Another @#$%^& Ruger.....gone!!!

[Trifocals]

Having struggled with a Ruger Vaquero .45 Colt for several years trying to get it to shoot half a**ed decent groups, I lucked into a very decent trade at a local gun shop. While looking over their selection of revolvers, I spotted a U.S. Firearms Rodeo in .45 Colt, used but in pristine condition with box and papers including a blank warranty card. According to the clerk I dealt with, a customer had ordered it, fired a cylinder full or two and decided it was too much gun for him, and sold it back to the shop at a substantial loss. It had a very attractive price tag on it. After working a trade in which I received exactly what I had paid for the Ruger, I now own the Rodeo. I just finished checking it out. Chamber throats all a uniform .451, barrel/cylinder gap .003, forcing cone...perfect. God is good! It's not likely I will be buying any more Ruger handguns. Years ago, I had Ruger revolvers that delivered outstanding accuracy, but the stuff they have been turning out in recent years leaves much to be desired. It just doesn't make much sense to me to purchase a new gun, find that it wont shoot, send it to the manufacturer, get it back with a letter stating that it is within factory specs then spend mega bucks with a pistolsmith to correct all the problems the manufacturer's QC missed or built into the gun. From now on I'll purchase only firearms that are built correctly from the get n" go, have good QC, and have a warranty that the manufacturer stands behind. And they won't be Rugers! :drinks:

[BCB]

Trifocals,

Just curious, why do you think the Ruger was not accurate? Were there problems that were readily visable?

During the past couple of years, I purchase a New Model Blackhawk in 45LC and it shoots the RCBS 45-270-SAA quite well. And I also purchased a Single-Six and it shoots the Federal Champion 22LR extremely accurate at least for me and open sights. It will consitantly hit 12-ounce cans at 75 feet--good enough for me...

Just curious and certainly not doubting your evaluation of the Vacquero...

BCB

[cajun shooter]

Trifocals, You are really in trouble now. That USFA you have is the best SAA being made today. The trouble you are in is that you will buy more!! I have two Premiums that I purchased from Long Hunter (JIM Finch) and they are true pieces of art. The Rodeo is the same gun but with mat finish. The next problem is the owner of USFA (DOUG) has decided to quell production of his Rodeo's and Premiums to make other guns and they are as rare as gold on hen's teeth at this time. I hope that this changes soon. I have a friend who shoots cowboy with me that brags about his Rugers. He then goes on to say that I'm having the guns converted to half cock, and transfer bar removed and this and that. I told him that if he would buy a USFA he would have all that in a stock gun with out having to pay out all the extra stash money.

[44man]

Nothing against the USFA, wonderful gun and I would love to have a few.
Most Ruger .45's need the throats reamed or lapped and a trigger job, but will shoot like this with a job you can do yourself and not spend a penny.
5 shots at 50 yards and the gun has done 1" at 75 yards too.

[Joni Lynn]

Congrats on the USFA. From there you either buy more of the same or go downhill. (or get a Freedom Arms)

[9.3X62AL]

Trifocals--

Sorry to hear that your Vaquero didn't work out well for you, but glad your Rodeo made things better.

I've had reasonably good luck with the several Ruger single actions I've owned or own currently. A couple needed their construction completed and/or dimensioning corrected, but I almost expect such shortfalls these days. Sad state of affairs, but at least Rugers and some other guns are still built in the USA, unlike a lot of other firearms. For whatever that might be worth.

[Dale53]

I have some older Rugers - an original OM Super Blackhawk and a Ruger Redhawk. Neither had an acceptable trigger. I did a trigger job on them both and they are still here. Both are great shooters and were excellent buys. Both are durable and well finished.

In the past few months I bought a Ruger 50th Anniversary .44 Magnum and a Ruger Lipsey .44 Special. Both are shooters and both need a trigger job. Other than the triggers, I have absolutely NO complaints. Considering what I paid for them, a trigger job is small potatoes.

Several years ago, I bought a Ruger Bisley Vaquero. Using it as is except for a trigger job, I won several Black Powder Cartridge matches including some NRA score matches. This fixed sighted handgun shoots EXACTLY to the sights right out of the box (dead on at 25 yards).

So, I have a high opinion of the Rugers by this, admittedly, limited sample. However, that is five guns over a period of several years and all have been good solid shooters.

I DO wish they would fix the triggers. Good grief, S&W learned how to produce nearly every revolver they sent out the door with near perfect triggers over a hundred years ago....

FWIW

Dale53

[Four Fingers of Death]

My experience with Rugers has been inviarably good, both in rifles, auto (only ever owned one, a 45ACP) and with lots of SAs. I had a pair of convertibles and they were good, but the loads for the ACP cylinders would only work when they were screaming along.

My first Vaquero, a 44Mag shot way high, but the pair of NMVs in 45 shoot to point of aim, maybe the previous owner got them sorted.

Overall I am very happy with Rugers, but comparing them to USAFs isn't fair as the cost difference is big, so of course they will be better.

Ruger are building a strong, cheapish revolver for the average joe who will be very happy as a rule. If you bear this in mind (the fact that you are going to have to attend to the finishing that you didn't have to pay for when you bought the gun) when buying, all is well. If you want perfection straight out of the box, the average gun, not just a Ruger ain't gonna cut it.

I just bought a pair of USAFs sight unseen from a colleague. Looking forward to getting home and checking them out.

I haven't even seen a USAF in the flesh yet, but in my experience the only thing that works 100%, no problems, no fuss, straight out of the box is a Glock or a H&G or whatever they are. Thos eSpringfield Loadeds and Some of the better offerings from Kimber, Les Baer, etc are probably in the same boat, but dollar for dollar, the Glocks kick a words

[Heavy lead]

Guess I've been lucky with Ruger's revolvers, never had a dud, had to do trigger jobs on everyone, also fix some things, including reaming cylinder throats, but now I've got all the tools so what the heck. I've had a couple bad bolt rifles though, but also some good ones and three fine number one's as well.
They should do something with the mini 14 though, junk.

