. We had our .357M revolvers, and there were three others (two guys and a girl) that had all this trick-holster gear, semiautos accessorized out the wazoo, you name it. I tell ya, they were *tactical*, man! They obviously spent some money. We could tell they were kinda turning up their noses at our "outdated" revolvers with our "non-tactical" holster kit.

Now we go up to shoot some metal targets.

My g/f and I:
POW-Ping!
POW-Ping!
POW-Ping!
POW--(oops)
POW-Ping!
POW-Ping!
(reload and continue)

These three tactical folks:
POW...POW...POWPOW...POW...POW-Ping!
POW-POW-POW...POW...POW-Ping!
POW...POW...POW...POW...POW...POW-Ping!
(reload and continue)

and so on. Couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, but doggone it, they were TACTICAL, BABY!!!

[Bkid]

Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician - Col Jeff Cooper
Newbie here and I am learning about casting bullets.Thanks CowboyT for the videos on You tube. I found them to be very helpful. I shoot about 500 rounds every other day and would like to say hello to all here. I hope to gain a lot of info ,and it looks like I am at the right place.

[Cowboy T]

You're quite welcome, and I'm glad they were helpful. Actually, I've only been casting for the last 6 months (soon to be 7), so I'm a newbie too. That's why I did the videos, so folks could see it from a newbie's perspective.

If you're looking at moulds for handgun calibers, I'd strongly suggest a Lee six-cavity model. They just plain work well, better in my experience than the 2-cavity models. And I'd also go for a mould that uses traditional lube grooves. Such boolits work great with either the traditional 50/50 beeswax/Alox lube or the Liquid Alox, so you have that flexibility. The "tumble lube groove" moulds are for Liquid Alox only. As I mentioned, I do have one, and I like it, but it wasn't my first mould.

[Bkid]

You're quite welcome, and I'm glad they were helpful. Actually, I've only been casting for the last 6 months (soon to be 7), so I'm a newbie too. That's why I did the videos, so folks could see it from a newbie's perspective.

If you're looking at moulds for handgun calibers, I'd strongly suggest a Lee six-cavity model. They just plain work well, better in my experience than the 2-cavity models. And I'd also go for a mould that uses traditional lube grooves. Such boolits work great with either the traditional 50/50 beeswax/Alox lube or the Liquid Alox, so you have that flexibility. The "tumble lube groove" moulds are for Liquid Alox only. As I mentioned, I do have one, and I like it, but it wasn't my first mould.

Great info thanks again. I am going to start making some 45 ACP 230 grain ball boolits. I just need to figure out if I need to size them and how to lube them so I do not get a lot of lead fouling.

[dragonrider]

"Originally Posted by anachronism
I embraced the concept when it first came out. Then reality set in."

+1 to the above. I have tumble lubed, I have pan lubed, I have lubed with a Lyman 450 and a Star. the Star is all I will ever use.

[Bkid]

"Originally Posted by anachronism
I embraced the concept when it first came out. Then reality set in."

+1 to the above. I have tumble lubed, I have pan lubed, I have lubed with a Lyman 450 and a Star. the Star is all I will ever use.

To bad it is so expensive . Bullets look good that come out of one though.

[Rock021710]

Well I've only been casting my own lead for a couple months,I didn't have any preconceived notions about which bullet design was good or bad. My decision was all based on economics.

Both the Lee TL 358 and 312 designs I have throw great bullets and I couldn't be more happy with how they have turned out and are preforming in my SKS,M44 and Ruger BH. I just wish they made a few more TL designs for other calibers in there standard line of molds.



I have wondered about reloading for the SKS rifle. I shoot mine a good bit but may be more economical in buying the cheap stuff (berdan primed steel case). I still get pretty good accuracy, averages about 1.5 moa. Did handloading tighten your groups up or just less expensive in your area.

Thomas

[tackstrp]

resisted the tumble lube. and the lee sizer . Will be listing my Lyman and sizing dies in due time . wish to keep a bit longer, just in case, some reason comes up to buy a regular mold with grease grooves. I cast, 9mm 124 grains, 10 mm 175 grain, 357/38 158 grain. No plans for new molds. I also cast 105 grain .356 for my 380 with a single grease groove. but I do the tumble lube.

[deerslayer]

I get good results from the tumble lube but I will say that i take a beautiful lead boolit and when I get done it looks like someone blew a snotrocket on it.

[azrednek]

I am at the Range every Saturday and it seems the vast number of folks there just want to send as many rounds down range as they can, as fast as they can.

I love those kind of shooters, most of them leave their brass.

[bohokii]

Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician - Col Jeff Cooper

yea well either way you're gonna make lots of noise

[dukenukum]

I use a tumble lube for the .45 auto but size and lube it in a Lyman 450 sizer with good results. and like cowboy T I don't do tacticool shooting.