Help - I don't want holes in my 2 inch lube sticks

[yammerschooner]

I have begun trying to pour two inch lube sticks for my luber. The problem I am running into is that a hollow cavity appears in the center of the stick as the lube cools. This happens regardless of if the lube is cooled at room temperature or in a freezer. Other than reaming out the hole a little and pouring in more lube after the first pour has cooled, is there another easy way to keep the center hole from appearing?

The two inch sticks I have purchased in the past do not have this hole. How do those producers keep it from happening?

This picture may help explain my dilemma more clearly. This lube stick was cut in half after it had cooled.

http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv253/yammerschooner/holeinlube.jpg

[mooman76]

You could try pouring at a cooler temp like as cool as you can get it before it solidifies. or add mour as it cools to top it off. The hole doesn't really hurt anything if that concerns you. I would assume the manufactures use some kind of injection system to mould their lube and inject it when it is semi solidified state but thats just a guess.

[fredj338]

My first attempt @ pouring into a mold produced the hole. Try pouring slower. The small hoel doesn't hurt anything, put it hole side up in the luber/sizer.

[yammerschooner]

The hole doesn't really hurt anything if that concerns you.

The reason I am pouring my own sticks is because the 1.5 inch sticks I purchased are putting too much air into my luber and it is turning the lube white and puffy as it injects the lube into the boolit grooves (even when the lube temperature is turned down to the point where it will barely flow at 90-100 psi).

I replaced a broken rubber o ring because I was getting lube flow out of the top of the machine, and the trapped air has become more of a problem.

[yammerschooner]

put it hole side up in the luber/sizer.

The hole runs all the way through the center, minus about 1.5 inches towards the base of the stick.

I probably just haven't found the right temperature yet.

[theperfessor]

If your lube is turning white and puffy, it could be trapped moisture from the air that has emulsified with the oil due to the effects of any detergent type material in your lube. Just a thought...

[yammerschooner]

If your lube is turning white and puffy, it could be trapped moisture from the air that has emulsified with the oil due to the effects of any detergent type material in your lube. Just a thought...


Are you (or anyone) aware of this happening with Jake's Purple? I looked up emulsification, but was unable to determine if this is something that can happen with any lube, or whether it is something that would be lube specific. Please, school me.

[qajaq59]

You could pour the stick just a bit longer and then cut it off flat to where you want it.

[Trey45]

I don't know if this will work or not, but try pouring a few inches at a time, allow it to cool some, pour some more and allow it to cool and so on until you have your desired length of lube stick. Heat expands, cool contracts, my guess is as it cools it's contracting from the outside edges first and drawing the middle outward giving you the hole through the center. Pouring a few inches at a time "may" solve this by having less hot outer surface cooling at once. Just a guess here, if it works that's great, if not, back to the old drawing board.

[runfiverun]

i had the same problem of air looking lube with jakes too. i thought it was cause i still had some magma lube in the star.
i had to run it hot and low pressure for a while then get the heat turned down and the pressure up.
i saved the jakes for a hardener for my made lubes.

[TAWILDCATT]

I got a deep fryer and mixed my lube.have electric conduit cut to lenth and mounted on a board with plastic caps.I pour into the conduit and dont get that.use a hair dryer to warm tubes if their metal.
the factory are extusions they dont use hot wax.they extrude it cold in continuos stick and cut to length.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[Leftoverdj]

I wonder if a sausage stuffer would work?

[GP100man]

how `bout pourin straight into sizer??
tilting mold while pouring???

that`s all i have to offer.

[UweJ]

have you checked at www.castingstuff.com ?smelter and lube making. They show a pretty nifty setup. I made mine that way and it works like a charm.
Uwe

[theperfessor]

One of the functions of a detergent is to allow oil/grease molecules to be broken up in a way that allows water to chemically combine with them. That's how it gets oil and grease off your hands with water. That's what happens with emulsified oil used by machinists for flood coolant. It starts out as brown as motor oil and turns into something that looks like milk when you add water.

Don't know what's in the lube you mention, it may or may not have anything in it that acts like a detergent. I had that happen to me using a Lyman 450 sizer and regular Alox lube when I didn't get all the water I used to boil it out of the casting. The first part of the stream came out white and airy-looking. Apparently adding pressure to get lube to flow increases this tendency.