[targetshootr]

Rugers may be the best deal on the market. I never had one that wouldn't shoot with a little fixing. My 45 Vaqueros shot as well as some of my custom jobs. l have Rodeos that l like but they can't be horsed like a Ruger. Come to think of it, my first Rodeo had to go back to the factory to have the barrel turned before l could get the ejector housing to come off, it was that far from being straight.

[jack19512]

It's not likely I will be buying any more Ruger handguns.







As you have read so far there are gonna be lots of folks telling you how great their Rugers have been and how they have never had a bad one. :mrgreen: But, having been in your shoes twice now I know just how you feel.

Thankfully though after having my last Ruger SBH 44 mag back to Ruger for almost 3 months for repair I am happy to report it is right now. I have only had the chance to shoot it once since it has been returned to me and have been wanting to do a follow up report but just haven't had the time.

I can say though before Ruger replaced the cylinder and barrel the best I could do was around 5-6 inches at 25 yards with it. My first time out and with my first cast boolits tried since getting it back I shot several (around) 2 inch groups from 29 yards.

I can only say that I sure wish it had been sent out like this to start with as I am no gunsmith and would only make things worse by trying anything. I would like to do a trigger job on the SBH but I lack the tools and confidence to try.

[jameslovesjammie]

It seems that when you read through any Ruger post, they almost all state that theirs shot great after some work. It's too bad Ruger doesn't make a separate line of guns, like S&W does with their Performance Center guns. If this series of guns were assembled with the right cylinder throat sizes and tighter tolerances, I'm confident people would buy them even if there was a considerable price increase. How much does it cost to have one sent out and get the cylinders reamed and action job? If it were right the first time out of the box it would really be a gem!

Ruger owns the single action market just like S&W owns the current double action market. If they introduced a single action premium line they WOULD sell. People who want a cheap revolver could still get one in their standard line and people who want it done right could get one directly from Ruger.

[S.R.Custom]

It seems that when you read through any Ruger post, they almost all state that theirs shot great after some work. It's too bad Ruger doesn't make a separate line of guns, like S&W does with their Performance Center guns.

Ruger's having a hard enough time just keeping the base grade pablum on the shelves. Semi-custom grade guns would be few and far between indeed.

As for S&W, a "Performance Center" stamp on the gun gun does not necessarily mean better performance. I've had a few PC guns over the years, and have had to 'enhance' all of them to get them to function optimally. I've come to the conclusion that "Performance Center" means nothing more than a non-catalogue barrel shape, a bead blast finish, and depending on the model-- media ***** endorsement. (And, of course, a higher price.)

Incidentally, the only thing that's kept Smith & Wesson stock from trading for 2 bits lately is Obama fear; a year and a half ago it was trading for $22 a share. But right before the election it had dropped to $1.60... (It currently trades for 5 and change.)

[Lloyd Smale]

I agree totally with 44man other then his ugly grips ;) Rugers are very versitile guns if you buy the large framed guns. They can be loaded to levels that will turn your usfa into a bomb. Not that i dont like usfa guns. They are a very high quality piece and are great if your just going to shoot low pressure loads. About all most rugers need is a trigger job and some throating and most of the usfas ive shot needed a trigger job themselves so your talking a differnce of about 35 bucks in gunsmithing. If you go 44mag instead of 45 colt you will usually get a much more accurate out of the box ruger. Ive allways said if i only had a bisley vaquero in 44 mag with a 4 5/8s barrel it would cover just about all my handgunning.
Nothing against the USFA, wonderful gun and I would love to have a few.
Most Ruger .45's need the throats reamed or lapped and a trigger job, but will shoot like this with a job you can do yourself and not spend a penny.
5 shots at 50 yards and the gun has done 1" at 75 yards too.

[44man]

I agree totally with 44man other then his ugly grips ;) Rugers are very versitile guns if you buy the large framed guns. They can be loaded to levels that will turn your usfa into a bomb. Not that i dont like usfa guns. They are a very high quality piece and are great if your just going to shoot low pressure loads. About all most rugers need is a trigger job and some throating and most of the usfas ive shot needed a trigger job themselves so your talking a differnce of about 35 bucks in gunsmithing. If you go 44mag instead of 45 colt you will usually get a much more accurate out of the box ruger. Ive allways said if i only had a bisley vaquero in 44 mag with a 4 5/8s barrel it would cover just about all my handgunning.
:mrgreen: Those ugly grips have a purpose! My hunting loads kick as much as a .454 or .475 and the trigger guard gets nasty. Most of my friends could never do more then 6 shots either. Some quit after ONE! :Fire:

[cajun shooter]

Fella's let me say that some of you are reading extra into what was posted. When Bill Ruger was alive I think that Ruger was one of the best guns made. The company has fell in my mind since his death. I had the pleasure of attending one of Ruger's Law Enforcement Schools in the late 80's. I was a fan of Ruger then and still am on some guns. The reason our department sent me was that I told them the security-six and it's like were guns that should be ok'ed for carry. When I said that the USFA were better guns I was and am talking when compared to the ones offered by Ruger for cowboy shooting" ONLY". Why would I buy a USFA to shoot full house anything is beyond me. You also can't compare a USFA with any modern day plastic semi-auto pistol like a Glock!! Good Day people wake up and read before you are so quick to strike back at anyone who post against Ruger. When I was selling guns for a living I would always tell the wife wanting to buy her husband a DEER RIFLE to buy the plain 77, a great rifle. The number 1 is my favorite and used a 22-250 to blow up a lot of crows. The Red Label guns are one fantastic piece. In the ruger school we took a security six and threw it on the concrete hard. We dropped it from 4-6 feet. We tossed it 50 yds on road bed and for a final I spun out with it under the tire of my Jeep. It was placed dead on the cylinder. The gun would still spin and fire all 6 rounds. I know of no other gun that would take that and still fire" NONE!!" My posting was about people buying a Ruger and then spending a lot of money to turn it into something that worked like a USFA or COLT. Period

