PP .58 cal. mini's

[stuffy25thia]

I tried PPing some of my .58 cal. mini's this summer. Started with a .578 trashcan mini, sized it down to .575. Then two wraps of paper, ran it thru a .577 sizer. Shot it over 40 grains of FFF black powder.
First shot was in the ten ring, I thought, I like these. 2nd shot was low, in the 7 ring, thought bummer. When I went to load my 3rd round, I seen the paper patch was still on the ram rod, so there was the reason for the 7 ring shot. Took more time to load my last three shots, they were all touching the first shot in the ten ring. This was done at 50 yards, off hand, using my Zoli made 1863 Remington musket. Score of 47 out of a possible 50.

[Buckshot]

..............I shoot PP'd slugs in my Whitworth and Gibbs 45 caliber match rifles (muzzle loaders).

http://www.fototime.com/F5B2831828DBFE3/standard.jpg

I tried PP's Minie' bullets in my P58 Enfield once. It wasn't really much of a test as a friend had sent me the slugs (a few) and I patched them up. IIRC they were .564" OD and I had to use 20# paper to get them just shy of .580" for a good fit in the barrel.

I think my problem was not using a heavy enough charge. The P58 has 5 lands and grooves of equal width. The grooves are proggressive depth, and about 0.010" deep at the breech. Couple the deep grooves with their narrow width (compared to a 3 groove barrel) and I just don't think they were fully upsetting. A heavier charge, or perhaps a larger OD slug with thinner paper may also worked?

................Buckshot

[docone31]

Either that, or fouling is tearing the patch.
When I use Minie's, I fire three, then ram a R.E.A.L. down the bore. My groups come back then.
Might be the same thing here.
It sure looks like the wrapping part is there! Good looking projectiles.
Hat is off there for sure. Leave it to a machineist to do some wrapping!
It sure sounds like fouling. The first shot showed this.
Every once in again, I use fine lapping compound for lube in the R.E.A.L.s. Makes a big difference for me.
I got my wife an used CVA Hawken Dikkert style in .54. Half way down the bore there was some real resistance to the patch. A couple of R.E.A.L.s with lapping compound and they slide real easily. Good clean bore. Someone years ago had probably cleaned it and put it in the closet.
With the patch being on the ramrod, is something cutting the base paper?
They look real good.
Are they hollow point, or is something in the nose?

[59sharps]

I tried PPing some of my .58 cal. mini's this summer. Started with a .578 trashcan mini, sized it down to .575. Then two wraps of paper, ran it thru a .577 sizer. Shot it over 40 grains of FFF black powder.
First shot was in the ten ring, I thought, I like these. 2nd shot was low, in the 7 ring, thought bummer. When I went to load my 3rd round, I seen the paper patch was still on the ram rod, so there was the reason for the 7 ring shot. Took more time to load my last three shots, they were all touching the first shot in the ten ring. This was done at 50 yards, off hand, using my Zoli made 1863 Remington musket. Score of 47 out of a possible 50.
Silly ?? why do you want to PP a minnie. in a zoli.
size .001-002 under bore lube w/ 50/50 beeswax olive oil and have at it.
a lot less time and work in my book.

[montana_charlie]

The examples I have seen of paper patches for muzzleloaders were two strips of paper laid in an X on the muzzle. The bullet was rammed down on the center of the X, about the same as using cloth.
CM

[Baron von Trollwhack]

With several good 58 Minnie' guns over a long time span, it has been my experience that the first shot out of a cold , clean, dry barrel was invariably high at 50 yards (and other distances beyond), while subsequent shots were in the group and stayed there as long as the lube allowed good loading.

I got the same results playing with patched balls but quickly gave it up as an unneccessary bit of work for no better results.

Think 1 1/2 thousandths ball clearance, a soft, not melting lube, carefully measured charges, and uniform seating, and you can be competitive, if you remember how your gun throws that first shot.

Remember too, how well you and gun shoot and you will quickly spot nipple burnout as it opens the group. BvT