You mentioned trapped air and using short sticks of lube, which could trap condensed moisture in your lube. Maybe this isn't your problem, just a suggestion as to the cause of a problem.

[UweJ]

I think if the diameter of the lube stick doesn´t fill out the reservoir you automatically trap air in the lubesizer. pouring the lube straight into the sizer might do the trick like GP100man mentioned.
Uwe

[finishman2000]

i don't know how much you make or if it be worth the time to set up but if you pull a vacuum on the wet pour you won't get any bubbles because all the air will be gone.
Maybe make a box caulked tight and a loose top with a gasket on it. use metal nipples, pour as usual but wrap the pipes with gutter heater to make sure they won't harden until all the molds are poured.......unplug the heater and put the cord right in the box (quickest way). just drop the lid on and have a hole in the side of the box tight enough for a shop vac hose end to be forced in. run the vac until they set up. there won't be any air in you sticks.
i do something like this when i make rubber molds and plastic canopies for my r/c planes.

[grindal]

What kind of pariffin percentage are you using? If it is high you can try the old trick that candle makers use to get the air pockets out, really simple too. When you fill your mold leave roughly 1/4 to 1/2 inch at the top. After the lube mix starts to cool and set up stab it with a nail or anything kinda long and sharp. This hole will allow release of the air bubbles and then tap the mold on your work surface to force air up and out. The key is to not do this too soon or too late; you want it to be slushy.

After that is done and the initial pour has set up take some more of your melted lube and finish filling your mold. If you want it to not be noticeable where the first pour finished and the second pour started just be sure that you are just high enough over your lubes melt temp so as to melt just a little of the original pour.

[cajun shooter]

Have you tried this lube with less pressure? It sounds as if this could be causing some of your problems.

[mtgrs737]

I like to mix a little Carnuba Red with my BAC so I got a used small sauce pan from a second hand store and use a hot plate to melt the lubes. I then use a funnel made out of the cut off top of a 2-liter pop bottle to fill the lubersizer by pouring it in hot. I get very little air in the lube this way and I can fill it all the way up.

[madman]

The above information should get you a great product. Just my 2cents worth. I make custom Knives and I stabilize my handle materials that I use by adding a polymer to them under vacuum. I place the material in a pressure pot that was used for painting the lid clamps on I have used an old pressure cooker in the past. 1st 1 pressurize the tank to 50 psi this drives the polymer in to the material. I let is sit for a couple of hours. Then I release the pressure and pull a vacuum on it down to 23 to 25 inHG and let it sit like that for 2 days. I have used a bell jar and a set up for doing jewelery casting before you would be amazed at how much air is removed from the liquid and the woods. I would skip the adding the pressure step but you get the basic Idea. As far a vacuum pumps you and use and old refrigerator pump or and old car a/c compressor driven by an electric motor.

[yammerschooner]

You could pour the stick just a bit longer and then cut it off flat to where you want it.


The hole runs all the way through the center, minus about 1.5 inches towards the base of the stick. The above is the halfway mark of a 7-8 inch stick. I doubt I would get more than 1.5 inches.






I don't know if this will work or not, but try pouring a few inches at a time, allow it to cool some, pour some more and allow it to cool and so on until you have your desired length of lube stick.

This works. It is what I am currently doing. I am looking for something that would turn it into a one shot process and keep the lube from having a tendency to break funny when I cut it.







I got a deep fryer and mixed my lube.have electric conduit cut to lenth and mounted on a board with plastic caps.I pour into the conduit and dont get that.use a hair dryer to warm tubes if their metal.
the factory are extusions they dont use hot wax.they extrude it cold in continuos stick and cut to length.:coffee:[smilie=1:
I wonder if using a nonmetal pvc mold will hurt me with an attempt to warm up the mold. It sounds like a good idea. Thanks for the insight into cold extrusion.








I wonder if a sausage stuffer would work?
Interesting approach. I wonder if that would end up with air in the lube or not. I'll bet I would have to be very particular on lube temp trying this approach.







how `bout pourin straight into sizer??
tilting mold while pouring???

My goal is to have sticks ready to go so I don't have to stop the operation and restart. Here is the machine in action. It may shed some light on why pouring in liquid lube just won't work. The sizer is the second link on this page. http://www.yammerschooner.com/Reloading%20%26%20Casting%20Tools.htm







have you checked at www.castingstuff.com ?smelter and lube making. They show a pretty nifty setup. I made mine that way and it works like a charm.
Uwe
The center hole looks to be a benefit on what I saw on there, unless I am missing something. I need to get away from it.