[Heavy lead]

I don't know what the fuss is all about. I have one, just one gun in my safe I've never touched as far as doing no work at all on. Sure some of the work was tailoring the firearm to suit myself, but mostly trigger jobs, replace sights, scope ring reaming, ring lapping, spring changes, glass bedding, free floating, fire lapping, cold slug lapping, polishing chambers, reaming chambers, replacing stocks, replacing grips. I just don't get it. Now if the barrel needs turning or something, yeah I agree, it's a problem, cylinder reaming shouldn't be necessary either. But look at how much a firearm costs now compared to 100 years ago, not in dollar costs, but in wages. Way, way cheaper today, as is demand way higher. Quality problems lately might not have anything to do with Mr. Ruger being gone, but simply horsing products through the line so heavy. Who knows.

Oh, that one gun is a Kimber 8400 .300 Winchester Short Mag.

[Dale53]

High price and "sterling" reputation doesn't necessarily guarantee perfection, contrary to a lot of "hype" stated in the magazines.

Let me give you an example:
A number of years ago, I was shooting a lot of heavy (but safe) loads in my .44 Magnums. I also had, and shot very well, a .375 JDJ (SSK barrel) TC Contender. I was considering the purchase of a Freedom Arms .454 Casull. A friend had one and let me shoot it. It WAS interesting. However, the trigger needed work. I asked him about this. He showed me the Freedom Arms catalog. The revolver was $1500, as I remember, but to get a good trigger you had to ask for it and pay another $75.00. This was when Rugers were selling for $250. I just looked at Freedom Arms web site, today. The .454 is $2100.00 and a GOOD TRIGGER ( THREE LBS) WILL COST YOU AN ADDITIONAL $92.00!!

That was such a turnoff to me that I didn't order one and don't have one to this day. I'll just get a Ruger "Kit" gun, spend another $35.00 (local pistol smith) for a trigger job or do it myself. Since I am a shooter, I only demand excellent shooting performance. My guns don't have to impress someone else they only have to impress me - and that is with performance.

With a little tuning, the Rugers do it for me.

Let me give you a little personal back ground so that you know "where I am coming from":

I have been a competitive shooter in many disciplines since 1954. I started out with a Winchester Model 52 smallbore rifle. That was the best target rifle that money could buy. I had to glass bed it to gain optimal performance. Later, the best Varmint rifle (for accuracy) other than custom rifles were Remington Model 700 rifles. I owned several of them and each and every one of them was a stellar performer (AFTER I tuned the trigger and glass bedded them). You see where I am going with this? When I got into IPSC, I had to have two 1911's "built up" - there was NO suitable platform available for ANY amount of money except from a custom gunsmith (there were no Kimbers, Wilsons, Browns, etc). With the i911, you even threw away the new barrel and started over.

I won't bore you further. However, it has ALWAYS been that way. If you want a superior performer, you have to take a factory new gun and do some work on it. The Rugers have been an excellent platform to work with because, when you get finished) it will work forever! That is a valuable attribute. The original Colts needed lots of maintenance, regularly. Look at today's Cowboy shooter. He pays an outrageous price for a Colt SAA. Then he has to send it to somebody, pay a LOT of money JUST TO GET IT TO WORK RELIABLY!

I DO agree, that for a slight increase in cost, Ruger could put a good trigger on their guns and there is little excuse for undersize cylinder throats. However, on the other side of that coin is that most of the Ruger purchasers couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, REGARDLESS. If the factory "Plays to the crowd" they don't HAVE to do those things to sell everything that they can make. I have talked to Ruger people for years, and their biggest problem is finding enough skilled workers to meet the demand AS THEY ARE BUILT TODAY! There is not really a big incentive to improve their product to satisfy the bean counters.

So, under the circumstances I find myself in today (comparing available products and looking for best VALUES) Ruger represents VALUE to me.

My latest acquistion is a perfect example. Ruger Lipsey Special (flattop in .44 Special). List price $579.00. Street price was under $500.00. Say I have to spend $75.00 for a trigger job (I will do it myself). At any rate, for less than $600.00 I have a dern near WONDERFUL revolver that will last me and my family for generations WITHOUT WORKING ON THEM AGAIN. It shoots under 1" at 25 yards, is in a useful caliber and has WONDERFUL lines. Oh, and by the way, it has adjustable sights so I can sight it in for a variety of ammunition (try that with your fixed sighted revovlers).

Rant over but it HAS been fun:drinks:.

At the end of the day. let YOUR money do your talking and buy whatever turns you on. We all have different priorities and I recognize that. Some go for "Bling", some go for Glory, but poor old me, I go for performance and appreciate VALUE, also.

Heading for the bomb shelter...

Dala53

[44man]

Fella's let me say that some of you are reading extra into what was posted. When Bill Ruger was alive I think that Ruger was one of the best guns made. The company has fell in my mind since his death. I had the pleasure of attending one of Ruger's Law Enforcement Schools in the late 80's. I was a fan of Ruger then and still am on some guns. The reason our department sent me was that I told them the security-six and it's like were guns that should be ok'ed for carry. When I said that the USFA were better guns I was and am talking when compared to the ones offered by Ruger for cowboy shooting" ONLY". Why would I buy a USFA to shoot full house anything is beyond me. You also can't compare a USFA with any modern day plastic semi-auto pistol like a Glock!! Good Day people wake up and read before you are so quick to strike back at anyone who post against Ruger. When I was selling guns for a living I would always tell the wife wanting to buy her husband a DEER RIFLE to buy the plain 77, a great rifle. The number 1 is my favorite and used a 22-250 to blow up a lot of crows. The Red Label guns are one fantastic piece. In the ruger school we took a security six and threw it on the concrete hard. We dropped it from 4-6 feet. We tossed it 50 yds on road bed and for a final I spun out with it under the tire of my Jeep. It was placed dead on the cylinder. The gun would still spin and fire all 6 rounds. I know of no other gun that would take that and still fire" NONE!!" My posting was about people buying a Ruger and then spending a lot of money to turn it into something that worked like a USFA or COLT. Period
Not so, I understood you and also understood that cowboy shooters like the hammer clicks. You are correct that they should just buy the USFA.
But Trifocals said he had a problem. There is always a reason and I wanted to show it could be fixed without spending money. Yes, I had to lap throats and do a trigger job but cost was "0" unless you count a few cents for sandpaper.
Look at the guys that buy a Ruger and send it off to turn it into a .475 or something, thousands of dollars spent when a BFR is already a big Ruger. The little gun is easier to carry but recoil beats the guy so much, he never shoots it enough to be able to use it. They complain about 2 oz more to carry with a larger gun or longer barrel if they have to walk a mile. I have to laugh when compared to what our soldiers had to carry into battle for years.
I think it is funny that I am almost 72 and think nothing of carrying an 11 pound Hawken all day and never notice if a revolver weighs 6# or 3#. I don't care if the barrel is 7-1/2" or 10", I don't want no stinking 2" barrel. Look at the weight that could be saved by dumping all the candy bars out of pockets! The same guy has a 12" knife, a 6" knife, a 3" knife and a stone all in one sheath but will bitch about the gun! :Fire:
Now what I would like to see is a rule that cowboy shooters should be required to use real loads, not little, no recoil 3 year old girly stuff. I call them the powder puff crowd! Fancy dudes with spurs but have never been on a horse. Lilly white hands that are still wrinkled from dishwater and cork shooting guns. It is just a fun game with nothing to do with real shooting, just looking for that advantage to shoot faster by cutting recoil to zero. Them fancy clothes should be covered in mud, dust and horse sweat, boots should smell like horse poop and guns should kick! :drinks:
It is like the stupid game of basketball, find the tallest man on earth to play without ever raising the hoop.
Same as the handicap system where a poor shooter gets points. Years ago I shot a 292 out of 300 field archery course but lost to a jerk with a huge handicap that scored 40 points over possible because he sandbagged all year.
Half the cowboy shooters would break their wrists with real guns! :mrgreen:
How tight do I have to hold on now? :bigsmyl2:

[Dale53]

44man;
You just do NOT understand[smilie=1:. When you think of Cowboy shooters, just think of the old comedy show "Frasier" - Cowboy shooters are Niles, Frasier's wimpy little brother :kidding:.

I did serious back packing, for years. I would be gone for nine days (I only had one week vacations and used it with both weekends) at a time, totally self contained (all food, stove {couldn't light a fire in many areas}, shelter, and clothing for VERY changeable weather and did it in the Appalachian mountains. I didn't have to fight altitude too much (high of 6000 feet) but did contend with the weather and did it winter and summer.

So, when I started hunting with a handgun, weight just didn't enter in to it (I hunted with both an 8 3/8" S&W and a 7½" RedHawk). Both guns had scopes, also. They were strictly two handed operations but I was certain on deer, in fleld positions to at least 125 yards. As it turned out the longest two shots I took on deer were 85 and 75 long paces. However, in both cases I hit within an inch or so of where I was holding. You don't get THAT with a snubbie!:mrgreen:

I carried both of my revolvers in a across the chest Bianchi Hush System. Frankly, I never knew I had them on. I also carried a day pack with a brush knife and a portable blind as well as food for the day, etc on many occasions. Many times I carried a back packing stove with me during cold weather. Hey, you know the drill.

When I was shotgun bird hunting, however, i preferred a smaller revolver for sitting rabbits and clipping the heads off wounded grouse (the little fellers could run like a deer and were prone to denning up in the thickest brush in the world if you didn't head them off). However, I have often carried a 6½" barreled revolver carried cross draw (to avoid banging the stock of the shotgun on the revolver). A four inch barreled revolver was the best arrangement in that category (still carried cross draw).

When I did a LOT of fly fishing, even on "Tourist" streams that were HEAVILY fished, if you were willing to walk a half mile (that's right, just a half mile) from the nearest car park, you nearly always had "virgin" territory to fish. People, in general, don't seem to be willing to put forth much effort in pursuit of their "game". Of course, most on here are not "most" people...

So, I have to say, that in general I, most reluctantly :kidding: have to pretty much agree with you on MANY points.

Dale53

[BruceB]

This is a Ruger thread, but I must say that 44man nailed it with his comments about most Cowboy Action shooting. I know some of these shooters, and the ones I know are REAL shooters, with REAL loads (many in full-power blackpowder guise) and original-type techniques. These folks, I respect.

I have met too many others, with the glitter and the black clothes, with shining leather and boots, or expensive "period" clothing, and worst of all, a "gunfighter attitude" to rival that of the IPSC crowd, which so disgusted me that I simply stopped participating. The ego involvement is astonishing.

Now, Rugers....having used Ruger rifles and handguns for upwards of forty years now, I must say I've had very few quibbles with the product. I'm not the fella who asks-for or needs my handguns to shoot like rifles, but our OM Super Blackhawks were at least competitive in IHMSA revolver class. Our .22 autos, rifle and pistol. always worked well with proper maintenance even into DEEP sub-zero cold, and hit what needed hitting. Our 77s and #1s still function fine and shoot very accurately. I consider the Ruger marque to be a very respectable one.