One of the functions of a detergent is to allow oil/grease molecules to be broken up in a way that allows water to chemically combine with them. That's how it gets oil and grease off your hands with water. That's what happens with emulsified oil used by machinists for flood coolant. It starts out as brown as motor oil and turns into something that looks like milk when you add water.

Don't know what's in the lube you mention, it may or may not have anything in it that acts like a detergent. I had that happen to me using a Lyman 450 sizer and regular Alox lube when I didn't get all the water I used to boil it out of the casting. The first part of the stream came out white and airy-looking. Apparently adding pressure to get lube to flow increases this tendency.

You mentioned trapped air and using short sticks of lube, which could trap condensed moisture in your lube. Maybe this isn't your problem, just a suggestion as to the cause of a problem.

Thank you for the enlightenment. This has been a truly educational and enlightening post, and I appreciate it. Thanks.








i don't know how much you make or if it be worth the time to set up but if you pull a vacuum on the wet pour you won't get any bubbles because all the air will be gone.
Maybe make a box caulked tight and a loose top with a gasket on it. use metal nipples, pour as usual but wrap the pipes with gutter heater to make sure they won't harden until all the molds are poured.......unplug the heater and put the cord right in the box (quickest way). just drop the lid on and have a hole in the side of the box tight enough for a shop vac hose end to be forced in. run the vac until they set up. there won't be any air in you sticks.
i do something like this when i make rubber molds and plastic canopies for my r/c planes.

Do you happen to have pictures of this? I would be thoroughly interested in seeing them, as they would seem to address my issue well.










What kind of pariffin percentage are you using? If it is high you can try the old trick that candle makers use to get the air pockets out, really simple too. When you fill your mold leave roughly 1/4 to 1/2 inch at the top. After the lube mix starts to cool and set up stab it with a nail or anything kinda long and sharp. This hole will allow release of the air bubbles and then tap the mold on your work surface to force air up and out. The key is to not do this too soon or too late; you want it to be slushy.

After that is done and the initial pour has set up take some more of your melted lube and finish filling your mold. If you want it to not be noticeable where the first pour finished and the second pour started just be sure that you are just high enough over your lubes melt temp so as to melt just a little of the original pour.
I have no idea how much paraffin is in Jake's purple.

As far as the process you mention, I am currently doing something similar to this, without the tapping. The problem is that while the edges are solid, the inside is very runny. I haven't noticed a moment were only part is slushy. I get the vacuum as it cools from the outside, opening up the center as the cooling material becomes smaller.










Have you tried this lube with less pressure? It sounds as if this could be causing some of your problems.

I've experimented from 20psi, which the luber won't work below, to over 110psi with the same issue.







I like to mix a little Carnuba Red with my BAC so I got a used small sauce pan from a second hand store and use a hot plate to melt the lubes. I then use a funnel made out of the cut off top of a 2-liter pop bottle to fill the lubersizer by pouring it in hot. I get very little air in the lube this way and I can fill it all the way up.
Liquid lube in my setup would be a headache.








The above information should get you a great product. Just my 2cents worth. I make custom Knives and I stabilize my handle materials that I use by adding a polymer to them under vacuum. I place the material in a pressure pot that was used for painting the lid clamps on I have used an old pressure cooker in the past. 1st 1 pressurize the tank to 50 psi this drives the polymer in to the material. I let is sit for a couple of hours. Then I release the pressure and pull a vacuum on it down to 23 to 25 inHG and let it sit like that for 2 days. I have used a bell jar and a set up for doing jewelery casting before you would be amazed at how much air is removed from the liquid and the woods. I would skip the adding the pressure step but you get the basic Idea. As far a vacuum pumps you and use and old refrigerator pump or and old car a/c compressor driven by an electric motor.

Do you happen to have pictures of this? I would be thoroughly interested in seeing them, as they would seem to address my issue well. You seem to have visualized my issue and described a method which would address my stated goals well.











Thank you all for your responses.

[briang]

What about making molds with a large section on top? Like the 2 inch size you want for the length you want, then upside to four or six inches in diameter for a few inches (you can expirement with how much you fill). That way when the two inch part cools it pulls lube from the large portion instead of the center of the stick. After removing them from the mold you can cut off the large portion and remelt and pour them with the next batch.