I just bought a brand-new Mini-14 "Deluxe" (Circassian walnut stock) and it's worked flawlessly through the first several hundred rounds (all handloads) with accuracy still nudging tighter and tighter...now under 2" for TEN rounds at 100 yards and developing. Also, for what it is, this is a beautifully finished rifle in the bargain.

No Ruger of ours has ever been back to the factory. When the New Model single-actions came out, I took the precaution of laying-in a few OM triggers, hammers and small parts, and have yet to use a single one. I DID install a Belt Mountain basepin in one OM .44, but that's it.

With any luck at all, I expect my good fortune with Rugers to continue.

[TAWILDCATT]

I have been lucky I bought a mod 10 bull barrel and had bomar rib put on.very acurat gun used it in comp. the rib $75 the gun $60,that included the police holster and belt.bought a AMT long slide $250 used that in comp.never jammed.
got the ruger black hawk $213 new.the chambers are good.checked them and they are .451.the trigger may be heavy I dont know its not a Smith or my 1911.
but it shoots.
I dont think that they train machinists or operaters.I grad from Wentworth on the GI bill.after WW2.in the south they must be scarce as hens teeth not so in new England.I found two machin shops in two counties. in Mass I could find a shop in a dozen garages.we need machinists.thats what is wrong and even on these sites people have no clue on working out problems.I dont complain when something does not work I figure whats wrong and fixit.so gent join the crowd were surrounded.
I showed some people my garand what a heavy gun.I though gee that does not count a heavy belt with 100 rds two bandaleers with 48 each a canteen a gas mask bayonet,first aid kit pack ect.none of these people could survive.:coffee:[smilie=1:

[Dale53]

I spent five years in the Ohio National Guard (SFC., Infantry) - you think that might have something to do with my attitude? I was stationed at Ft. Lee, Va (while I was in Depot Supply School) and got a ride to Knoxvillet, TN to visit my, then, girl friend who was teaching at Maryville College (Maryville is 16 miles from Knoxville). It was about 2:30 A.M. The bus station was open but they told me that the bus didn't run until 7:00 A.M. I thought that I might as well walk (heck, that is all I did in the Army - and NOT on paved roads :mrgreen:). I grabbed my AWOL bag and started walking. Three hours and 12 miles later, some Marines picked me up (I was in uniform) and dropped me at Maryville. I walked on Campus as the birds were waking up. I think that I impressed my girlfriend, too. She later married me.:drinks:

I don't know if it's going to last - we have only been married 51 years. It is a bit early to tell...[smilie=1:

Back on topic - the size and weight of most handguns do not bother me when actively hunting. They ALL seem so much more convenient than a rifle that I GLORY in carrying them. The only time it becomes important at all is when I am just rambling. Then, I admit, something like a good Ruger 5½" Lipsey Special seems pretty special (even tho' it is NOT a lightweight).

Dale53

[hammerhead357]

Men I have enjoyed this thread very much. The information some of you have is great. The years of experience cannot be duplicated. Hell I am just a piker here at 57 and only been involved in reloading and casting for about 37 years. Shooting for more like 50 but I am still learning......Wes
Oh yes, Dale congratulations on a long marriage you have a very understanding spouse....

[Trifocals]

Well gentlemen, I knew when I started this thread that it would generate a huge backlash. But that was not it's intent or purpose. I am 75 years old, a former competitive handgun shooter (still able to shoot reasonably well) and a home shop machinist. To clarify my original post a bit, let me mention a few items re: Ruger SA revolvers. Chamber throats way too small or way too large or a combination of both, base pin fit extremely sloppy, forcing cone problems, barrel to cylinder gap far to large (at times the rear of the barrel filed off at an angle), internals of the action filled with rust, sprung frames. Yes, I have encountered each of these problems with new, out of the box Rugers. Sometimes a small expenditure of time and/or money will correct the problem(s), but when a single gun has so many problems it would take a major rebuild to correct everything it's just not worth it. When they are returned to Ruger and come back with no problems corrected and a letter stating everything is within factory specs it, certainly turns me off to the product. Insofar as my "new" USFA not being able to handle the hot loads that the Rugers can, I am fully aware of that. If all I was interested in shooting day in, day out was super hot cape buffalo slaying loads I wouldn't have elected to trade into the USFA. My interest was to obtain an out of the box SA revolver that is built correctly and speaks quality. The USFA Rodeo met that criteria. In .45 Colt caliber with the right bullet, I feel that it can down any deer that is properly hit. If I feel the need or desire to shoot hot loads, I have several Dan Wesson's and a TC Contender with multiple barrels, or I will purchase a Freedom Arms in an appropriate caliber. The gun shop I frequent employs 3 very competent gunsmiths, one of whom specializes in handgun work. You would be amazed to hear him tell of the problems he encounters with new out of the box Rugers and of the special gunsmiths seminar he has attended dealing with Ruger guns problems and their poor QC. In defense of Ruger, I recently purchased one of the new Ruger Lipsey's .44 special revolvers, after my gunsmith friend checked it out and said it was built correctly. Apparently Lipsey's demanded QC far above what Ruger normally produces. To clarify my original post, I will state that henceforth I will only purchase a Ruger revolver that has been checked out by myself or my gunsmith and that is not plagued with expensive to correct problems. S'nuff said!

[Lloyd Smale]

cowboy action shooter=yuppy with a black hat. Sorry for being so cold but i once showed up at a shoot figureing to give it a try and they wouldnt let me shoot because i was wearing levis and a t shirt and a ball cap and a pair of redwings. . Told the guy that levis were around when real cowboys still existed but he said if he let me shoot like that that others would too and it would ruin his show! Now i wanted to choke him but walked away figuring if this sport was nothing but dressing up and being a wanabee i wanted nothing to do with it. I dont think ive heard of any dress code in the old west. Ive also not seen to many cowboys shooting single action 38 specials and i doubt if many lever guns of the day saw short stroke kits and i know there wasnt a cowboy alive that downloaded his ammo so he could shoot faster!! Big joke if you ask me!!

[pdawg_shooter]

Well gentlemen, I knew when I started this thread that it would generate a huge backlash. But that was not it's intent or purpose. I am 75 years old, a former competitive handgun shooter (still able to shoot reasonably well) and a home shop machinist. To clarify my original post a bit, let me mention a few items re: Ruger SA revolvers. Chamber throats way too small or way too large or a combination of both, base pin fit extremely sloppy, forcing cone problems, barrel to cylinder gap far to large (at times the rear of the barrel filed off at an angle), internals of the action filled with rust, sprung frames. Yes, I have encountered each of these problems with new, out of the box Rugers. Sometimes a small expenditure of time and/or money will correct the problem(s), but when a single gun has so many problems it would take a major rebuild to correct everything it's just not worth it. When they are returned to Ruger and come back with no problems corrected and a letter stating everything is within factory specs it, certainly turns me off to the product. Insofar as my "new" USFA not being able to handle the hot loads that the Rugers can, I am fully aware of that. If all I was interested in shooting day in, day out was super hot cape buffalo slaying loads I wouldn't have elected to trade into the USFA. My interest was to obtain an out of the box SA revolver that is built correctly and speaks quality. The USFA Rodeo met that criteria. In .45 Colt caliber with the right bullet, I feel that it can down any deer that is properly hit. If I feel the need or desire to shoot hot loads, I have several Dan Wesson's and a TC Contender with multiple barrels, or I will purchase a Freedom Arms in an appropriate caliber. The gun shop I frequent employs 3 very competent gunsmiths, one of whom specializes in handgun work. You would be amazed to hear him tell of the problems he encounters with new out of the box Rugers and of the special gunsmiths seminar he has attended dealing with Ruger guns problems and their poor QC. In defense of Ruger, I recently purchased one of the new Ruger Lipsey's .44 special revolvers, after my gunsmith friend checked it out and said it was built correctly. Apparently Lipsey's demanded QC far above what Ruger normally produces. To clarify my original post, I will state that henceforth I will only purchase a Ruger revolver that has been checked out by myself or my gunsmith and that is not plagued with expensive to correct problems. S'nuff said!

I was a dealer and smith for over 20 years and I HATED to sell a Ruger. They had more come-backs that all others combined.

[Dale53]

Trifocals;
It is hard to argue with this post...well said!

Dale53

[targetshootr]

He showed me the Freedom Arms catalog. The revolver was $1500, as I remember, but to get a good trigger you had to ask for it and pay another $75.00. This was when Rugers were selling for $250. I just looked at Freedom Arms web site, today. The .454 is $2100.00 and a GOOD TRIGGER ( THREE LBS) WILL COST YOU AN ADDITIONAL $92.00!!
Dala53

And whenever he sells it he'll take a loss of about 1/3, maybe more. Like when you drive a new car off the lot, money flies out the window. But you can get most of your money out of a Ruger even if it needs a little work.

l sent two old model flat tops to the factory when the ejector studs came off. Ruger replaced it, reblue the gun, put on a higher front sight and replaced the rear sights and didn't charge a dime, even for shipping. I can't say that about USFA. They made me pay shipping both ways when the barrel on my Rodeo needed to be turned and it was brand new at the time.

[Dale53]

I would like to clarify what I said about the Freedom Arms revolvers. I have no problem with the initial cost - this is touted to be a CUSTOM revolver. The most accurate, "anywhere, anywho" but after asking $2100 you are expected to pay another hundred dollars to get a good trigger? Sorry, I just cannot handle that.

Anyway, while Rugers are perhaps not my favorites (I reserve that for my Smiths) they sure do represent excellent value and when you have done a bit of tuning, they can be awesome revolvers, and that, my friends is a FACT!

I have had disappointments with a number of guns over the years. I had a very good friend buy an S&W Chiefs Special when they were in very short supply (and priced accordingly). This WONDERFUL little revolver would not even chamber brand new factory loads - couldn't close the cylinder. There ws insufficient headspace for that to occur. How's THAT for "Ripley, Believe it or not?". When I bought my Ruger Red Hawk (a few months after they were introduced) I doubled up with a friend (we got a better price buying two). Mine had a terrible trigger (which I fixed) but his would not FIRE! Yep, that's true, it would not fire. He called Ruger, sent it back and they gave him a two week turn around (we both still have them and they have proved to be fine pieces). We have both taken deer with ours.

So, "Crap" happens. Ruger has fixed our problems as had Smith. No, it shouldn't have happened - not even once, but it did. We dealt with it.

The problem with too many of us, particularly the youngest among us, is that little adversity has fallen our way and minor stuff looms LARGE in our lives. Last year, I went to my son's mustering out ceremony last year (twenty years with the Army as a medical officer {full bird Colonel} and the last few years with Delta Force).

I met active duty men with missing limbs. They are STILL jumping out of planes in the worst hot spots in the world one legged, etc. May be among the finest bunch of men the world has ever seen. One legged, they still meet the severe physical qualifications of one of the most Special fighting forces in the world. Now, THEY know what adversity is and it is NOT a bad trigger on a new gun...

Just to MAYBE put a bit of perspective to this discussion.

Dale53

[jack19512]

All I can say is I am a Ruger fan and will continue to be one. My SBH 44 mag was back at Ruger for almost 3 months for repair but it has as far as I can tell come back to me right and that is all I had hoped for.

Now I will never be as good of a shot as some on this board when it comes to a handgun and I am about one of the worst gunsmiths you would ever want to meet so if I had a competent gunsmith available to me I wouldn't care to pay to have what ever work I needed done, but I don't have any available to me.

So, I am in the same position so many are in when I do purchase a new firearm I need to at least have it reasonably right, my last 44 mag wasn't even close. Thankfully Ruger did make it right for me.

I continue to read of others that have had very good luck and I am glad for you but for anyone doubting that there are not a lot of Rugers being returned for warranty work I just don't know what to say to you. For some reason my problems have been with the 44 mag single action revolvers. The last two that I have purchased new had to be sent back for repairs. As long as Ruger is willing to make it right I will continue to buy them.

[jack19512]

I would like to say that I would love to live near some of you guys that can do this kind of work on these revolvers. Wouldn't mind at all paying you for the work you performed. I might just have to learn to do this myself, but every time I learn something new I forget something else. :-D

[unclebill]

cowboy action shooter=yuppy with a black hat. Sorry for being so cold but i once showed up at a shoot figureing to give it a try and they wouldnt let me shoot because i was wearing levis and a t shirt and a ball cap and a pair of redwings. . Told the guy that levis were around when real cowboys still existed but he said if he let me shoot like that that others would too and it would ruin his show! Now i wanted to choke him but walked away figuring if this sport was nothing but dressing up and being a wanabee i wanted nothing to do with it. I dont think ive heard of any dress code in the old west. Ive also not seen to many cowboys shooting single action 38 specials and i doubt if many lever guns of the day saw short stroke kits and i know there wasnt a cowboy alive that downloaded his ammo so he could shoot faster!! Big joke if you ask me!!

yep
i refuse to play dressup and wear anything i wouldnt wear to the bar.
and my loads are for shooting real badguys/indians:mrgreen:

[jh45gun]

Nothing against the USFA, wonderful gun and I would love to have a few.
Most Ruger .45's need the throats reamed or lapped and a trigger job, but will shoot like this with a job you can do yourself and not spend a penny.
5 shots at 50 yards and the gun has done 1" at 75 yards too.

AS you know that is my complaint with Rugers WHY should you or anyone else have to fix what they should have in the first place!

Also 44 man great you know how to fix them but I suspect many would not. I know I would not have the guts to attack my guns with sandpaper to get them to shoot. Which is why I suppose I do not own any Rugers anymore.

[machinisttx]

I do not understand why ruger will not grind a proper reamer for throats on .45 Colt. They are aware of the problem, and it's well known among shooters. I fixed mine on a Sunnen honing machine by honing the throats to .452, but Brownells offers a reamer kit to do the same thing. link to reamer (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=7700/Product/REVOLVER_CYLINDER_THROATING_REAMER)

In all honesty, the same thing could be done with a standard .4525 reamer from any machinist tool supplier for significantly less money. Should it have to be done by the purchaser, or someone employed by him, no.

Cult Firearms(commonly known as Colt) have suffered from many more dimensional problems than Ruger, and command heavy premiums despite that. It doesn't make sense to me. :-?

[44man]

Yeah, it is a big gripe with me too as to why they don't make it right to start with. Now more important then ever because of price increases. I would buy nothing but BFR's now because they actually reduced prices and are not a heck of a lot more then a Ruger.
But when they were cheap, a little work on them was OK as long as I could do it. Once fixed, the guns last forever.
My first .44 Ruger was $96 and it came in the mail from Klein's sporting goods in Chicago. My first Mark I was $37.50. They shot like a house afire!

[odis]

Yeah, it is a big gripe with me too as to why they don't make it right to start with. Now more important then ever because of price increases. I would buy nothing but BFR's now because they actually reduced prices and are not a heck of a lot more then a Ruger.
But when they were cheap, a little work on them was OK as long as I could do it. Once fixed, the guns last forever.
My first .44 Ruger was $96 and it came in the mail from Klein's sporting goods in Chicago. My first Mark I was $37.50. They shot like a house afire!

BFR's are still not cheap in comparison to a Ruger Black Hawk .45 simply because you can't buy one off the shelf. But they are an economical alternative to a custom five shot Ruger or a FA. The one that I just recieved from the Prec. center cost 1600.00 because the had to cut a custom cylinder in .45, if I wanted a 475 Linebaugh or a 454 Casull it would have been 300.00 cheaper. Thats $1300.00 for a 475 Linebaugh with a much thicker frame than a custom Ruger! not to mention a fitted cylinder with a miniscule cylinder gap, 11 deg. forcing cone, smooth lite trigger and a target crown on the end of the barrel. Now that's real economy.

[Trifocals]

Well Gents, I finally found time to test fire the USFA Rodeo .45 Colt that I mentioned I had traded a Ruger Vaquero for, in the first post of this thread. The ammo was Winchester 255 gr lead round nose flat point (factory ammo). I only had time to fire five rounds as I was short of time and had to adjust a Crimson Trace laser on a Glock 27. The USFA Rodeo was fired at 25 yds.. Three shots overlapping and two shots overlapping about one half inch to the right of the first three shots. Had I done my part, all five would have been in one ragged hole. The group was 3 inches high for elevation and perfect for windage. All I can say is the Rodeo exceeded my expectations, right out of the box. It's definetly a keeper. It made the Ruger Vaquero I traded for it look like a pile of scrap iron, performance wise. I can't wait to try some good serious handloads in the Rodeo. I have a strong hunch that several more of my Rugers will be finding new homes. [smilie=w:

[targetshootr]

Well Gents, I finally found time to test fire the USFA Rodeo .45 Colt that I mentioned I had traded a Ruger Vaquero for, in the first post of this thread. The ammo was Winchester 255 gr lead round nose flat point (factory ammo). I only had time to fire five rounds as I was short of time and had to adjust a Crimson Trace laser on a Glock 27. The USFA Rodeo was fired at 25 yds.. Three shots overlapping and two shots overlapping about one half inch to the right of the first three shots. Had I done my part, all five would have been in one ragged hole. The group was 3 inches high for elevation and perfect for windage. All I can say is the Rodeo exceeded my expectations, right out of the box. It's definetly a keeper. It made the Ruger Vaquero I traded for it look like a pile of scrap iron, performance wise. I can't wait to try some good serious handloads in the Rodeo. I have a strong hunch that several more of my Rugers will be finding new homes. [smilie=w:

They're nice but they have drawbacks. One being leaf springs and when the one on my pawl broke, I took it apart and found out it needs to be hammered out or filed out. Apparently it's slid into the slot and then peened over. I could ream six chamber throats on any of my Ruger 45's in half the time this will take.

[44man]

They're nice but they have drawbacks. One being leaf springs and when the one on my pawl broke, I took it apart and found out it needs to be hammered out or filed out. Apparently it's slid into the slot and then peened over. I could ream six chamber throats on any of my Ruger 45's in half the time this will take.
Cowboys carried all kinds of spare parts for Colts, triggers, hammers, springs, etc. It was, is and always will be a poor design and almost impossible to do a trigger job on.
At least a Ruger or BFR will last a lifetime 10 times over without parts breaking when you are 1000 miles away on a hunt. The worst thing I ever did with a Ruger was letting the grip frame screws get loose so they sheared with heavy boolits. Makes a guy smart with a screwdriver fast! :bigsmyl2:

[Frank]

Trifocals wrote
The USFA Rodeo was fired at 25 yds.. Three shots overlapping and two shots overlapping about one half inch to the right of the first three shots. Had I done my part, all five would have been in one ragged hole.
That's great. I don't know why everybody likes Ruger so much. :violin:

[targetshootr]

Cowboys carried all kinds of spare parts for Colts, triggers, hammers, springs, etc. It was, is and always will be a poor design and almost impossible to do a trigger job on.
At least a Ruger or BFR will last a lifetime 10 times over without parts breaking when you are 1000 miles away on a hunt. The worst thing I ever did with a Ruger was letting the grip frame screws get loose so they sheared with heavy boolits. Makes a guy smart with a screwdriver fast! :bigsmyl2:

Makes you feel for those real cowboys, huh. I think the thing to do is send any Colt or clone to be upgraded to coil springs so it runs like a Ruger. But with all the money you'd have in it you could buy two Rugers.

[Newtire]

I have some older Rugers - an original OM Super Blackhawk and a Ruger Redhawk. Neither had an acceptable trigger. I did a trigger job on them both and they are still here.

I DO wish they would fix the triggers. Good grief, S&W learned how to produce nearly every revolver they sent out the door with near perfect triggers over a hundred years ago....

FWIW

Dale53

Hi Dale,
What I want to know is how to go about fixing a Ruger Trigger pull?

Is there any way you could give a detaied description? (and no I won't sue anyone if I shoot my big toe off!)

Sorry Trifocals, don't mean to hi-jack this thread!

[Dale53]

Newtire;
I do NOT have a systematic approach to improving the Rugers. However, that said, here is what I have done in the past and currently am doing with my Ruger .44 Lipsey Special along with it's companion, the 50th Anniversary .44 Magnum.

First, of all I dismantle the firing system (remove the mainspring, trigger return spring, hammer and trigger). You can find the answer to your dismantling problems here:

http://www.rugerforum.net/showthread.php?t=10453

Download the PDF and read it carefully.

Without changing angles (VERY important) I carefully stone the trigger sear until it is absolutely smooth (Iowegan suggests buffing it until it shines like chrome).

Here is another GOOD source of information on trigger work on the SA Rugers:

http://www.realguns.com/archives/012.htm

Note: the author was disappointed in the jigs he tried to use. I have not used the jigs. If you are careful, you can get along without a good jig and you do NOT need a bad jig:twisted:. So, no jigs for me. Frankly, since I have only worked on a few revolversw over the years, I couldn't justify a jig's price, anyway.

I would finally add, to be VERY careful when working on the sear surface on the hammer. Follow the advice in the "Real Guns" archives carefully.

I follow the suggestions given in Real Guns (some I had been doing many, many years before there was a Real Guns) as they are lined out pretty dern good by the author.

I suggest you plan on "cut and try, cut and try" going very slowly and NOT going past the point of no return. Hammers and triggers are EXPENSIVE. I also bend the trigger return spring to keep return drag from occurring (in the loop end) and reduce the trigger pull on the two legs. This is relatively easy to do and doesn't put uneven spring pressure on the trigger sear as the "poor boy's trigger job" does (by releasing one of the legs on the trigger return spring).

You have two alternatives to the above:

1 - Send to a good gunsmith (can cost upwards of two hundred dollars.

2 - Buy a Powers Custom hammer and trigger and hope that it works
(I haven't done this but have heard good reports) $200 +.

Me? I choose to help myself.

I do NOT reduce the mainspring strength, either by replacing with a lighter spring or reducing coils. This increases lock time and NO single action needs slower lock time:mrgreen:. Most of the trigger pull weight lies in the trigger return spring.

Have fun! Above all, be SAFE! I keep my field revolvers at no less than 3.0 lbs.

Dale53

[jh45gun]

Cowboys carried all kinds of spare parts for Colts, triggers, hammers, springs, etc. It was, is and always will be a poor design and almost impossible to do a trigger job on.

If it is such a poor design why did ruger copy it with the exception of coil springs which was a CHEAPER way to go.

I dont think it is a poor design and I suspect others do not as well.